Indoor BIAB

[barleywhore69]

...
I am personally a bit of an environmental nazi and the whole throw away oxygen canister gives me the creeps, but that is just my own neurosis. No one should be as neurotic as me. You oxygenate much faster and perhaps more fully than my aquarium bubbler.

I was mostly thinking about the cost of the oxygen when I thought about wort oxygenation. It must be incredibly frustrating to be that neurotic about recycling. The fact that you mention it like this just from seeing one picture of an oxygen tank seems kind of odd. I complain a lot but that just strikes me as, well, neurotic. I may not sound like it, but I'm sympathizing. Oh, brains! :cross:

 

[soccerdad]

just strikes me as, well, neurotic

don't get me started on why the a-holes that pick up our RC take the plastic bottles and tubs but won't take the caps GRRRRR recycle rage

btw - had not thought of oxygen tanks going with metal RC - I may be able to sleep tonight

 

[Gavin C]

I was mostly thinking about the cost of the oxygen when I thought about wort oxygenation.

The O2 is about $10 for a cylinder at Home Depot. Not sure how many batches it will do. I have done 4 so far with it and it's not empty yet. I have a new one ready to go.

 

[LLBeanJ]

You should be able to get 20-30 batches out of one of those $10 cylinders.

 

[Gavin C]

You should be able to get 20-30 batches out of one of those $10 cylinders.

Good to know. I don't know why but I was expecting 5 or so batches. Might have read it here somewhere.

 

[Gavin C]

I've been reading a lot of posts on mashing. Temperature stability seems to be an issue for some. My rudimentary system seems to provide very stable temperatures. No stirring during my 60-90 minute mashes is done. I confirm temperatures with two thermometers.

These pictures hopefully illustrate this

Stable at 152F

Start of Mash
56 minutes into the mash
End of Mash

 

[barleywhore69]

Is that a winter coat or what? I have one that fits a fermenter perfectly. I need a lid for my pot...

 

[Gavin C]

Is that a winter coat or what? I have one that fits a fermenter perfectly. I need a lid for my pot...

It's a ski jacket that I now use for everyday use. Decent insulation. Certainly keeps me warm. It fits my 10 gallon Megapot very well.

 

[shortyz]

wow very in detail you are with your procedures and measurements. great post!

 

[Gavin C]

wow very in detail you are with your procedures and measurements. great post!

Thanks for the positive feedback. Glad you enjoyed the post. Hope it is of some use to you.

 

[DeMerchant]

Good info Gavin. Very similar to how I brew.

I note you double mill your grains. Any comment on how much that impacts your efficiency?

 

[Gavin C]

Good info Gavin. Very similar to how I brew.

I note you double mill your grains. Any comment on how much that impacts your efficiency?

I don't have any concrete data set but do find my mash efficiency to be predictably in the 85-90% range once I started double milling. This has given me predictable brewhouse efficiencies in the high 70's. With a single pass it was in the 65-70 range but that was earlier on and I was not as accurate with my measures as I am now.

With my setup as it is now and consistent mash and brewhouse efficiencies, I can repeatedly hit my target gravities and volumes. I guess that is more important than the actual number.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Im wondering how many people use a basket or place the bag on a rack.What are the pros and cons of each? I have a wilserbrewer bag. I saw someone was selling a rack with a tight weave like a hop basket.Being the element and temp probe are below the rack wouldn't that create a temp difference below and above rack.No circulation...yet. What rack would you recommend.I need one for the chiller either way.

 

[Gavin C]

Im wondering how many people use a basket or place the bag on a rack.What are the pros and cons of each? I have a wilserbrewer bag. I saw someone was selling a rack with a tight weave like a hop basket.Being the element and temp probe are below the rack wouldn't that create a temp difference below and above rack.No circulation...yet. What rack would you recommend.I need one for the chiller either way.

Not sure I follow you. A basket would be of no benefit to me as my grain bill is easily lifted by hand.

I am not heating with an element

The temperature probe is at about the 3.5 gallon mark (need to check that exactly)

The rack I place at the bottom of the kettle is <1 inch high. Prevents bag damage during heating prior to doughing in and from rest to mash-out.

This is likely not an answer to your question. Sorry

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Not sure I follow you. A basket would be of no benefit to me as my grain bill is easily lifted by hand.

I am not heating with an element

The temperature probe is at about the 3.5 gallon mark (need to check that exactly)

The rack I place at the bottom of the kettle is <1 inch high. Prevents bag damage during heating prior to doughing in and from rest to mash-out.

This is likely not an answer to your question. Sorry

This was supposed to be a new thread.Glitch in the system

 

[DurtyChemist]

85-90% mash efficiency is AWESOME for BIAB. Have you ever considered recirculating your mash while napping?

 

[Gavin C]

85-90% mash efficiency is AWESOME for BIAB. Have you ever considered recirculating your mash while napping?

My nap is not central to my mash technique but I definitely see the benefits of a recirculating mash. I don't anticipate doing this without going electric. There would be significant heat loss from the pump and hoses requiring some level of automated heat control otherwise the loss of control would likely offset the benefits of recirculation.

I don't know if 100% mash efficiency is possible (probably is) assuming correct theoretical sugar contents in the grain bill.

