Imperial Saison.......... an oxymoron??? of course it is.

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Owly055

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I brewed what I term an "Imperial Saison" today (tongue in cheek). The only thing that makes it a Saison is the Danstar / Lallamand Belle Saison yeast.


So what makes a Saison??? The style guidelines are largely BS where a Saison is concerned........... thousands of small farms brewed Saisons, and each was more or less unique to that farm. Likely most Saisons were low alcohol, as they were served to field workers (reputedly), and drunken field workers are NOT an asset. Did all of it go to the field hands? Or did some farmers brew for their own table as well........ An "imperial" version with which to drink themselves into oblivion every evening. I suspect that this was often the case.
The Saison story looks like a brew of opportunity, a wildly diverse grain bill, that might also have included cull fruits, and perhaps grains that had little market value. It's a story of using the hops that grew on the trellis over the entry gate......... whatever those were. Likely the IBUs varied greatly, but were usually quite low........... But who knows?? Some farmers were likely "hop heads", and may have pushed the IBUs up as high as 30.


I've brewed a number of Saisons this year with a variety of grains and hops....... all good. I started out with noble hops, and other hops from Europe and the UK, and moved on to other hops. One of my favorites was 100% Nugget.


Today (and yesterday), I brewed an "Imperial Saison", which I expect to exceed 8% abv. OG was 1.081. The grain bill included the usual suspects. 3 gallon brew included 3 pounds of two row, and a pound of dark munich.........But it also included 3 pounds of Wheat Montana 7 grain cereal (rolled grains), and a pound and a half of sugar.

The mash was long and complex...... The cereal was cooked at about 180, cooled and had amylase added..... and was mashed for an hour by itself. I then added the two row and Munich, and raised it slowly back into the mash range, heavily insulated it and left to work for 4 hours. When it reached 110F, I tossed in a handful of 2 row and covered with saran wrap floating on the surface for 12 hours insulated and on a heat pad........Mainly because I didn't want to finish the brew that evening, and innoculating with lacto made more sense than just leaving it over night.

As you can see, I didn't have a real "plan"....... a little sour was OK.....but not necessary. I don't expect any sour character to be detectible......... and I don't care. The idea was to run a "loose process".

I hit a PPG of 21 (estimated) with the 7 grain cereal..........not too shabby.

Hops are NOT European. This beer is anchored with Amarillo..... 2 ounces of it, one at 3 minutes, and one a 15 minute whirlpool at a starting temp of 160. A quarter ounce of Summit FWH for bittering, and half an ounce each of Willamette and Calliente at 3 minutes. 3.25 total ounces of hops for 3 gallons of beer.

Pitched Belle Saison at 70F.... Currently boiling away at 78.......... I pitched quite heavily from the trub of a previous brew......... I want plenty of spice and fruit. My thinking is that the heavy pitch will reduce the character of the Saison yeast somewhat, but the high fermentation temp will promote it somewhat. This will ferment entirely at indoor ambient temp......NO AC, NO heat. Ambient will drop to around 50 tonight, and probably hit 90 tomorrow (indoors). I'm making zero effort to manage temperature, but this IS a Saison yeast.

Comments??


H.W.
 
Well, what I can say is that an imperial saison does not seem weird to me. Brewed one around 8% myself once. Had a truely imperial one yesterday in fact. Stone´s Matt´s Burning Rosids. Imperial Cherrywood Smoked Saison. Loved it. I got so many different notes from it. Truly amazing complexity. Floral notes, fruityness, maltyness, caramel, spicy, smokey, etc...and all of them working together in wonderful ways and constantly changing ways during a zip. Got me 4 bottles to cellar too.

So yeah, imperial saison can be bloody cool. Yours could be quite cool. Not sure on the dark munich and sugar myself, but it makes sense for a certain variation. If you just let the fermentation run as you do this could be nice.

Look forward to the results!
 
That yeast is a beast. I just yesterday bottled a simple grain bill starting at 1.056 and it ended at 1.002(!) which is about 7% ABV. You'll hit 8 easy.
 
Yeah, think it`ll get higher ABV than you think. Saisons finish DRY.
 
