Persistant infection

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

CDS

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
220
Reaction score
1,312
Location
Mississauga
I need help. I started homebrewing 4 years ago. Since then I've generally averaged 1 batch per month, so somewhere in the range of 50 batches. I've never had a problem with infection before. It happened to me for the first time recently, where I had to dump my batch of British golden ale. Now I just checked my second attempt 1 week into fermenting, and again, hydrometer reading is way too high. (1.006). Looks like it's happened twice in a row! I'm pretty frustrated, but also at a loss. My sanitation practices are sound. For this batch I took extra steps, like soaking my hoses in hot water and OxiClean, rinsing them well, and then submerging them in a bucket of starsan until needed. Same with all of my ferment gaskets and parts.
I'm not sure what to do next. I figure I'll post my equipment and process and see if anyone has some advice. If I strike out for a third time in a row, I'll want to burn my brew shop to the ground. lol

  • 15-gallon Spike Brewing Brew Kettle (1 ball valve Coupler) I always spray outside of valve liberally with starsan before connecting pump hose. after brewday I always use a bristle test tube cleaning brush to scrub the inside of the valve.
  • Blichmann Riptide Pump - as mentioned, I soak the hoses in OxiClean, rinse, and then submerge in a bucket of starsan. Before transferring wort, I run the pump for a couple minutes with starsan solution and turn it off to let the starsan sit so the interior parts of the pump are sanitized.
  • Spike Brewing CF10 14 Gallon Conical Fermenter - I disassemble and wash thoroughly in OxiClean and allow to air dry. On brewday I submerge all parts in a bucket of starsan, then spray the interior and underside of the lid with starsan. Then assemble the fermenter just before transferring the wort.
  • oxygenate the wort with Spike Brewing Oxygenation Kit, sanitized with starsan.
Any suggestions to help me avoid this happening again would be appreciated!
Cheers!
 
Dang! Sad to hear that...
If I had to guess, something is being missed in your cleaning/sanitation routine.

[...] my second attempt 1 week into fermenting, and again, hydrometer reading is way too high. (1.006)
Too low, you mean. ;)

How does the (infected) beer taste? Any off-flavors you could describe?
That could help spotting the kind of infection, and possibly pointing to the area that's responsible for it.

15-gallon Spike Brewing Brew Kettle (1 ball valve Coupler) I always spray outside of valve liberally with starsan before connecting pump hose. after brewday I always use a bristle test tube cleaning brush to scrub the inside of the valve.
Can you take that valve apart for a more thorough inside inspection and cleaning?
How do you store the kettle, with the valve(s) open, closed, or in between, at a 45° angle?

I would recommend to recirculate (boiling) hot wort through the whole system, valves, hoses, chiller, etc. for 10 minutes before flame out, to sanitize the whole path.

What is your chilling system?

oxygenate the wort with Spike Brewing Oxygenation Kit, sanitized with starsan.
Is that an in-line stone? How's that being cleaned and stored?
 
lol - too low, yes. :)

The sample doesn't actually have any noticeable off flavours, which is consistent with the last batch. The week old sample didn't taste off, but by the second week it was noticeable. Sour and "harsh" tasting.
I store the kettle with the valve closed.
My chilling system is an JaDeD Hydra Copper Immersion Chiller, which I drop in 10 minutes before flame out.
The oxygenation kit includes this carb stone - after use, I'll soak it in OxyClean, and on brew day I stand it upside down (on it's post) and fill it with starsan until I need it.
Screen Shot 2024-09-01 at 6.14.11 PM.png
 
Yes take the brew kettle valve apart. I break mine down about once a year(10-12 brews). It always has a little buildup. The HLT side too sometimes has a little buildup.

Maybe it's time for new tubing. Also, crap can build up around the barb, inside near the clamp.

I rercirc hot homemade PBW through the wort side pump, CFC, and HERMS coil and try to remember to open all ball valves fully and then later at 45 degrees. About 30 minutes all together. Then a hot rinse and starsan flush. I also do the pre-flameout recirc of wort.

Boil your oxygenation stone.

I'd recommend a little more than just oxiclean.
 
Last edited:
I need help. I started homebrewing 4 years ago. Since then I've generally averaged 1 batch per month, so somewhere in the range of 50 batches. I've never had a problem with infection before. It happened to me for the first time recently, where I had to dump my batch of British golden ale. Now I just checked my second attempt 1 week into fermenting, and again, hydrometer reading is way too high. (1.006). Looks like it's happened twice in a row! I'm pretty frustrated, but also at a loss. My sanitation practices are sound. For this batch I took extra steps, like soaking my hoses in hot water and OxiClean, rinsing them well, and then submerging them in a bucket of starsan until needed. Same with all of my ferment gaskets and parts.
I'm not sure what to do next. I figure I'll post my equipment and process and see if anyone has some advice. If I strike out for a third time in a row, I'll want to burn my brew shop to the ground. lol

