I'm still getting infections

[JnJ]

Would not bio-toxins wash off during the mechanical cleansing that should proceed disinfection? Like botox from botulism, for instance, shouldn't that stuff pretty much wash or rinse off?

Well we were just talking about the effects of heat, but yes it "should" wash off. ( a little off topic but) But, if I handed you a bottle and said "this bottle was contaminated with botulism (most deadly substance know to man) but I washed and sanitized it" would you use it? My answer is Hell No!!! I'd get another bottle.

 

[rohanski]

poindexter,

I didn't use rum in the last one on saturday. My batches typically start within 12 hours and I always use new yeast.

The only other variable that I haven't changed is the funnel although it sits in starsan 24 hours a day and this last time I soaked it in bleach. It looks very clean. I am wondering if after all of this could it be the funnel? The only thing left is something in the air. I live out in the sticks and there has been a lot of stuff floating around because of all of the rain we had this year.

 

[jdoiv]

You shouldn't leave things sitting in sanitizer for extended periods. It will get sort of slimy and impart a chemical taste to your beer. You are better off, washing it and storing it then putting it into the sanitzer prior to use. I'll let things set for 20 minutes or so.

 

[rohanski]

A chemical taste over what I have now would be welcome. LOL

 

[Alamo_Beer]

Maybe the chemical taste is what you have now?

 

[rohanski]

It has morphed from real crappy sour bandaid to sour and thin tasting with a slight bitterness. JNJ has the same problem but his was not bitter.

 

[Beerthoven]

It has morphed from real crappy sour bandaid to sour and thin tasting with a slight bitterness. JNJ has the same problem but his was not bitter.

Maybe I missed something earlier, but didn't you just start this beer 3 days ago?

 

[rohanski]

No this was the one before that. I believe I'm around 11 or 12 bad ones right now. I kinda lost count. The one I started 3 days ago has a real pungent smell. I have not smelled that that I can recall. As I said it has been so long since I have done a kolsh that came out good I don't remember what it smelled like.

 

[Poindexter]

Well we were just talking about the effects of heat, but yes it "should" wash off. ( a little off topic but) But, if I handed you a bottle and said "this bottle was contaminated with botulism (most deadly substance know to man) but I washed and sanitized it" would you use it? My answer is Hell No!!! I'd get another bottle.

I went ahead and looked it up, botox is in the manual here at work. 8 distinct strains of Clostridium botulinum, only two generally associated with infections in humans. Spore former, yes. C. botulinum spores can survive 100°C (rendundant I know) for 5+ hours, but C. botulinum spores will be rendered non-viable after five minutes at 120°C. 120°C ~ 248°F.

C. botulinum toxin or 'botox' is just a polypeptide, a mid sized protein. The toxin is denatured by heat at 80°C (~176°F) more or less instantly, the polypetide toxin will also be instantly rendered harmless on contact with a solution of 10% bleach in water.

Would I use a bottle brought known to be contaminated with Botox? Yes I would. Would I try to disinfect a bottle that was not mechanically clean glass first, no I wouldn't. I dunno if Star-San works on Anthrax or whatever else, but I know bleach does.

[/highjack]

rohan... I bet your kolsch is going to be fine, I have smelled some really funky stuff out the airlock just with the 10 or so batches I have done. But I do agree about not storing your funnel in the disinfectant. If it is mechanically clean to the naked eye in strong light there isn't much growing on it so it should disinfect quite easily when the time comes.

 

[JnJ]

I went ahead and looked it up, botox is in the manual here at work. 8 distinct strains of Clostridium botulinum, only two generally associated with infections in humans. Spore former, yes. C. botulinum spores can survive 100°C (rendundant I know) for 5+ hours, but C. botulinum spores will be rendered non-viable after five minutes at 120°C. 120°C ~ 248°F.

C. botulinum toxin or 'botox' is just a polypeptide, a mid sized protein. The toxin is denatured by heat at 80°C (~176°F) more or less instantly, the polypetide toxin will also be instantly rendered harmless on contact with a solution of 10% bleach in water.

Would I use a bottle brought known to be contaminated with Botox? Yes I would. Would I try to disinfect a bottle that was not mechanically clean glass first, no I wouldn't. I dunno if Star-San works on Anthrax or whatever else, but I know bleach does.

[/highjack]

Ok, you did your homework and the numbers are pretty good. But, you incorrectly use the term Botox, Botox is derived from A. Botulinum, not C. Botulinum.
Also, when considering the thermal resistance of the spores you have to also consider the pH and salt content of the environment the spores are in, which can affect the temperature at which the spores can survive. 10% household bleach can render the toxin harmless, but it is not instant, you need a 15 – 20 minute contact time to ensure you have inactivated the toxins/spores.
Would I use a bottle contaminated with Botox (A. Bot) yes, would I use a bottle contaminated with C.Bot, hell no. It is the most lethal substance known to man with an LD-50 of 1ng/kg. I would get a new bottle. My life is worth more than the risk. Now lets give rohanski his thread back and we can discuss this stuff some place else. Sorry Rohanski!!

 

[Poindexter]

Here is one for you two. What day did you each brew your last consistent "good" batch, and what day did you each brew your first "bad" batch?

 

[rohanski]

I did not keep a record of it.

 

[floridabwoy]

can you give me the recepie for fat tire??? I live on the east coast and
I love fat tire but cannot get it here...

thx,
nate