Well, what I can say is that an imperial saison does not seem weird to me. Brewed one around 8% myself once. Had a truely imperial one yesterday in fact. Stone´s Matt´s Burning Rosids. Imperial Cherrywood Smoked Saison. Loved it. I got so many different notes from it. Truly amazing complexity. Floral notes, fruityness, maltyness, caramel, spicy, smokey, etc...and all of them working together in wonderful ways and constantly changing ways during a zip. Got me 4 bottles to cellar too.

So yeah, imperial saison can be bloody cool. Yours could be quite cool. Not sure on the dark munich and sugar myself, but it makes sense for a certain variation. If you just let the fermentation run as you do this could be nice.

Look forward to the results!

As I said in my OP, the field hands obviously did not partake of "imperial" saison.... It would have been for the farmer and his family only......

I'm not sure what would be appropriate for some color in a saison..... Munich 20 was handy, and will contribute some color and flavor, which I don't think will be out of place. What an original Belgian farmer would have used for grains is debatable..... It's quite possible he might have home malted some grains and used some unmalted grains as well. In home malting, the process could result in about anything........ I hope to do some home malting myself this year on a small scale.

Sugar was intended merely to raise the ABV without creating a heavy beer......... Sugar has not always been cheap and readily available, and quite likely honey might have been incorporated into an "imperial" saison reserved for the farmer and his family only. Bee hives would be a natural part of a small European farm since the earliest days of agriculture. Honey is an expensive ingredient, and my experience is that it contributes little or nothing in terms of flavor in that sort of quantity.


H.W.
 
Definitely looking forward to results. I am planning an 7-8% saison with Belle Saison yeast that I am really hoping to let it age for a year or two, similar to Cuvee Des Jonquilles from Brasserie Bailleux, had a bottle for almost 5 years (first bottle of beer I bought to plan to age for a long period and bought it right after meeting my current fiance). So I want to lay this in and let it age so its something I can special serve at our wedding.
 
I meant the comment on the dark munich and sugar purely in a way that I myself would use other things, but that in the context of a saison they of course work and make sense as you explained too. I am one to add biscuit for the darker notes, combined with perhaps some caramel wheat. Will do a lot of experimenting with unusual grains for saisons in the winter.
 
When you've got yeast strains for saison that ferment to single digit SG it's not hard to push imperial territory.

My latest one came out at ~11% and now it's on cherries and expected to get to 11.8%. The grain bill was based on a tripel, however. I thought the yeast would quit well before that. It's a triple saison!
 
... Reading this thread made me wonder about that yeast alcohol tolerance.

Though you appeared to have mashed very hot, so there's that.
 
Fantome Saison is 8% according to the bottle and it is probably the most famous saison.
 
Next you'll be brewing imperial table beer!

Btw, 'Imperial' mild, XXXX, used to be a real thing back in the day with OGs north of 1100 and served unaged.
 
... Reading this thread made me wonder about that yeast alcohol tolerance.

Though you appeared to have mashed very hot, so there's that.

I actually didn't mash hot. I pre-cooked the 7 grain cereal, then cooled down to typical mash temps before adding amylase. I allowed it to mash by itself, then added the regular malted grains and returned to mash temp. There won't be a lot of unfermentables in this........

Next week I will be doing my first brettanomyces brew using Wyeast 5151....

I have two LHBS within range............ one 80 miles off and the other 100, and neither stock a huge selection of yeasts..... the closer one is more convenient, and more reasonable, but the selection is less. The other one I hit only a couple of times a year.

Unfortunately shipping on exotic yeasts is prohibitive unless piggybacked on another order. I never make a trip to the LHBS unless I have other business, and on the flip side, I never go to the towns were the LHBS is without making a stop. Other customers look at my collection of stuff and ask me what I'm brewing...... they live in the city and buy per brew. I live far out in the country and want a variety of this and that as "inventory" so I can sit down at the computer and put together a brew based on what I have...... A little wheat, some rye, some Munich, a bit of several crystal malts, some roast barley, some Midnight wheat, a little Victory, and about 15-20 varieties of hops I buy by the pound and half pound.......... I don't brew like "normal people". I don't take a recipe and go to the LHBS..... I take ingredients and craft a beer from what I have.................Does that make any sense at all?? ;-)


H.W.
 
