Is extract as bad as I think it is?

[iv_hokie12]

First let me say that I am very lucky I am still an avid brewer. I had been looking forward to starting for sometime, and I brewed my first batch a week after turning 21. It was a brewers best Irish Stout kit, and it was excellent. I also just finished making a HME stout which was actually pretty good. Not as good as the first, but I was exceptionally lazy on the 2nd. However I have made 3 other extract batches and all 3 were mediocre. I was starting to think that all I could brew was stouts, but since I have made 4 all grain batches with friends and all 4 have been excellent. So again. People here seem to be happy with their extract batches. Is munton's extract just really bad, or am I a bad extract brewer or what is going on?

 

[dutchoven]

Nothing wrong with extract ... Just depends on the age of the extract and the skill of the brewer ...

 

[lgilmore]

I like to brew with extract. Works well for me.

 

[mvcorliss]

Gallons and gallons of great beer have been made using extracts. Extract, esp. LME need to be as fresh as possible or bad things can happen! And like Dutchoven said, so much depends on the skill of the brewer! No place for getting lazy. Timing and temps and CLEANLINESS are just as important as with AG brews.
IMO probably more beer has "gone bad" after the brewing is done and fermentation has begun than at any other time. Pitching rates and temp and fermentation temp control make all the difference in the world. You can get away with boiling in a rusty pot over a campfire with your hops in a dirty sock, (well, sort of) but if you pitch at 80F with not enough yeast and your fermentation temps are all over the place you will get ..... dare I say it ... crappy beer!!!

 

[jsv1204]

Ditto - sounds to me like your in danger of generalizing your way out of a legit homebrew option! Too many variables here to pin it all on extract vs AG. Munton's is English, isn't it? Maybe you got into a batch that was past it's prime.

 

[dfc]

I have made close to 30 batches all of which have been extract. While two have been bad and a couple were mediocre I'd say more than 20 were good to great beers. However, I have been using a climate controlled environment since batch 3. There are a lot of variables that can cause not so pleasant beer. Temperature would be one of those main variables.

 

[House12]

All grain brewers who criticize extract tend to forget that the same people who make the extract are making their malts. If we trust them as maltsters why shouldn't we trust them as extracters?
The only problem with extract is shelf-life. If it's fresh it can make beer just as good as all grain. Don't get me wrong, all grain is still a much better way to brew if you can... But good beer is simply a matter of healthy fermentation. Good yeast > good malt.

 

[Brewskii]

In the book " Designing Great Beers" the secret it extract is to find a reliable source so it's not old, and to find one you like and stick with that. He suggests brewing several examples of pale extract and taste them before and after fermenting them to see what you like best.

He also says DME is better/more stable, use the lightest you can and use specialty grains for the flavor and, that the majority of finalist brews in competition use at least some extract.

 

[Revvy]

The methods, or whether or not it's extract or AG is not what makes great beer. The Brewer should make great beer with whatever materials at hand.

I've tasted some great extracts and I've tasted some ****ty all grain batches. It all depends on the brewer and his process. Not whether it's an AG or an extract beer. Ag is not the holy grail of brewing. If you refuse to read a hydromter, don't pay attention to temp control, don't make a yeast starter for liquid, or pitch the right amount of yeast, and follow the 1-2-3 rule regardless of whether the yeast lagged for 72 hours or not, you're going to make crappy beer regardless of it being an extract or ag batch..

And if you do all those things that the AG brewer didn't, and use the freshest extract and do a full boil and late extract addition, you're going to make great if not award winning beers. It's that simple. I think people who blame extract for their crappy beers are copping out, and maybe should considering mastering them instead of thinking ag is going to be the answer to good tasting beer....


Read this, and then just try to make the best beer you can regardless of whether you use commercially produced extract, or you do the extracting yourself...which is the only difference between the two, whether you do the extracting/converting yourself, or buy it already done.

 

[Calder]

You can make great beers with extract as well as with All-Grain.

All-grain gives you a lot more options as to base malts, and a larger variety of specialty grains, and therefore allows the brewer to make a more complex beer. This can be compensated for with a partial mash for the extract brewer.

