Interesting German Brewing PDF
- Thread starter rabeb25
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Has anyone noticed an increase in the taste effect of water ions in their LODO brews? I am perceiving a chalky taste/ mouthfeel from my LODO brews. I preboil my water to reduce carbonate and alkalinity, getting my carbonate down to about 50 - 60 ppm. I have a LaMotte test kit. However, it could be something else. Any ideas?
I think that's my next step. I recently convinced my wife she wants a RO tap in the kitchen.
I'm taking a few beers to my next homebrew club meeting to get some other opinions.
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
Man, that's some slick maneuvering - kudos!I think that's my next step. I recently convinced my wife she wants a RO tap in the kitchen.
I just use distilled water, because I haven't found a local RO source, but I don't like that I end up with spent plastic jugs after every brew. Of course they get recycled, but it's still wasteful.
I also don't love the idea of RO because it wastes a lot of water, but at least I live in a place where water is plentiful.
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
It's not the expense, it's the waste. Most systems waste 3 gallons for every one gallon they give you to use.
Yes, but in the whole scheme of things you need like 10-12G to brew a 5G batch. A shower takes 40G. So brewing a batch of beer takes as much water as a shower. Unless you're really limited (like on a poor well), this is a no brainer.
Technically it's wasteful, but if you buy RO water or distilled water, the waste is still there, it's just that someone else has done the wasting for you.
getting a bit philosophical here, but if you live in a place with plenty of water, it's not really much of a waste. not like it was going to be shipped to Los Angeles if you didn't use. that being said, whenever I spend a summer in LA, I'm always very conscious of my brewing :/
I bought the SpectraPure CSP RO 90-AF reverse osmosis water filtration system. This unit has a very low, 2:1 waste ratio produces 50% less waste water, rejection rate, it's a lot lower than 3 gallons.
You may be taking 'waste water' a bit too literally. It is easy to store the rejected water in a vessel, for use later as grey water for cleaning, etc.
Depends on the quality of the source water. The rejected water has an even higher concentration of ions. If the source water was already very high TDS, you may as well just send it down the drain.
When i make RO water for brewing day i'm usually making about 25 gallons. I don't have the ability to store another 75 gallons of rejected water, nor can i cost justify of buying storage with the cost of water here.
stpug
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2012
- Messages
- 3,808
- Reaction score
- 767
I have not noticed an increased or reduced taste effect from water minerals in my low oxygen beers. That part stayed about the same for me. I don't use RO most of the time, although sometimes I will for a light lager batch (although, I cannot perceive the benefit in the finished beer so I doubt I will again very often).
I've picked up on a husky taste that I've (possibly incorrectly) associated with using Brewtan B late in the boil, but as far as I know I'm the only one who's made this (possibly incorrect) assumption. On my most recent beer I eliminated the BtB late in the boil and the flavor is not present in the finished beer.
CRUNK
Member
I was asked to post this here
Left glass lodo helles, right glass non lodo helles, both used wlp830, identical recipe, grits, water was distilled then built up to match within 3ppm, same fermenting temps, same mash schedule, the whole ball of wax.
Left 6 weeks lagering
Right 8 weeks lagering
Neither one has been filtered yet, I am picking up 2 serving kegs tomorrow
Lodo has pleasant hops nose a little low for my preference, nice bread notes, smooth mouth feel, just dry enough to easily put 3 of these down quick fast and in a hurry.
The lodo required NO acid additions what so ever, the non LODO required acid in the mash to lower the ph to the preferred level. As I haven't built my sourgut reactor yet, that coming after I return from vacation in 2 weeks.
Left glass lodo helles, right glass non lodo helles, both used wlp830, identical recipe, grits, water was distilled then built up to match within 3ppm, same fermenting temps, same mash schedule, the whole ball of wax.
Left 6 weeks lagering
Right 8 weeks lagering
Neither one has been filtered yet, I am picking up 2 serving kegs tomorrow
Lodo has pleasant hops nose a little low for my preference, nice bread notes, smooth mouth feel, just dry enough to easily put 3 of these down quick fast and in a hurry.
The lodo required NO acid additions what so ever, the non LODO required acid in the mash to lower the ph to the preferred level. As I haven't built my sourgut reactor yet, that coming after I return from vacation in 2 weeks.
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
Wow, the difference in color is stark!
