Interesting German Brewing PDF

[schematix]

What are some creative ideas people have come up with for mash caps? I've seen lids and cake pans used, which seems cheap and effective.

My mash tun is a 15G blichmann G1, which is larger than any cake pan i can find. I was thinking about taking something like a silpat baking mat and cutting it to fit.

Anything else people have used and been happy with?

 

[TexasWine]

What are some creative ideas people have come up with for mash caps? I've seen lids and cake pans used, which seems cheap and effective.

My mash tun is a 15G blichmann G1, which is larger than any cake pan i can find. I was thinking about taking something like a silpat baking mat and cutting it to fit.

Anything else people have used and been happy with?

I went the cake pan route. It doesn't quite cover the entire mash, but does get most of it. There's about a 0.5" gap around the circumference. For me, that was close enough, especially after realizing that this method can be done without one. I view the mash cap as simply being something that will allow me to reduce my sulfite addition.

I have a 62 quart Bayou Classic, FWIW.

 

[schematix]

I went the cake pan route. It doesn't quite cover the entire mash, but does get most of it. There's about a 0.5" gap around the circumference. For me, that was close enough, especially after realizing that this method can be done without one. I view the mash cap as simply being something that will allow me to reduce my sulfite addition.

I have a 62 quart Bayou Classic, FWIW.

What's the pot diameter? What cake pan did you use?

 

[TexasWine]

What's the pot diameter? What cake pan did you use?

Kettle diameter: 15.25"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VXD94A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Cake pan: 14"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005P15QBM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Price has gone up a lot on the cake pan from when I bought mine. $30 vs $17. Maybe the low DO process is creating a demand for them?

 

[bbohanon]

Kettle diameter: 15.25"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VXD94A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Cake pan: 14"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005P15QBM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Price has gone up a lot on the cake pan from when I bought mine. $30 vs $17. Maybe the low DO process is creating a demand for them?

ROFL..I can see the Walmart sign now..
"Quality Dual Purpose DO Mash Cap/Cake Pan"

 

[trav77]

How do you guys that use eBIAB with a basket handle the mash cap? I was also thinking of trying a silpat inside the basket but not sure how to handle the gap between the basket and the kettle wall.

The basket is 12.25" diameter and kettle is 15.8" diameter so about a 1.75" gap.

 

[Jwin]

Could always cut a silicon baking mat

 

[rabeb25]

Or use tinfoil

 

[schematix]

Could always cut a silicon baking mat

I was thinking about taking something like a silpat baking mat and cutting it to fit.

^^That's my leading idea. Don't know if it would sink or float though...

Or use tinfoil

I attempted that for about 15 seconds then abandoned it as a terrible, sticky idea. it wouldn't lay flat on the surface of the mash.

 

[TexasWine]

I tried a silicon baking mat. It sinks and never would stay put. Only tried it with water. And silicon is pretty permeable when compared to stainless steel!

 

[daveMN]

I use the lid from my 10 gal igloo cooler. Gives me a little less than a half-inch gap in my 15 gal kettle. And, insulated too.

 

[Bilsch]

Having tested both methods, I am one of the "claimers" of the flavor. First and foremost I have to say hats of to bilsch for the method.. its ingenious. It has helped countless people out and needs to be noted. That said, I find it to not be as "clean" as the preboil...

Many thanks to Rabeb25 for the tip of the hat on yeast DO. And I totally agree the boil method results in a slightly superior final product. No idea the cause either but if I'm making something clean like a helles, and have the time.. I boil. Anything darker or I want to save time, I employ the yeast DO.

As for how long it takes for the yeast to do their DO job.. about 60-90 minutes is the sweet spot.

 

[arigato]

I don't keg (bottle prime) and so I am thinking of different ways to maintain low DO on the cold side with my set up and I wanted opinions.

The setup I have is an upright freezer connected to a thermo couple for temp control, and I like to use 1 gallon glass jugs complete with traditional airlocks to lager the beer. This means that right now there is a lot of O2 around the wort, which of course I am trying to eliminate. So the idea is that once you are done with the boil, Im thinking I will back fill all the glass jugs down to the beer bottles themselves with not nitrogen, but argon.

