Indoor BIAB

[Psylocide]

I do need to tweak it a bit hops wise as my cascade are too low in AA%. No dry-hopping on it for me. It's a great crisp ale on it's own. That is probably tantamount to blasphemy in your brewery. i know you likes your hops.

I hear you. I just like that big punch of aroma and the perceived flavor it lends to a fresh brew.

 

[Gavin C]

I've never had an Altbier, commercial or homebrew so have nothing to compare this to. I did do a bit of research into the style and came up with a recipe.

The most recent BJCP guidelines have amalgamated the Dusseldorf and Northern German Alt into one; Altbier. This fits the criteria

This is one delicious beer IMO. I'm not much good as descriptives but this is not too dissimilar to a Munich Dunkel I think.

Will be entering this in the upcoming O'Zapft Is competition.

Fermented cool with WLP036


OG 1.050 FG 1.010 SRM ~13.5 IBU ~34

 

[Brew_G]

Gavin...

I'm not sure if you've touched on this in the thread, but do you build your water from scratch? If so, when do you add the minerals to the water (add to strike water, after mashing, etc.)? If not, then forget I asked!

 

[Gavin C]

Gavin...

I'm not sure if you've touched on this in the thread, but do you build your water from scratch? If so, when do you add the minerals to the water (add to strike water, after mashing, etc.)? If not, then forget I asked!

Hey @Brew_G

I don't build my water from RO yet although am likely to do so in the future on a Pilsner I am planning. I've had decent results (admitedly biased) so far with some lighter beers I've been making.

I use my tap water which I had tested by Ward Labs to give me a starting point. I'm fortunate in that my water is good but not ideal.

I also get reports from the city every so often to see if there are any major changes going on. A new report is probably due as we have had a lot of rain in North Texas that may have changed the water profile somewhat. I don't know.

I generally select the target pofile in Bru'n water based on color and balnced/malty/bitter profile and build with that in mind.

For all but very hoppy styles this is involves a small addition of CaCl to bring my Ca levels up. Some CaSO4 if a bitter profile is desired. Again the target numbers fom Bru'n water.

I add all minerals to the strike water which goes through a simple carbon filter (like on an RV) . A ~1/2 of a Campden tablet is added to eliminate Chloramines instantly.

I tackle mash pH seperately

I acidify my full volume mashes with acidulated malt in the calculated amounts so I'm not adding any other acid to the strike water. I have used lactic acid for this in the past and it was added to the strike water just like the minerals. It's easier to ensure it is evenly distibuted this way.

If using RO water my approach would be no different but I would need different mineral additions. Definitely would get me closer to my target water.

Hope that is of some use and not a TL,DR post.

 

[Brew_G]

Definitely useful, Gavin. I really appreciate the detailed response!

I'm starting to realize that I'm likely getting some hit-and-miss results because of the big season fluctuations in the mineral content in my water. It's not that I've made bad beers (well...those not infected!), but they haven't been consistent. It's not until I took a good look at the detailed water reports of the last few years that I understood how different the water has been for each of my beers.

The best one so far was a 50% Nelson / 25% Centennial / 25% Cascade IPA I made back in June (it's an excellent beer), but others have generally been just on either side of "good."

Now I want to start to put together consistently good beers and I think that the water is a good starting point to try to get there. I was curious as to when other BIABers make their CaCl and CaSO4 additions, and also how they get the pH in the right range (sauermalz, lactic acid, etc.). I've read a good deal of Yooper's/ajdelange's water primer thread, so I'll stick with their "Building Water for Dummies" for a while, if only because I still can't quite make heads or tails of Bru'n Water. F'ing metric!

Edit: I went back to Bru'n Water today and saw that they have a version for US measurements! :smack:

 

[Gavin C]

I was curious as to when other BIABers make their CaCl and CaSO4 additions, and also how they get the pH in the right range (sauermalz, lactic acid, etc.). I've read a good deal of Yooper's/ajdelange's water primer thread, so I'll stick with their "Building Water for Dummies" for a while, if only because I still can't quite make heads or tails of Bru'n Water. F'ing metric!