I'm surprised they haven't cleared better with that much lagering time.
My Low O2 Pils finally dropped clear. It's amazing. Best beer I've ever made.
Pictures coming soon.
I'm surprised they haven't cleared better with that much lagering time.
My Low O2 Pils finally dropped clear. It's amazing. Best beer I've ever made.
Pictures coming soon.
CRUNK
Member
They are pretty clear the glasses were compensating too quickly, here is the LODO after filtering to a serving keg
CRUNK
Member
Yes it does, but it seems oxygen on the cold side does not have the large effects on beer as it does on the hot side
Um....
Big Monk
Trappist Please! 🍷
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2015
- Messages
- 2,192
- Reaction score
- 1,151
I think what you mean to say is that the diffusion rate of Oxygen lessens with lower temperature but the effects of exposure do not.
CRUNK
Member
I posted these at the request of a member on a different forum, I didn't mean to stir up bad feelings or controversy. Happy brewing have a nice day.
@Jwin, I'm confident @CRUNK is not trolling. Just sharing their experience. I'm one of those who asked him/her to share the photos on this thread. I thought it informative.
With that, I don't necessarily agree with the statement that O2 exposure on the cold side isn't as detrimental as hot side. It is just as detrimental, if not more, but just slower to rear its ugly head.
stpug
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2012
- Messages
- 3,808
- Reaction score
- 767
Picture of two jars of 1056 yeast collected from a blonde ale a little over 7 weeks ago; both were initially filled to nearly the brim.
The only difference between the two is the amount of headspace/oxygen in the jars.
Jar on the left has never been opened; jar on right was opened once to remove 3 spoonfuls of yeast about 7 weeks ago.
BTW, those pickle slices are really, really old
The only difference between the two is the amount of headspace/oxygen in the jars.
Jar on the left has never been opened; jar on right was opened once to remove 3 spoonfuls of yeast about 7 weeks ago.
BTW, those pickle slices are really, really old
Picture of two jars of 1056 yeast collected from a blonde ale a little over 7 weeks ago; both were initially filled to nearly the brim.
The only difference between the two is the amount of headspace/oxygen in the jars.
Jar on the left has never been opened; jar on right was opened once to remove 3 spoonfuls of yeast about 7 weeks ago.
View attachment 398823
BTW, those pickle slices are really, really old
Incredible!
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
Yeah I know - who keeps pickles THAT long?!?!?
stpug
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2012
- Messages
- 3,808
- Reaction score
- 767
Just for clarity, exactly what different methods were used between the two? Was the only difference on the hot side? Did you spund both beers? Etc.
CRUNK
Member
I did everything identical it was my own test to see whether lodo makes the difference in my opinion, I wasn't convinced by reading or videos alone. Both were spunded side by side in the same chamber same pressure same mash schedule and temps tested with 3 different thermometer ph was kept within general level between 5.4 and 5.6 water profile started with distilled and was within 3 ppm across the board. I was quite anal in this comparison more so than I would on a normal brewday.
The only thing I didn't do is filter the non LODO, because when I filtered the LODO it stripped more flavor than I preferred as both taste wonderful I chose to save a filter
These won't last long in my house, and a blind taste test is being done friday night against 2 purchased beers.
Here is my final post about this test that I placed on my usual forums, but I am always around to answer questions
I'm new to brewing, only 10 batches (The first 7 have been dumped) i never brewed a day in my life till i decided to quit smoking, i knew i needed something to keep me busy. I have alot to learn but i have made a fair investment to a hobby i really enjoy.
This video shows batches 8 and 9 side by side comparison left is batch 9 (lodo) right is batch 8 ( non lodo)
Batch 9 I filtered batch 8 is not because I lost a noticeable amount of flavor, the video is taken while the beer is at 38°f
I'm convinced lodo makes a worth while difference, and I'm glad I was directed to this site early in my learning process, before any bad habits were formed.
I just had a friend do a blind taste test, he chose the LODO as the beer he preferred.
Needless to say I have 10 gallons of beer in kegs, and another 5 in a fermentor ready to transfer to a keg. They will not last long.
My final test for me was to stand my lodo up next to a whienstefaner original premium I purchased, and the flavor of my LODO is so close that I am happy and have to give my gratitude to all of you who helped guide me along the way, and all the efforts you all have made to clear the path to happiness.