Q: Would going from 85-90% efficiency to 95-100% mash efficiency justify the added cost?

A: I think so. Always good to aim higher. A fun new project to boot.

Thanks for the input

 

[Gavin C]

This was supposed to be a new thread.Glitch in the system

No worries. Apologies for my nonsensical reply.

 

[Gavin C]

I don't believe you need to do a mash out while doing BIAB since your wort will be brought to a boil shortly after pulling the bag of grains out. You can skip this step if you want without adverse consequences.

Just an update from by brew yesterday. I eliminated the mash-out rest as you advised. My brewhouse efficiency dropped from 77 last brew to 72 this time. No other changes were made and the grain bill was comparable.

I know this is only 1 data point but means I will add the mash-out rest next brew and see if I can regain the lost ground.

Thanks again for the pointers

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Just an update from by brew yesterday. I eliminated the mash-out rest as you advised. My brewhouse efficiency dropped from 77 last brew to 72 this time. No other changes were made and the grain bill was comparable.

I know this is only 1 data point but means I will add the mash-out rest next brew and see if I can regain the lost ground.

Thanks again for the pointers

Same recipe? Otherwise hard to compare, especially if larger grain bill for the 72%.
Could you list your steps for the mash out (beginning with dough in) and the non mash out (dough in on)?

If everything's identical, it should be within 2% or so efficiency, which is within normal variation from brew to brew. Make sure if you don't mash out that you stir the mash thoroughly before pulling the grain bag, which might be what was missing from the non mashout?

 

[Gavin C]

Same recipe? Otherwise hard to compare, especially if larger grain bill for the 72%.
Could you list your steps for the mash out (beginning with dough in) and the non mash out (dough in on)?

If everything's identical, it should be within 2% or so efficiency, which is within normal variation from brew to brew. Make sure if you don't mash out that you stir the mash thoroughly before pulling the grain bag, which might be what was missing from the non mashout?

The process I used was the same as I outlined in my earlier posts. The mash being stirred constantly as temperature raised from 154-170. Instead of a 10 minute rest I went ahead with lautering.

I agree that a different grain bill introduces a lot of additional variables. The grain bill weight was almost identical. Target OG was 1.054. Actual OG was 1.050

Still well within the BJCP style guides for an ESB. The malt/hop balance should still be OK. Just a bit irksome to be so off as I had reduced my base malt a little (1/2lb) to compensate for anticipated 77% eff.

 

[Brew_G]

Gavin...for your mash out, do you raise to 170 and then let it rest? Or do you raise to 170 and then lauter as soon as it gets to 170?

I realize that most agree that mash out isn't necessary for BIAB, but I'm curious as to your process. If it's a simple matter of just keeping the bag in the mash (and stirring) while temp gets to 170, then there's no extra time "lost" to mash out.

 

[Gavin C]

Gavin...for your mash out, do you raise to 170 and then let it rest? Or do you raise to 170 and then lauter as soon as it gets to 170?

I realize that most agree that mash out isn't necessary for BIAB, but I'm curious as to your process. If it's a simple matter of just keeping the bag in the mash (and stirring) while temp gets to 170, then there's no extra time "lost" to mash out.

Up til now I have been raising to 170 and then allowing a 10 minute undisturbed rest. After receiving advice on the mash-out being unwarranted I changed it for my last brew; omitting the 10 minute rest.

With both methods the mash is stirred constantly during the raise in temps. (takes 9-10 mins to get to 170)

Both methods the bag is not removed until the mash is 170F

 

[Brew_G]

Up til now I have been raising to 170 and then allowing a 10 minute undisturbed rest. After receiving advice on the mash-out being unwarranted I changed it for my last brew; omitting the 10 minute rest.

With both methods the mash is stirred constantly during the raise in temps. (takes 9-10 mins to get to 170)

Both methods the bag is not removed until the mash is 170F

Gotcha.

I'm interested to see the efficiency results the next time you mash out.

 

[Gavin C]

Gotcha.

I'm interested to see the efficiency results the next time you mash out.

I'll post results. Might not be for 3-4 weeks. Have 10 gallons in my fermentation chamber now to replace 2 kegs both of which are getting low.

No room for any more brew till this last ESB brew is completed its fermentation. Then crash the two carboys and keg.

 

[Gavin C]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/nut-brown-ag-30187/

Just tapped this keg yesterday. Very please with the result

Nutty, smooth, foamy head with lacing all the way, Deep amber-brown color.
Malty with a slight residual sweetness

Thanks to Lil Sparky for sharing his creation.

Changed the yeast to WYeast NB1945, fermented at the cooler end of this strain's range.

Reduced the grain bill to account for projected efficiency higher than the recipe's 70%

 

[soccerdad]

good lookin beer ... makes me thirsty

 

[Gavin C]

good lookin beer ... makes me thirsty

Justified having a beer early today as it's Stephen's day and I really needed a picture before the light fades.

 

[Psylocide]

Justified having a beer early today as it's Stephen's day and I really needed a picture before the light fades.

No justification needed after 10 am, I always say.

 

[Gavin C]

No justification needed after 10 am, I always say.

It's always 10am somewhere