Glad that was of some use. Once you get the hang of Bru'n water I think you'll find it to be extremely useful. Stick at it.

There is a thread on full-volume mashing and pH, which is relatively recent covering some of this

I put some info in at post #11 and below which might also be useful to you. Maybe not.

In any event,you'll not go too far wrong following @Yooper 's and @ajdelange 's advice in the water primer thread or for that matter on any brew-related topic I reckon.

 

[Brew_G]

Glad that was of some use. Once you get the hang of Bru'n water I think you'll find it to be extremely useful. Stick at it.

There is a thread on full-volume mashing and pH, which is relatively recent covering some of this

I put some info in at post #11 and below which might also be useful to you. Maybe not.

In any event,you'll not go too far wrong following @Yooper 's and @ajdelange 's advice in the water primer thread or for that matter on any brew-related topic I reckon.

I've been toying with Bru'n Water here and there today after I downloaded the US-measurement version. Definitely much simpler now that I don't have to try to calculate metric in my head! I also looked at the EZ Water Calculator, and there are some discrepancies between that and BW (using the same malt bills), but I wonder if 1) I'm using them correctly and/or 2) they're within the margin of error.

Thanks for the link. It's a good read.

Completely agreed on using Yooper's and ajdelange's guidance to get me started on the way to making consistently good beers. Can't argue with that at all!

Next order of business is to find a store with a RO or distilled water dispenser. I can buy distilled water by the gallon, but I'd rather not if I can help it.

 

[Gavin C]

I've been toying with Bru'n Water here and there today after I downloaded the US-measurement version. Definitely much simpler now that I don't have to try to calculate metric in my head! I also looked at the EZ Water Calculator, and there are some discrepancies between that and BW (using the same malt bills), but I wonder if 1) I'm using them correctly and/or 2) they're within the margin of error.

Thanks for the link. It's a good read.

Completely agreed on using Yooper's and ajdelange's guidance to get me started on the way to making consistently good beers. Can't argue with that at all!

Next order of business is to find a store with a RO or distilled water dispenser. I can buy distilled water by the gallon, but I'd rather not if I can help it.

RO water will be alot cheaper and equally simple to use. Most supermarkets, Walmarts etc have those self serve dispensers. ~30-40c/gallon I think

I was looking at one the other week figuring how best to fill up from it. Staring at it for ages. I'm sure I looked like some sort of weirdo. Hopefully I wasn't photographed and don't make the cut for peopleofwalmart.com

 

[Brew_G]

RO water will be alot cheaper and equally simple to use. Most supermarkets, Walmarts etc have those self serve dispensers. ~30-40c/gallon I think

I was looking at one the other week figuring how best to fill up from it. Staring at it for ages. I'm sure I looked like some sort of weirdo. Hopefully I wasn't photographed and don't make the cut for peopleofwalmart.com

:fro:

I've looked in a couple local supermarkets and have only seen spring water stations (return an old bottle and pick up a new one). If I can find a place that has an RO dispenser, then I'll probably take my 30L Speidel and fill it to near the brim - that should get me spot on with what I need for most any 5-gallon batch. I'm going to check the local Whole Foods, Fresh Market, and and WalMart over the next couple days, as my next brewday looks to be Saturday the 29th, and I'd like to try building water for it. Going to brew up a fairly potent, hoppy brown ale. Dare I call it an IBA?

 

[Gavin C]

Dare I call it an IBA?

Sounds too much like IBS (irritable bowel syndrome)

Although pretty much anything with brown in the name never sounds too inviting. India Mahoganny Ale (Patent pending), sounds more mysterious and tempting I reckon.

 

[Gavin C]

The jump off point for this recipe was @Brulosopher 's Munich Helles. I changed the Grain-bill, yeast, mash and fermentation profiles a bit on this, a rebrew of his original recipe which was good. I prefer my second version. Granted, I am biased a bit . Not as fast a turnaround though.

