I'm this close to giving up. Seriously.

[shecky]

I'm all for you trying to work this out. Count me in the camp of those who believe the vows mean something. You should try your level best to make sure it works out as it should.

However, there has to come a point, and you decide when that is, that it's obvious that A) you can work this out with time or B) it's just not happening. You're a young guy with some issues married to a young woman with apparently more issues that don't seem to have been addressed.

If you have to knock her on the head and drag her to counseling, do it. If she's not willing to put in the effort, that should be some sort of sign, no?

 

[shecky]

You're getting comments for guys that say "****, that was ME and I lived that for 5 years until I got out." Everyone has to live their own life, but it always helps to look at someone else's mistakes so you don't make the same.

Amen. I've relayed my experience, for what it's worth. I'll say that my ex was sexually abused by a family member. I thought I could rescue her or save her. I couldn't.

She's nearing 42 yo now and hasn't remarried yet. We've been divorced for almost 11 years. Says something, methinks.

 

[bernerbrau]

Just so we're clear, I also wouldn't be half-assed sanitizing my cusswords if the forum didn't automatically filter them out. Which, while completely off topic, seems rather absurd in a ****, non-public portion of a website consisting entirely of people old enough to imbibe.

Hell, I'm not trying to rescue her, I'm just living for those rare moments where she totally floors me and acts like an adult. I dunno, I guess those few cases convinced me she was capable of maturing with time.

 

[kjung]

I'm all for you trying to work this out. Count me in the camp of those who believe the vows mean something. You should try your level best to make sure it works out as it should.

However, there has to come a point, and you decide when that is, that it's obvious that A) you can work this out with time or B) it's just not happening. You're a young guy with some issues married to a young woman with apparently more issues that don't seem to have been addressed.

If you have to knock her on the head and drag her to counseling, do it. If she's not willing to put in the effort, that should be some sort of sign, no?

My sentiments exactly. Take some advice from TWO guys who have been where you are. Do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to try and make it work, but if it's not, at some point, you have to decide when to cut your losses.
Please read my last post. She NEEDS individual therapy, and you both need couples counselling.

 

[bernerbrau]

However, there has to come a point, and you decide when that is, that it's obvious that A) you can work this out with time or B) it's just not happening.

Well the point is, I don't think I'm there yet. If I cut and run right now, there's no way I can honestly look anyone in the face and claim I did everything I could.

 

[shecky]

Well the point is, I don't think I'm there yet. If I cut and run right now, there's no way I can honestly look anyone in the face and claim I did everything I could.

Then keep working, but make damn sure she gets some counseling and you two get some together. Also make damn sure to not let your feelings cloud your vision. Difficult, I know, but it must be done.

 

[bernerbrau]

Please read my last post. She NEEDS individual therapy, and you both need couples counselling.

Hell, I need meds to keep me from screwing around on the computer all morning and to be productive at work.

Just went to my health insurance website and left a voicemail with a marriage counselor. Only Ph.D I could find was the one I tried before who doesn't take friday appointments.

I'll probably suggest we both get individual counseling, because I'm sure I could benefit too.

 

[Donasay]

Oh, and... I'm quite positive she'll be penitent in a day or two. She always is.

Which makes it all the more difficult to talk about her reactions because after all... she said sorry...

If she was really sorry and learned her lesson she wouldn't bring it up again.

 

[farmbrewernw]

Let's face it you've already made up your mind about what your going to do, I hope it works out for you. I think most of us have given you good advice but don't look to us to say what you are doing is what we would do. We are not trying to cut you down or say your not manly at all just trying to look at this from the outside and give you the advise we would want to hear.

 

[Kronin]

I swear, half the time I do this she's perfectly fine with it. The other half it's like I've married a serial killer.

This is the definition of a woman. IRRATIONAL. no way around it in my opinion. not that that makes it easier... i hate this kind of BS.


p.s. this is very quotable, lol

 

[bernerbrau]

I've put in a call to a therapist. If I don't hear back from them today I'll call another one tomorrow and just make my way down the list.

Sorry to spurn the "dump her ass and run" folks. I'm really just not convinced it's unsalvageable at this point.