  • 15-gallon Spike Brewing Brew Kettle (1 ball valve Coupler) I always spray outside of valve liberally with starsan before connecting pump hose. after brewday I always use a bristle test tube cleaning brush to scrub the inside of the valve.
  • Blichmann Riptide Pump - as mentioned, I soak the hoses in OxiClean, rinse, and then submerge in a bucket of starsan. Before transferring wort, I run the pump for a couple minutes with starsan solution and turn it off to let the starsan sit so the interior parts of the pump are sanitized.
  • Spike Brewing CF10 14 Gallon Conical Fermenter - I disassemble and wash thoroughly in OxiClean and allow to air dry. On brewday I submerge all parts in a bucket of starsan, then spray the interior and underside of the lid with starsan. Then assemble the fermenter just before transferring the wort.
  • oxygenate the wort with Spike Brewing Oxygenation Kit, sanitized with starsan.
Any suggestions to help me avoid this happening again would be appreciated!
Cheers!
Bleach solution for all parts. Take apart the valves and soak them, too.

Just for reference, hot water drives off the chlorine, so use cold water to soak.
 
Dang! Sad to hear that...
If I had to guess, something is being missed in your cleaning/sanitation routine.


Too low, you mean. ;)

How does the (infected) beer taste? Any off-flavors you could describe?
That could help spotting the kind of infection, and possibly pointing to the area that's responsible for it.


Can you take that valve apart for a more thorough inside inspection and cleaning?
How do you store the kettle, with the valve(s) open, closed, or in between, at a 45° angle?

I would recommend to recirculate (boiling) hot wort through the whole system, valves, hoses, chiller, etc. for 10 minutes before flame out, to sanitize the whole path.

What is your chilling system?


Is that an in-line stone? How's that being cleaned and stored?
"...with the valve(s) open, closed, or in between, at a 45° angle?"

Is there a best practice for this?
 
"...with the valve(s) open, closed, or in between, at a 45° angle?"

Is there a best practice for this?
Once cleaned,* leaving ball valves in a 45° position (half open/half closed) between uses seems to be the preferred practice. It allows the inside to dry completely.

Once you take a ball valve apart (the 3-part ones are the easiest) you'll see why.

* While running rinse water, cleaner, or sanitizer through the system/valves, repeatedly moving the handle (slowly) between the fully open and fully closed position helps to flush/clean the ball chamber, removing most if not all wort, and preventing build-up.

You could add a "reverse flow" rinse (from the front) at the very end. Again, move the valve handle slowly back and forth. This may help rinse the valve out even more completely. You can use water or sanitizer, even a spray bottle.
 
As others have said, circulate hot wort thru your pump and hoses during the last 10 mins or so at the end of the boil. Save yourself the trouble of the star-san circulation, the heat is all you need to sanitize. Also boil your aeration stone.
 
Do you have any sort of floating devices like a Tilt or Pill? You've covered everything I could ask about except maybe starter flask, paddles and floaters. Do you harvest yeast from previous batches?
 
The oxygenation kit includes this carb stone - after use, I'll soak it in OxyClean, and on brew day I stand it upside down (on it's post) and fill it with starsan until I need it.
But do you actually flush it out? Stones really should be flushed in both directions...those little crevices can hang on to a lot more than you'd expect.
 
Do you have any sort of floating devices like a Tilt or Pill? You've covered everything I could ask about except maybe starter flask, paddles and floaters. Do you harvest yeast from previous batches?
I was using a Rapt Pill - it was the latest change to my process, so I left it out this time to see. Still got the infection, but I don't think I'll return to using it anyway. I didn't find it to be all that useful, tbh. Not super accurate.
 
But do you actually flush it out? Stones really should be flushed in both directions...those little crevices can hang on to a lot more than you'd expect.
Good point. When I used my old-school aerator on the wand I used to boil the stone after every use. The design of this one with the gas post attached - I was reluctant to boil the whole thing. I wasn't sure what that would do to the gasket. I guess I could disassemble it after use though.
 
Are you aerating the wort with a bottle of oxygen or are you pumping air through the stone? You possibly could be pumping air that is filthy. O2 from a bottle will less likely be any suspect what so ever.

If you don't figure out the infection with this batch, then why don't you do your next batch with no aeration and use dry yeast. Then more certainly, you can eliminate the aeration system as a infection source.
 
It's all been said, but I'm starting fresh here..

Do not try using starsan on any hot side vessels. You already have the best sanitizer at your disposal, the boiling wort. Anything that the chilled wort is going to touch needs to have the boiling wort run through it for a minute after flameout. Run the hot wort through the valves in the half open position to ensure the space behind the seats get hot.

Boil your fermenter parts. Butterfly valves, stones, gaskets, etc.
 
UPDATE: Well I'm about to start brewing today. Here's the measures I've taken:
  • soaked and cleaned all fermenter parts thoroughly
  • replaced old silicon hoses with brand new
  • disassembled kettle ball valve and cleaned thoroughly (yup, lots of gunk in there)
  • disassembled Spike airstone and will boil for a couple of minutes before use
  • will circulate boiling wort through the pump for a few minutes before flameout, rather than relying on starsan as I used to do
Thanks again for all the great advice, everyone. Wish me luck!
 

Latest posts

Back
Top