Munich Helles OG 1.048 FG 1.009 IBU 20 SRM 4.6


Mash


Fermentation (all in primary, kegged at 2 weeks)


Judges Reports 44/50 & 43/50


I'll add this to the recipe database and post a link here for anyone interested. A very tasty beer.

 

[Brew_G]

Awesome. Your attention to detail is second to none, Gavin. Looks and reads like an awesome beer!

Can't wait to get a fridge and STC temp control so I can make lagers...

 

[TexasWine]

Judges Reports 44/50 & 43/50[/B]
View attachment 301072

I'll add this to the recipe database and post a link here for anyone interested. A very tasty beer.

Way to go! Get any ribbons with those?

 

[Gavin C]

Awesome. Your attention to detail is second to none, Gavin. Looks and reads like an awesome beer!

Can't wait to get a fridge and STC temp control so I can make lagers...

Way to go! Get any ribbons with those?

Thanks lads.

I'm really enjoying all the extra work (fun) in planning and making lagers.

No ribbon but I should be receiving some bronze bling in the mail soon enough.

The recipe is here if anyone's interested.

 

[Gavin C]

The Helles in a more appropriate glass

Prost!

 

[Brew_G]

Yum. In my opinion, there's nothing like a nice bready/sweet lager on a warm day!

 

[jason.mundy]

The O2 is about $10 for a cylinder at Home Depot. Not sure how many batches it will do. I have done 4 so far with it and it's not empty yet. I have a new one ready to go.

Start weighing your cylinder in grams and write the number on the side in sharpie. This will give you an idea of how much O2 you are using per batch and also give you an idea when it is going to run out.

 

[soccerdad]

Gavin - and other indoor BIAB folks. I still refer to this thread often, though I have not commented in a while.

I wonder what calculators you all use to find best strike water temp.

A BIAB mash should be no different in its objective than any other. I am looking for a stable mash temperature for the duration with little or no intervention required.

Dough-in is completed while stirring constantly using a plastic mash paddle. I have found the calculators for strike temperature to be extremely accurate once one inputs the correct grain temperature and mash-tun specifics and have yet to be off by more than 1F.

I really struggle here and I think it might in part be the controlled indoor environment that has me often mashing at too high a temp. In other words. a calculator may tell me - based on grain temp and weight v. water volume - to dough in at 4 degrees above desired mash temp, but for the next 20 minutes I might only lose 1 degree.

I am not making bad beer, but I do notice things, like for example, my most recent Amber Ale seems to have a higher level of sweetness than it should. Since so much conversion seems to take place in those first 20 to 30 minutes, I would really like to drop right on to that 1 degree variable if I can.

I guess that's just a long way around to ask you guys what is the best calc for mashing with BIAB?

 

[Gavin C]

Gavin - and other indoor BIAB folks.
I guess that's just a long way around to ask you guys what is the best calc for mashing with BIAB?

Glad to hear this thread is useful @Soccerdad .

I use Beersmith and am pretty much always spot on with it.

 

[soccerdad]

Good - thanks. Beersmith !

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I use my calculator for mash info, and just use beersmith for recipe formulation/storage.

You can find it in my sig, or at pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc directly. Info is just as accurate as beersmith as far as volumes and Temps are concerned, and has a few things beersmith doesn't do.

 

[brew703]

I use priceless, brewers friend and beersmith just to see if they are all the same, however i usually go by what priceless shows.

 

[soccerdad]

OK - I have now concluded that I am a dumbo. If Gavin hits mash temp within 1 degree, and if he uses beersmith, and if priceless equals beersmith, and if I have been using priceless, then I should hit my temp much closer. Maybe Thermapen is my answer .. quick and accurate digital read versus the dial therm on the kettle. Or maybe I am a dumbo.

 

[Brew_G]

I use priceless, but I've found that the speed at which I dough in makes a pretty big difference in the temp after dough in - as much as 4 degrees F. Basically, the times I've doughed in more quickly, the temp has come in higher than expected, and the opposite for when I dough in more slowly. It's just a matter of actually making notes of how long it takes to dough in and comparing it to the starting mash temp and I should be able to hit mash temps pretty much dead on.