Here's the link to the short 1 minute video
https://youtu.be/aXxAFEeQAM0
The only thing I didn't do is filter the non LODO, because when I filtered the LODO it stripped more flavor than I preferred as both taste wonderful I chose to save a filter
These won't last long in my house, and a blind taste test is being done friday night against 2 purchased beers.
Here is my final post about this test that I placed on my usual forums, but I am always around to answer questions
I'm new to brewing, only 10 batches (The first 7 have been dumped) i never brewed a day in my life till i decided to quit smoking, i knew i needed something to keep me busy. I have alot to learn but i have made a fair investment to a hobby i really enjoy.
This video shows batches 8 and 9 side by side comparison left is batch 9 (lodo) right is batch 8 ( non lodo)
Batch 9 I filtered batch 8 is not because I lost a noticeable amount of flavor, the video is taken while the beer is at 38°f
I'm convinced lodo makes a worth while difference, and I'm glad I was directed to this site early in my learning process, before any bad habits were formed.
I just had a friend do a blind taste test, he chose the LODO as the beer he preferred.
Needless to say I have 10 gallons of beer in kegs, and another 5 in a fermentor ready to transfer to a keg. They will not last long.
My final test for me was to stand my lodo up next to a whienstefaner original premium I purchased, and the flavor of my LODO is so close that I am happy and have to give my gratitude to all of you who helped guide me along the way, and all the efforts you all have made to clear the path to happiness.
Here's the link to the short 1 minute video
https://youtu.be/aXxAFEeQAM0
OP
OP
rabeb25
HE of who can not be spoken of.
For those interested, I was asked to brew some beer for Brewtroller for the National Homebrew Convention. They will be serving the beer (pale ale) on Friday, from 11-3 (or until gone) by special request.
I know it tasted alright last night, but who knows what will happen to it from now until Friday! Here's to hoping for the best.
Just ask for it by using my name.
(This is a low oxygen beer of course)
I know it tasted alright last night, but who knows what will happen to it from now until Friday! Here's to hoping for the best.
Just ask for it by using my name.
(This is a low oxygen beer of course
)
For those interested, I was asked to brew some beer for Brewtroller for the National Homebrew Convention. They will be serving the beer (pale ale) on Friday, from 11-3 (or until gone) by special request.
I know it tasted alright last night, but who knows what will happen to it from now until Friday! Here's to hoping for the best.
Just ask for it by using my name.
(This is a low oxygen beer of course
I wish I had seen this before Homebrew Con. Oh well.
beersk
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 1,854
- Reaction score
- 1,031
For those interested, I was asked to brew some beer for Brewtroller for the National Homebrew Convention. They will be serving the beer (pale ale) on Friday, from 11-3 (or until gone) by special request.
I know it tasted alright last night, but who knows what will happen to it from now until Friday! Here's to hoping for the best.
Just ask for it by using my name.
(This is a low oxygen beer of course
Have you heard how it was received? Really wish I could've made it up there this year.
I gave a heads up to my friend who was there, and he said they ended up not serving the beer HBCon.
OP
OP
rabeb25
HE of who can not be spoken of.
Welllll. I was all set to deliver the beer on Tuesday. I found out last minute that there was no cold storage for a day or so and my beer would have to sit in a trailer in the heat(high 90's heat index) until then. I chose to not bring it down until cooler space was available, but then I got stuck at work.
Welllll. I was all set to deliver the beer on Tuesday. I found out last minute that there was no cold storage for a day or so and my beer would have to sit in a trailer in the heat(high 90's heat index) until then. I chose to not bring it down until cooler space was available, but then I got stuck at work.
Understandable. I would've done the same.
Well, I underlet my mash for the first time today
90 minutes later, my first stuck mash. 1.3+ qt/#
Stirred well, but not hard after all the strike water was in there
Dozens of batches on this system and never a stuck mash.
I'll be investing in a brew bag for the cooler for sure. $50 or so is worth never dealing with this again
90 minutes later, my first stuck mash. 1.3+ qt/#
Stirred well, but not hard after all the strike water was in there
Dozens of batches on this system and never a stuck mash.
I'll be investing in a brew bag for the cooler for sure. $50 or so is worth never dealing with this again
What else did you do differently? Any mill changes? Grain conditioning? Different base malt? Different quantity? What has your normal process been?
The underlet process itself is not likely to be the culprit.