 

[babalu87]

 

[IrregularPulse]

I agree that you also shouldn't just dump and run. I agree Vows mean something. it may sound like I don't from my previous posts. if it does I'm sorry I came off that way. But I will not put personal Happiness below words if the situation is unfixable. Do what you can and need to, but based off her actions thus far, be prepared to walked away if need be. Take the advice from the guys who went through this, not me I got lucky with a good from 1st time around, and don't shrug it off as them telling you to give up.
Hope you here back from the therapists.
I hope you at the very least get the couch time you need. Even if she refuses therapy and this marriage ends up a bust, still go for yourself, work on your self esteem. I'm sure you sick of hearing it, but it's very obvious it's a big issue in your life and a little confidence in yourself can make a world of difference in the way you live your life.

And That's just funnY!

 

[Beernip]

I've put in a call to a therapist. If I don't hear back from them today I'll call another one tomorrow and just make my way down the list.

Sorry to spurn the "dump her ass and run" folks. I'm really just not convinced it's unsalvageable at this point.

This is the best course of action. It is a marriage and until all possible fixes have been tried twice don't give up on it. Things can get better.

 

[nibiyabi]

OK bernerbits, I just read every single one of your posts in this thread. You should be commended for your extraordinary efforts in this case. Try to resist the urge to be an armchair analyst, however. Unless your wife experiences equally long bouts of crippling depression to go with her bouts of mania (usually lasting several days, weeks, or months, not just several hours), she likely is not suffering from bipolar disorder. Since you mentioned Aunt Flo, it's possible that she is suffering from PMDD, which is basically like PMS during that time of the month only the hormone imbalance is exponentially worse than what is normal and it can lead to wild mood fluctuations including rage and aggression. Of course, all I have is a B.S. in Psychology (well, 2 weeks from now I will ), so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt (i.e., maybe mention it to your marriage counselor as a possibility).

Secondly, you are absolutely taking the right step by initiating couples' therapy. Don't worry about seeking out individual therapy -- a proper couples' therapist will see each member of the couple once or twice to evaulate if individual therapy for one or both of you would be more suitable. If she (or you) does indeed have some mental disorder, the therapist would likely refer you to have that sorted out first, and then engage in couples' therapy afterwards.

As far as your worry that the therapist may side with your wife, it shouldn't happen but it does. One of my professors (who is a female couples' therapist, by the way) recommends that in relationships where the husband is shy or timid and the wife is aggressive and/or very talkative and outspoken (which seems to be the case for you), the couple might do well to seek out a male therapist.

Bottom line, my recommendation to you is to find a male, licensed couples' therapist (with a Ph.D. in clinical or at least counseling psychology) and move forward from there as he recommends. Good luck, and it's very smart of you to try to tackle this so early on in marriage, rather than waiting a decade when all bridges have been burned.

 

[bernerbrau]

Bottom line, my recommendation to you is to find a male, licensed couples' therapist (with a Ph.D. in clinical or at least counseling psychology) and move forward from there as he recommends.

Unfortunately, the only male Ph.D marriage counselor I could find doesn't work fridays. And that's my wife's day off. Everyone else is a female LMPC or whatever that one is.

Heh, the first time I heard about PMDD I was like, gee, that sounds... uncanny. I did suggest she ask her OBGYN about Yaz but she went on O3C for a while instead because our insurance covered it. That made her totally batsh1t so we went back to condoms.

 

[golfnmotorcycles]

I'm not sure how I found it, but I read thru just about every post in here. First, and probably most importantly, I will say I admire your determination. When my exwife (yeah, that makes any advice I offer worthless ) said she wanted a divorce, I only thought I was determined to explore every possible repair before pulling up camp. So lets see....almost 8 years later I'm about ready to try marriage again. This one loves to work, makes decent money, loves me, really loves my daughter, doesn't mind that I drink, take off on the bike a lot, play golf occasionally, and now, brew at least once a month. How cool is that? The ex....she remarried shortly after the divorce, had another child, and now is back in a similar state of misery that she found herself in with me. And I thought it was me all along....crazy a** b***h.

So again, I admire your determination, and that's really all I wanted to add.

Oh, and any chance you can tell me how much that body shot cost? Best place I've found 'em is Coyote Ugly and their about $20. For that kinda coin I'd rather go to a strip club and get a better return on my investment.

 

[bernerbrau]

Oh, and any chance you can tell me how much that body shot cost?

No clue because my dad's wife paid for it, but it was coyote ugly.