 

[Gavin C]

I think the speed should have no bearing on the final temp. The grain is a heat sink of sorts and it can take a few minutes to absorb the thermal energy from the water. Less of an issue with thin mash and fine milling (perhaps) but certainly something commonly reported in conventional mashes.

I'm an advocate for a fast dough in but not for the reason you give.

Perhaps just keeping the time point at which you measure the temperature is the key in assuring accuracy of that initial mash step data.

i.e. Always measure x minutes after the start of dough in. Am I making sense?

Edit see 2 posts down

 

[pricelessbrewing]

OK - I have now concluded that I am a dumbo. If Gavin hits mash temp within 1 degree, and if he uses beersmith, and if priceless equals beersmith, and if I have been using priceless, then I should hit my temp much closer. Maybe Thermapen is my answer .. quick and accurate digital read versus the dial therm on the kettle. Or maybe I am a dumbo.

One of the main differences (really the only one) between my strike temp, and beersmiths strike temp, is for mash tuns and for situations where the mash tun isn't pre heated as I currently don't know the formula for offsetting the strike temp based on the thermal mass of the mash tun.

I find that doughing in and getting a stable temp usually requires a few minutes of constant stirring, as it takes a little bit of time for the grains to distribute evenly and for them to "absorb" the heat* and for the entire mash (pre-wort + grains) to reach a consistent temp and to reach equilibrium. What I usually end up doing is setting my mash temp 2 degrees above my mash temp in my calculator, as I know it takes a bit of time for me to dough in well and I usually end up losing about 2 degrees over that time period of constant agitation.

tl;dr dough in takes awhile, make sure your reading a consitent temp throughout the mash and that you're not reading 5 seconds after you dough in.

*my heat and thermo professor would've just cussed me out so hard for that phrasing.

 

[Gavin C]

I use priceless, but I've found that the speed at which I dough in makes a pretty big difference in the temp after dough in - as much as 4 degrees F. Basically, the times I've doughed in more quickly, the temp has come in higher than expected, and the opposite for when I dough in more slowly. It's just a matter of actually making notes of how long it takes to dough in and comparing it to the starting mash temp and I should be able to hit mash temps pretty much dead on.

@Brew_G

One thing I didn't consider in my earlier reply is of course the longer dough in has the lid off the pot longer so you are going to lose more thermal energy there. I guess that is what you are describing.

Longer dough-in, more energy lost to evaporation/radiation equal lower temperature of the mash.

TL,DR You're dead right.


Todays dough in I tried a little change. I tipped the entire grist into the water in 2-3 seconds. Then stirred in thoroughly for 1 minute approx. Not a dough ball in sight with a thin mash and fine milling. (10.25lbs and 6.5 gallons of strike water).

 

[Brew_G]

@Brew_G



One thing I didn't consider in my earlier reply is of course the longer dough in has the lid off the pot longer so you are going to lose more thermal energy there. I guess that is what you are describing.



Longer dough-in, more energy lost to evaporation/radiation equal lower temperature of the mash.



TL,DR You're dead right.





Todays dough in I tried a little change. I tipped the entire grist into the water in 2-3 seconds. Then stirred in thoroughly for 1 minute approx. Not a dough ball in sight with a thin mash and fine milling. (10.25lbs and 6.5 gallons of strike water).

Yup...that's what I was getting at. When you combine the loss of heat just from having the lid off with the heat loss from stirring while doughing in during that time and you get a lower final mash temp than perhaps you'd have expected.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Also you have to consider that most people don't have the insulation in place until after dough in is completed so that further reduces heat loss during dough in.

 

[Gavin C]

That's a good point @pricelessbrewing

I button mine up nice and snug first. How much of difference it makes I'm not sure. The reflectix jacket sure does make that easy though.

Todays Fun and Games. A Munich Dunkel Lager

Mash Profile


Protein Rest


Single Decoction


View of clear wort during transfer to FV


Oxygenation


Original Gravity 1.053 (Planned 1.054)