I don't brew like "normal people". I don't take a recipe and go to the LHBS..... I take ingredients and craft a beer from what I have.

"normal people"? i think that's how most of us are. I have a LHBS 5 miles from my house but it's still rather buy in bulk and have everything on hand.
 
"normal people"? i think that's how most of us are. I have a LHBS 5 miles from my house but it's still rather buy in bulk and have everything on hand.

I probably shouldn't use the term "normal people" in that way............ However everybody I meet at the LHBS is buying malts for a specific brew..... a few pounds of this and a few pounds of that. I rarely leave the store with less than 50 pounds of grain, and my typical 2.5 gallon brew takes only 5 or 6 pounds. I keep about 150 pounds of grain on hand typically. I don't think that would be considered "normal" in my area...........but neither would brewing at least once a week. My "Imperial Saison" is brew 40 for 2015.

H.W.
 
Sounds like you're more interested in the story of your beers than the beers themselves.

:confused:

There's more to beer than beer alone. Drinking beer is an event widely enhanced by its way of becoming. One enhances the other, very symbiotic. Sorry you've missed that rich experience so far, but there's still time.

Besides, process is as important as ingredients. That process includes the acquisition of those ingredients, and a 160 mile round trip to obtain them will make one think well ahead and be creative to brew with what's on hand. Shopping with more in mind than just to fill that one recipe opens that door.
 
:confused:

There's more to beer than beer alone. Drinking beer is an event widely enhanced by its way of becoming. One enhances the other, very symbiotic. Sorry you've missed that rich experience so far, but there's still time.

Besides, process is as important as ingredients. That process includes the acquisition of those ingredients, and a 160 mile round trip to obtain them will make one think well ahead and be creative to brew with what's on hand. Shopping with more in mind than just to fill that one recipe opens that door.


No part of brewing is more fun (to me) than looking in my "larder" when it's kind of depleted, and crafting a recipe to use what I have on hand. It forces you to be creative.... use that molasses or brown sugar, the rice that's left in the cupboard, some honey, the last of that box of rolled oats..... Oh what the heck.... How about running those 3 apples left in the bag through the blender and throwing that in... or those few sweet potatoes dripping with brown sugar glaze left over from Thanksgiving dinner? I may not have the hops I want........ perhaps all I have left is some Magnum...... Let's see what Magnum will do for flavor and aroma, or more recently Calliente.......which was on sale dirt cheap and I bought half a pound just because......... I'm out of Mosaic..... so how about trying to achieve the same effect with a blend of some Cascade, Ahtanum, Motueka, Calliente, and Amarillo........Which ones should I use, what proportions and when??

The results are sometimes "magical".......... sometimes not, and rarely really poor..... always educational. You don't learn what works and what doesn't by following recipes... Learn to brew by brewing............


H.W.
 
@Owly055

The reason why I was wondering about that yeast alcohol tolerance is because, well, as you might know, its quite the attenuator. I did 3 brews with it, and FG's were the following : 1.001, 1.003 and 0.998.

I know that a 1.081 brew isn't a 1.050 brew. But a 1.081 OG will probably bring you a hair away from 10 ABV (I guesstimated a FG of 1.006, which appears realistic).
 
@Owly055

The reason why I was wondering about that yeast alcohol tolerance is because, well, as you might know, its quite the attenuator. I did 3 brews with it, and FG's were the following : 1.001, 1.003 and 0.998.

I know that a 1.081 brew isn't a 1.050 brew. But a 1.081 OG will probably bring you a hair away from 10 ABV (I guesstimated a FG of 1.006, which appears realistic).

I always seem to end up above my expected ABV anyway... so you are probably right. Belle Saison is said to be good up to 11.5%, so it probably won't crap out on me. It probably will be a true "Imperial"........

I'm wondering if this is a brew that should be aged a few months??


H.W.
 

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