 

[macabra11]

Nice. Do you bust every guy with self esteem issues by telling him you think he has lower self esteem than he thinks? Do you not get that it's a vicious effing cycle and the more self esteem I can convince myself I have, the more I can hang onto in the long run?
......
Did I mention I probably landed a 6-month contract with possibility of hire and a fairly decent pay increase? Don't want to jinx it but does anyone want to at least congratulate me on THAT so I'm not just feeling like an ass for both questioning this relationship AND pissing on all yall's advice?

OK, I read this ENTIRE post and have come to a couple conclusions.
1. BOTH of you are insecure as f**k - You need constant confirmation that you are a good, decent, hard-working guy that wants to "make it work", and your wife thinks you are some sort of man whore that was sent from hell to torment her about her past issues
2. Counseling is DEFINITELY needed, and I am glad that you are actively pursuing that. Just remember - it takes two!
3. DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR FAMILY'S OPINIONS!!!! This is YOUR life and you have to be happy. If you are happy with your wife, GREAT! If you find that it is not going to work, and maybe you would be happier with someone else, then that is YOUR right. Not your family's right.

And just a general statement that I think everyone would agree with... Please DON'T THINK ABOUT HAVING KIDS IN THE NEAR FUTURE!!!! If you stay in this marriage, it will probably happen sometime down the road. But be sure that BOTH of you are happy and SANE first and foremost.

Good luck and God bless brother.

 

[reanime]

phew. Finally read all the posts!

Okay. This site needs a marriage/relationship sub forum!

You know what you want. You want to stick it out. Only you can decide that. There has to be something that bonds you to her that trumps all insanity.

It took a few pages for it to come out but you finally relayed she certainly has her previous life baggage that is causing/fueling her issues with your relationship. At least you are aware of that. I will not try and compare my own situation to yours other than to comment that at least you have that knowledge. I have difficulty in my marriage but I do not seem to have a full grasp on my wife's own baggage to understnad where she is coming from. Of course it is not up to you or me to address our wives own mental states that contribute to/detract from their ability to bond to us. It is up to them. That is the tough part. We cannot MAKE them address their issues or seek counseling. My wife is reluctant to get counseling though we have done it, she easily lets it slip by the wayside. I would recommend counseling for yourself at the very least. While therapeutic in some ways, the advice, venting you do here will ultimately not provide you the best help for YOUR personal situation. I too have very few close personal friends (I have had them in the past but not currently) and am painfully shy and have difficulty socializing. It is helpful to an extant posting/venting on these interwebby forums but it does not take the place of a real personal face to face human contact. A counselor can help with this. If you find a good counselor at times it will feel like, duh, I could have figured that out on my own, but really you can't. They can at the very least let your problems become clear and cut through all the crap simply by letting you talk your way into that discovery... Okay I did not explain that well. Just try it though.

You don't want us to tell you what you should do and that is good. All the advice/commentary here stems from the fact that this is a very charged emotional situation that most all folks can identify with in their own personal way. Though each person is identifying with THEIR OWN situation.

It took a while (many pages and posts) but you have now made it clear what course of action YOU WANT. So go with that. At first you you did not seem clear what you wanted, thus all the advice based on others experience. Now that you are clear you want to work this through, I say strengthen your resolve, delineate to yourself WHY you want to stick it out. Once you have your reasons firmly laid out in your mind, do what it takes to make it work.

Start with the only person you can change. Yourself. Get what you need to cope and work this out and keep the communication open with your wife. That is the hardest part. Believe me I know... Guess I better go try and reopen communication with my own wife now...

 

[thdewitt]

My wife and I had some major problems early in our marriage. I ended up screwing up and my wife demanded I go to counseling or she wanted a divorce. I really did not want to go, but I agreed. I was very worried the female counselor would take my wife's side because I ultimately made the last mistake that got us to counseling. Long story short, the counselor did not take my wife's side and actually threw a lot of the blame her way. After a few visits of that my wife no longer thought we needed counseling. I thought it was great. I finally had someone on my side. We have been married 11 years now and have 3 kids.

 

[Beernip]

Unfortunately, the only male Ph.D marriage counselor I could find doesn't work fridays. And that's my wife's day off. Everyone else is a female LMPC or whatever that one is.