All-grain also gives the brewer more control on the fermentability of the wort, by controlling the mash temperatures.

BUT ........ With all these variables and extra effort of the AG brewer, there is also more possibility to screw it up if the brewer doesn't pay attention to his process.

 

[MoPhunk]

In my experience it wasn't the extract that was bad. It was a partial boil, not enough stirring, topping off with sink water etc... I'm all grain now because I think it gives me less of a chance to screw things up. I've learned that the process sometimes more than the ingredients matters the most

 

[iv_hokie12]

Thanks revvy, but your- 1-2-3 rule confuses me as you are very outspoken against secondaries. Isn't your 1-2-3 rule more like a 3-3?

 

[Goose5]

Since I started brewing (extract) again my last three have been excellent. A kolsch, strong belgian ale, and a pilsner I have been very happy with. Don't think its technique. That really has not changed. The last three batches the only difference is I started using kegs. Maybe batch aging is the difference.

 

[strambo]

I'm currently partial to partial mashes! Most of the AG advantages (ability to use any base malt I want etc.), some cost savings over all extract, and yet I don't need any extra equipment and it doesn't add much time to my brew day over steeping specialty grains. I am fortunate to have 2 great LHBS nearby for inexpensive and fresh LME.

I take care to pitch the right amount of yeast, control temps with a simple water bath, do an almost full boil (as much as my stove can handle) and add all the LME late. Been working well so far...

 

[Stauffbier]

Thanks revvy, but your- 1-2-3 rule confuses me as you are very outspoken against secondaries. Isn't your 1-2-3 rule more like a 3-3?

Revvy is saying that the 1-2-3 rule is bad, because it means you're putting the yeast on your schedule. The yeast work on their own schedule, so sticking to a pre-determined time frame is not a good thing to do. 3-3 is a typical basis that a lot of brewers go by, but it's still just a basis. Your yeast will tell you when they're done with the use of your hydrometer.

 

[iv_hokie12]

Revvy is saying that the 1-2-3 rule is bad, because it means you're putting the yeast on your schedule. The yeast work on their own schedule, so sticking to a pre-determined time frame is not a good thing to do. 3-3 is a typical basis that a lot of brewers go by, but it's still just a basis. Your yeast will tell you when they're done with the use of your hydrometer.

Oh sweet! I've been doing that on accident for quite some time. I always say "this time I'm going to X at this time." But I always just go off the yeast. Sweet! I certainly need to do better on my fermentation temps. One of the reasons I have been brewing so much lately is that the weather is perfect for it with an open window. My roommate doesn't have much patience for cooling even a small area of the apartment for sake of the beer, and will turn off any gadget that I have set up. In a couple of months when i have access to my parents basement that ought to help quite a bit.

 

[kh54s10]

Since I started brewing (extract) again my last three have been excellent. A kolsch, strong belgian ale, and a pilsner I have been very happy with. Don't think its technique. That really has not changed. The last three batches the only difference is I started using kegs. Maybe batch aging is the difference.

Batch aging makes no difference. I have no kegging ability and my beers are very good. This is not just my opinion. I have given some to friends who are very impressed. I have also taken them to my LHBS where several people taste tested and gave me great marks.

I have also brewed extract, partial mash and all grain. I have had great beers from all procedures and good from all of them. I pay attention to my procedures and I have not had a disaster yet.

OH Damn! I just jinxed myself again!

 

[psymonkey]

Is extract as bad as I think it is?

No.

 

[jonmohno]

If you even got it at a lhbs,if its like mine when i got muntons extract im pretty shure it was well aged sitting on the shelf. Freshness could be an issue. People seem to blame extract often.There are different types of extracts so its more possible to get differnet characters from your beers,although if you always use the same extracts your not getting much grain character control.I wish they would put the exact names of the grains used on the extract package. I would use it at times but its just cheaper for me to buy a bag of base malt and make my batches with it. Although im getting only one specific base malt character but still have my other non-base malts though.