Why argon? its inert, and weighs significantly more than nitrogen and will keep a "heavier" blanket over the wort. Is there any mention of using argon gas in the brew process used by breweries in Germany or elsewhere?

As a side note, argon is commonly used in some welding processes to keep oxidation (rust) at bay which happens pretty much instantaneously without it while you are welding. I am well aware of the risks of using argon irresponsibly in a closed environment.

 

[TexasWine]

I don't keg (bottle prime) and so I am thinking of different ways to maintain low DO on the cold side with my set up and I wanted opinions.

The setup I have is an upright freezer connected to a thermo couple for temp control, and I like to use 1 gallon glass jugs complete with traditional airlocks to lager the beer. This means that right now there is a lot of O2 around the wort, which of course I am trying to eliminate. So the idea is that once you are done with the boil, Im thinking I will back fill all the glass jugs down to the beer bottles themselves with not nitrogen, but argon.

Why argon? its inert, and weighs significantly more than nitrogen and will keep a "heavier" blanket over the wort. Is there any mention of using argon gas in the brew process used by breweries in Germany or elsewhere?

As a side note, argon is commonly used in some welding processes to keep oxidation (rust) at bay which happens pretty much instantaneously without it while you are welding. I am well aware of the risks of using argon irresponsibly in a closed environment.

I'm confused about what you're trying to avoid or accomplish by pumping argon into your fermenter prior to fermentation. Just ferment to terminal gravity, prime and bottle. You'll have less oxygen exposure than just about anyone who kegs, assuming you treat your beer gently when priming (no splashing, working quickly, etc).

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I've heard of argon being used in parts of bottling lines to purge O2 and avoid O2 pickup. But that's a bit different.

 

[rabeb25]

I'm confused about what you're trying to avoid or accomplish by pumping argon into your fermenter prior to fermentation. Just ferment to terminal gravity, prime and bottle. You'll have less oxygen exposure than just about anyone who kegs, assuming you treat your beer gently when priming (no splashing, working quickly, etc).

Fermenting to gravity wouldn't get him to less exposure since we are spunding, so we have active yeast. The best practice would be to bottle spund, which I have done with great success. Our low oxygen brewing sheet we created has this in it, along with countless other things.

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/low-oxygen-brewing-spreadsheet/

 

[Tommydee]

Disclaimer, haven't taken time to read all this, though I think I heard these guys on Beersmith. I'm new to hobby, and believe there may be merit to this, but not yet convinced. I have simple BIAB setup with low tolerance of adding too many steps. I work with complex automated mfg systems as my day job, and therefore get no enjoyment hassling with PID instrumentation at home as a hobby. (But I have mad respect for those on the forum that do!)

Argon quite expensive. In pharma mfg, I've seen N2 sparge wands used for formulation of oxygen sensitive molecules. Small scale devt will use a setup nearly identical to oxygenation we use in homebrewing,, submerge a sintered Ss "stone" with a SS wand, and bubble sterile-filtered N2 during processing. Since N2 tanks are available to home brewers, why not just do this during mash and wort chilling? I could see a simple y setup with second stone to fermenter so it stays inerted during transfer, then pitch, switch to your O2 tank....Avoids putting all those sulfite as in the beer, extra time and energy boiling, and ditching my copper coil. The size of the tanks we use in ventilated space results in very low risk of N2 asphyxiation...in industrial setting, we do use low O2 sensors for safety nonetheless, but these are areas served by massive LN2 tanks.

I'm sure I'm missing something, maybe too much N2 volume/expense required for a 90 + minute N2 sparge. Has this been attempted by homebrewers yet?

 

[Iseneye]

I'm sure I'm missing something, maybe too much N2 volume/expense required for a 90 + minute N2 sparge. Has this been attempted by homebrewers yet?

I don't see how your proposed method will let you use a copper chilling coil.

 

[TexasWine]

Fermenting to gravity wouldn't get him to less exposure since we are spunding, so we have active yeast. The best practice would be to bottle spund, which I have done with great success. Our low oxygen brewing sheet we created has this in it, along with countless other things.