Heh, the first time I heard about PMDD I was like, gee, that sounds... uncanny. I did suggest she ask her OBGYN about Yaz but she went on O3C for a while instead because our insurance covered it. That made her totally batsh1t so we went back to condoms.

Honestly I would suggest a female counselor. Your wife may more easily take advice from a women and at the least she can't blame "men" for ganging up on her.

 

[nibiyabi]

My advice was by no means absolute -- the majority of female counselors are going to be thoroughly professional and not pick sides. I was assuming it was easy to find a therapist (like it is out here) and thus you'd have "pick of the litter", so to speak. If the counselor you meet doesn't live up to your standards (try to decide this during the first session), try another. Most are very good so you are unlikely to drop two or even one psychologist.

 

[bernerbrau]

Well I basically have the directory on my insurance company's web site, and I can search by distance from my home. In any case, I have an appointment set up for April 3 for us with a marriage counselor (Angela Mathew, M.S., LMFT -). Not a Ph.D., but she is a LMFT. I just have to be careful because apparently some bible-belt type colleges can also graduate LMFTs.

 

[kjung]

Good for you ! Good luck to you.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Well I basically have the directory on my insurance company's web site, and I can search by distance from my home. In any case, I have an appointment set up for April 3 for us with a marriage counselor (Angela Mathew, M.S., LMFT -). Not a Ph.D., but she is a LMFT. I just have to be careful because apparently some bible-belt type colleges can also graduate LMFTs.

Oh good luck. Glad to see the appt.
maybe call her to speak before the appt to get and idea on her religious views. i'd hate to see you marriage get counceled according to jesus, unles you model your life around that. Or just keep an eye out for her degree on her wall to see where it's from.

Sorta OT but Sorta On, I just heard some freinds of ours got divorced recently after being married maybe 2 years. They had a mutual agreement that they just rushed into things and weren't ready. She has now moved to Texas and he remains in Ohio. It was an easy mutually agreed upon divorce. Sometimes it doesn't work out, doesn't mean it's horrible or the people didn't try.

Hopefully you guys work things out and live happily ever after, just wanted to share a personal/on topic story with an opposite outlook on divorce than most posts here on the subject.

 

[Aleforge]

I don't have much to add as everyone has covered it, just wanted to say good luck to you and hope you guys get things worked out! Marriage is hard, and takes a lot of compromise and hard work. My wife and I had some rough early years and stuck through it.

 

[Reverend JC]

First-

Good Luck. It is hard reconciling differences.

Second-

Was this body shot done straight out of her Va-jayjay. If it was off the stomach or neck, what the hell is the big deal? Yes, if covered previously I am sorry. Not enough time to read it all at work.

 

[sterling214]

It's been said already, but is so important that it should be said again. What your family thinks should have ZERO bearing on how you handle your relationship with your wife. You are doing the right thing by trying everything to resolve your relationship problems. If you put in all the work that is needed on your end to fix the relationship, and you find that you just aren't going to be happy, divorce is the way to go.

 

[bernerbrau]

So last thursday I was out at the monthly centre{source} party when a friend offered me a ticket to Sharks@Predators in downtown Nashville. A tech company here in town provides the Predators with IT services, so they have a dedicated table set up for them in the party box, and my friend gives them a lot of word-of-mouth business. Dynamite location, plus free food (think fajitas, brisket, baked potatoes, dessert) and beer. So I leave her a text letting her know the situation and... well, the rest is history. Get a phone call in the car on the way there (with people listening) and I get bitched out (after all, she is the hockey fan, not me, so I had no reason to be going). Spend the whole time moping because I can't seem to snap myself out of the bad mood she's put me in. Get home and it's the Spanish Inquisition all over again. Get crap like "I don't know why you set up that appointment, it's going to be as obvious to her as it is to me that you're the one who needs changing". And of course in the morning she's all apologetic and "feels bad about what she said".

Again let me remind people that I only really get one night away per week, and most times I have to force myself to even try to be social.

Appointment in two days and I'm spending all my time worrying that the counselor will take her side, or make me "open up" and say something that makes the situation a thousand times worse. And all the same I feel like I shouldn't have wasted so much time in getting to a counselor.

Also, I realize I've been a bit of a ghost here lately. Can't do personal websites at work so I really only get a couple hours in the morning anymore. According to my wife "it's not healthy to be on the computer all day". It's my freaking JOB to be on the computer all day.