Interesting German Brewing PDF

[Cavpilot2000]

My experience tells me that while the specs say+/-0.4 the meter is actually a lot more accurate then stated. In doing some work with zero O solution as well as a lot of experimenting with yeast DO procedure, you get a nice curve on the plotted data as opposed to more scattered points you would expect with lower accuracy. Also users of this meter have reported, on other forums, when doing the YDO procedure almost exactly mirrors each others measurements pretty closely.

How has the yeast DO process worked out for you? I haven't tried it yet, as early on Bryan suggested he noticed a flavor impact (most likely with a Helles though, so any flavor is going to be detectable in a Helles). I don't mind pre-boiling, but it does take extra time and burns additional propane (I can only get about 2 batches out of a cylinder now where I used to get 3-4).

 

[Bilsch]

You know Bryan and others probably have a much better idea of the differences. I did the initial testing of YDO but mostly on smaller volumes of water just to see what it was capable of. I've only brewed a couple of beers with the process and they were hefeweizens so not really a great vehicle to evaluate flavor nuances between boil DO and yeast DO. I use the boil method because I have the equipment and time. The YDO inspiration was simply an effort to try to help those working with larger volumes of water and or could not chill etc.

 

[masaba]

Can too much SMB cause the beer to be astringent? I made 2 LODO batches and both ended up really astringent. They were both ales and I dosed at a rate of 50 ppm SMB and used a no sparge full volume mash.

I have never experienced astringent in my other beers. The LODO runnings out of the mash tun definitely had the brighter sweeter taste and I had no problems with efficiency, but as I said, the final beer once in the keg ended up being a dumper due to the mouth puckering astringent.

 

[mabrungard]

I have never experienced astringent in my other beers. The LODO runnings out of the mash tun definitely had the brighter sweeter taste and I had no problems with efficiency, but as I said, the final beer once in the keg ended up being a dumper due to the mouth puckering astringent.

If you did not account for the sulfate added by the SMB, that sulfate dose will add a bit of dryness to the beer's finish and that may present itself as being 'astringent'. I've made that mistake.

 

[Big Monk]

If you did not account for the sulfate added by the SMB, that sulfate dose will add a bit of dryness to the beer's finish and that may present itself as being 'astringent'. I've made that mistake.

We've also amended our dosage to 30 ppm in the last revision of our paper:

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/low-oxygen-methods/

 

[masaba]

If you did not account for the sulfate added by the SMB, that sulfate dose will add a bit of dryness to the beer's finish and that may present itself as being 'astringent'. I've made that mistake.

I did adjust mineral additions to account for the SMB and started with RO water, so I don't think that was the problem although I will go back and check. I will add that each time I used the yeast scavenging method of de-oxygenation the wort.

 

[masaba]

We've also amended our dosage to 30 ppm in the last revision of our paper:

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/low-oxygen-methods/

Is that the recommended dose for full volume mashing or do you think I could get away with something less? I really don't want to have another dumped and would like to give this method of brewing a fair shot.

 

[Big Monk]

Is that the recommended dose for full volume mashing or do you think I could get away with something less? I really don't want to have another dumped and would like to give this method of brewing a fair shot.

That's the recommendation for full volume mashing. Just to get a feel for what you are doing, what other mods have you implemeted? Reduced aeration and splashing at dough-in? Underletting? Mash cap?

 

[masaba]

That's the recommendation for full volume mashing. Just to get a feel for what you are doing, what other mods have you implemeted? Reduced aeration and splashing at dough-in? Underletting? Mash cap?

I bought a pump and clamp down everything during transfer. I underlet my dough in. I don't have a mash cap, but my full volume mash essentially maxes out my mash tun (I have the 10 gallon SS mash tun). I have tried to minimize agitation at dough in by underletting, but have found that I need to give it a decent stir to make the temps uniform. I also have all stainless equipment in my process.

 

[Big Monk]

I bought a pump and clamp down everything during transfer. I underlet my dough in. I don't have a mash cap, but my full volume mash essentially maxes out my mash tun (I have the 10 gallon SS mash tun). I have tried to minimize agitation at dough in by underletting, but have found that I need to give it a decent stir to make the temps uniform. I also have all stainless equipment in my process.

If you add a mash cap with a recirc manifold, I would say that you could go down to 20 ppm.

 

[masaba]

If you add a mash cap with a recirc manifold, I would say that you could go down to 20 ppm.

Do you have any cheap suggestions for a mash cap? Will aluminum foil or plastic wrap work or is aluminum a bad idea? I would need something really thin as I don't have more than an inch or so under the lid of my mash tun. I don't recalculate my mash as I use an insulated tun instead.

 

[schematix]

I float a lid from an old bucket fermenter, and plastic wrap the top of the tun. I think it's important to have something up against as much of the mash surface as possible.

 

[enkamania]

Do you have any cheap suggestions for a mash cap? Will aluminum foil or plastic wrap work or is aluminum a bad idea? I would need something really thin as I don't have more than an inch or so under the lid of my mash tun. I don't recalculate my mash as I use an insulated tun instead.