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/low-oxygen-brewing-spreadsheet/

Agreed, the folks who are spunding in the keg would have less exposure. My statement should have been narrowed to say less exposure than those that keg in the traditional sense.

My advice perhaps should have doled out in a manner that gave a few options, best practice to acceptable alternatives. If this person is like me, spunding just isn't going to become a part of the normal routine unfortunately. Priming in the keg or bottle after terminal gravity has been reached will be the only option until I quit my 9-5.

Also, to through out other options, he could use speise to prime. Really any way to get active yeast to hang out with your beer during bottling, transfer or kegging it a good thing.
https://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/AdvancedBottleConditioning.pdf

 

[rabeb25]

Speise is also in our sheet....[emoji12]

 

[Magnus314]

The speise must flow.

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

 

[TheHairyHop]

The speise must flow.

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Wow

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I could see where one would say that the Yeast/Dextrose method results in a slightly muddy taste. I haven't done the boil and chill method, but mine compared to commercial examples is what I would consider muddier.

I like the Yeast/Dextrose because the yeast does their job while I am at work. My water is ready when I get home. Time is valuable with a toddler running around.

I would really like an option to get my water heated to say 180 while I am at work, and then use my burner to get to boiling once I get home. I have an anova sous vide cooker that uses Bluetooth, but they make a model that uses wifi. Its about $200.

I purchased a timer and a bucket warmer a while back, but decided against the warmer after reading reviews saying its really not food safe. I don't want a Cadmium Porter.

I'm also wondering if the brand of yeast makes a difference in the muddy taste. Ha, anyone know the bread yeast equivalent of WLP001/WY1056/US05 so we can get a clean taste?

 

[Magnus314]

You could always save a bit of yeast slurry from the last time you made that same beer (or at least the same yeast), then you'd only be "muddying" it up with what was already in it. Worth a test at least...

I get less "it" from the yeast/dextrose method too. It just seems like much of the oxygen taken up by the yeast will still react in the mash once the little guys die, especially on the way to a boil where a ton of them are pretty much going to explode.

After using both methods, I dropped the $80 on a 50' stainless chiller so I could more easily chill to strike temps without using my copper IC coil twice.

Does anyone have DO measurements to show if the yeast/dextrose method works for 8-12 hours? I'd be happy to test it, but I don't have a DO meter.

 

[rabeb25]

Yes. They are here and in the link in the blog post as well

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/yeast-deoxygenation-method/

I think the muddyness is due to the yeast cells releasing lipids when heated. I actually think they are releasing these and fatty acids, which are either causing oxidation in the mash, and/or making their way into the finished product causing staling flavors.

It's the price you pay for ease of use.

 

[Magnus314]

Nice! I've read that thread about 500 times and I never saw that he took the test out 15-17 hours.

Now I'm very interested in doing another test, with slurry from a previous batch of the same beer instead of bread yeast, to see if the "muddiness" was from the bread yeast.

How much dry yeast is in a thick slurry?

 

[rabeb25]

I don't think the yeast type will matter. The same processes are going to happen... cell walls excreting and rupturing. But, I could be completely wrong as well.

 

[Bilsch]

This is the data from the one of the longer YOS tests I did which should give a good idea of what the yeast is doing hour by hour.
--------------------------------------------
Initial DO reading ~6.46 mg/l
0.47 ppm @ 20 min, 35c
0.26 ppm @ 43 min
0.25 ppm @ 60 min, 35c
0.19 ppm @ 90 min
0.18 ppm @ 130 min, 34.4c
0.25 ppm @ 170 min
0.18 ppm @ 15hr, 26c

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Looks like Bobby from Brewhardware has a heating element that doesn't require a permanent install.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu1500gfci.htm

Thinking about hooking this up to a timed outlet. I get home at 5 pm, so I would set it to kick on at 4 pm. Would shave some time on the preboil.

 

[Jwin]

Looks like Bobby from Brewhardware has a heating element that doesn't require a permanent install.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu1500gfci.htm

Thinking about hooking this up to a timed outlet. I get home at 5 pm, so I would set it to kick on at 4 pm. Would shave some time on the preboil.

I was about to post one of these in classifieds. PM if interested