I have a pizza pan the fits perfectly

 

[masaba]

I float a lid from an old bucket fermenter, and plastic wrap the top of the tun. I think it's important to have something up against as much of the mash surface as possible.

That sounds easy enough, thanks.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I use a 13" stainless pizza pan (it's deep dish, but only about an inch thick). You can find it on amazon for around $20, maybe less.

 

[schematix]

my mash tun has an ID of about 18".... i have yet to find a stainless pan for that!

 

[day_trippr]

Same here - there doesn't seem to be anything that'll fit inside a 20g Boilermaker very effectively (17-5/8" nominal ID).
I've been considering having a fab shop make me a thin gauge SS cap with a short rising sidewall that'd be close to my kettle ID but would still free-float and accommodate my autosparge recirculation without cutting down into the grain bed...

Cheers!

 

[ba-brewer]

Does the mash cap really need to cover the surface 100%? Seems like as long as you greatly reduce the surface area exposed to the environment you should be OK.

If you need 100% coverage plastic wrap seems like the best option(works to keep the skin off of custard), anything metal needs some minimal space around the edge to be practical.

 

[day_trippr]

Maximizing coverage to the limited factor doesn't seem wrong
The Blichmann FB would be the perfect diameter for my needs.
It has about an 1/8" clearance around the perimeter including the effects of the flat-ish vertical weld section of the kettle.

Cheers!

 

[schematix]

Same here - there doesn't seem to be anything that'll fit inside a 20g Boilermaker very effectively (17-5/8" nominal ID).

I've been considering having a fab shop make me a thin gauge SS cap with a short rising sidewall that'd be close to my kettle ID but would still free-float and accommodate my autosparge recirculation without cutting down into the grain bed...



Cheers!

Similar thought here... sounds expensive though.

I'm guessing there's a heat resistant foam type material out there that would float, seal tight, and clean up easily.... just need to find it.

 

[brewstergalVT]

Do you have any cheap suggestions for a mash cap? Will aluminum foil or plastic wrap work or is aluminum a bad idea? I would need something really thin as I don't have more than an inch or so under the lid of my mash tun. I don't recalculate my mash as I use an insulated tun instead.

I use parchment paper.

 

[Jwin]

Similar thought here... sounds expensive though.

I'm guessing there's a heat resistant foam type material out there that would float, seal tight, and clean up easily.... just need to find it.

http://www.silicone-sponge-supply.c...de_Silicone_Foam/fda_grade_silicone_foam.html

 

[milldoggy]

http://www.silicone-sponge-supply.c...de_Silicone_Foam/fda_grade_silicone_foam.html

Make sure to go closed cell

 

[TexasWine]

http://www.silicone-sponge-supply.c...de_Silicone_Foam/fda_grade_silicone_foam.html

This is an interesting find.

I was curious what FDA regulation 21 CFR 177.2600 was, as it is listed as meeting those requirements. Looks like one of the things 177.2600 does is tell us what is safe to use in food applications. Below is an easy to read explanation.

https://hollandaptblog.com/2014/02/21/fda-cfr-21-177-2600-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-important/

 

[daveMN]

My mash cap is my old igloo cooler lid with a locline recirc arm underneath. Less than a half inch around the edges. And insulated too.

View attachment 1501939242403.jpg

 

[Rhaop]

Glad to see this thread active and civil lol

Anyways my comment was regarding mash caps i have seen alot of different ideas but i'm waiting for someone to 3D print a silicone insulated mash cap to match everyone's kettle specs! Would be helpful even for non lodo guys that want an extra layer of insulation for the mash

 

[Jwin]

This is an interesting find.

I was curious what FDA regulation 21 CFR 177.2600 was, as it is listed as meeting those requirements. Looks like one of the things 177.2600 does is tell us what is safe to use in food applications. Below is an easy to read explanation.

https://hollandaptblog.com/2014/02/21/fda-cfr-21-177-2600-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-important/

Depending on the price for a custom die cut piece, this could be a pretty good solution. I assume it is buoyant, is food safe at our operating temperatures, can be custom cut for a full seal, has insulative qualities, and I would assume could be fitted with a bulkhead/locline etc for recirc.
Could also be a solution for people with rectangular coolers, like myself.
My biggest concern is if it absorbent at all. I assume the closed cell is not.

Edit, lots of assumptions...

 

[Bilsch]

Copper is often used a catalyst in silicone manufacture and that would worry me.

 

[Jwin]

Copper is often used a catalyst in silicone manufacture and that would worry me.

So what kind of hoses do you use?
I know little about the material, but I would assume that very few materials that leech metal content will clear FDA.
Edit: looking at some white papers, it appears copper's solubility in silicon requires extremely high temperatures. Could one not assume that similar high temp might be required in order for it to leech?
Excuse me if I'm being ignorant here but of all the material phobias I've heard of in homebrewing, silicon is not one of them.

 

[jwalk4]

Im still working my way through the whole thread, (on page 51 so far), but does anyone have a pictorial or a video of a whole brewday or batch?

I have read the pdf. visited the site, and read multiple posts about the process, but i guess I'm a visual learner when it comes to thjs process.