IIPA w/ 12 oz of Centennial hops - what OG should I aim for?

[seaoforange]

Will 1.080 be good enough for a balanced taste?

Or should I go closer to 1.100?

 

[LovesIPA]

It depends on the hop schedule. Can you post the recipe?

 

[seaoforange]

I've got the exact recipe at home, and I'm at work.

But I can tell you that the hop schedule is largely 10 minutes left in the boil and beyond, including a dry hop addition.

Something like 4 oz. bittering, 4 oz flavoring, and 4 oz dry hop.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

Let us know the AA of the hops too when you can, I would personally only use around 2oz for bittering (depending on the AA) shooting for about 80% of my desired IBU and load up on the late additions and dry hop. I would personally shoot for an OG around 1.080-1.085 and I would mash low and add at least a pound of table sugur at 15 mins left in the boil to help dry it out and let those hops shine. Your grain bill and percentage of crystal malts will also play a pretty large role in what you need for bittering so having the whole recipe will help a bunch.

 

[bobbrews]

Like, LovesIPA said... it depends on the hop schedule, and the rest of the recipe of course. That amount of hops could even work for a 1.065-1.070 OG IPA.

 

[seaoforange]

Ok, hops schedule is planned as follows (I'm certainly open to suggestions for changes to this, however).

All hop additions are Centennial:

4 oz @ 60 mins
2 oz @ 10 mins
1 oz @ 5 mins
1 oz @ flameout
4 oz dry hop - secondary

 

[seaoforange]

Specialty grains + other non 2-row mashables include:

1 # white wheat
1/2 # aromatic
1/2 # carapils
1/2 # honey malt
1/2 # caramel 60

For base grain / DME ratio, was thinking of going with:

4 # Rahr 2-row
8 # Pilsen DME

 

[bobbrews]

That recipe will yield more like 1.108 OG in 5 gallons. For something more IIPA-ish, less complicated, and that makes more sense, get rid of the aromatic, carapils, and crystal 60. If using crystal 60, use 3% of it with 3% honey malt. Switch the Pilsen DME to Light DME, and use less of it. Use some corn sugar to aid drying.

If there is no possibility to alter the grist, then just 1.5 lbs. DME early boil and 3 lbs. DME late boil will get you to about 1.077 OG along with the rest of the grain. A small sugar addition will boost you up to 1.080.

Here are my recommended amendments:

For a full volume boil with no top off water and 5 gallons in the primary...

1.080 / 1.014
8.8% ABV
100+ IBUs
8 SRM

(43)% 5.0# Rahr 2-Row Pale (mash at 147 F)
(26%) 3.0# Briess Golden Light DME (flameout addition)
(13%) 1.5# Briess Golden Light DME (boil start)
(6%) .75# Briess White Wheat Malt (mash at 147 F)
(6%) .75# Gambrinus Honey Malt (mash at 147 F)
(6%) .75# Corn Sugar (flameout addition)

2 oz Centennial (10.5 AA%) @ 60 mins, vigorous boil start
1 oz @ 30 mins
1 oz @ 2 mins
3 oz @ slow-cooling, warm whirlpool / hopstand (165 F down to pitching temp.)
5 oz @ dry hop

Healthy, Adequate-Sized WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast Starter
82% Attenuation
64 F Fermentation Temp. (first 7-10 days) - Free rise to 66-68 F afterward

20 Days in Primary
8 Days in Secondary w/Dryhops at 68 F

 

[seaoforange]

Thanks for the advice bobbrews!

 

[seaoforange]

This beer did not turn out well.

 

[PseudoChef]

Care to elaborate why?

 

[brew_ny]

Care to elaborate why?

I would love to know more also

 

[IL1kebeer]

This beer did not turn out well.

12 oz of hops is a lot.

 

[RedShirt]

Bob's recipe looks pretty tasty. Was there an off flavor present?

 

[FRS]

Yeah, let's hear some details! What don't you like?

 

[PseudoChef]

12 oz of hops is a lot.

Not really.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Not really.

That comes out to 4.65 lbs per barrel, which is considered a lot even on the pro scale which has a 10-20% loss of hop utilization depending on the size of their system. Heck, 3 lbs per barrel is considered a hop bomb and that comes out to just over 8 oz for a 5 gallon batch. And keep in mind that they are pros, they know how to work with that much hops.

He wanted advice as to why his beer came out bad and I was kindly trying to say that maybe 12 oz could be a bit much.

4 oz at bittering and 8 oz to finish (4 at the end of boil and 4 at dryhop). Yeah that's a mess IMO.

 

[PseudoChef]

That comes out to 4.65 lbs per barrel, which is considered a lot even on the pro scale which has a 10-20% loss of hop utilization depending on the size of their system. Heck, 3 lbs per barrel is considered a hop bomb and that comes out to just over 8 oz for a 5 gallon batch. And keep in mind that they are pros, they know how to work with that much hops.

He wanted advice as to why his beer came out bad and I was kindly trying to say that maybe 12 oz could be a bit much.

4 oz at bittering and 8 oz to finish (4 at the end of boil and 4 at dryhop). Yeah that's a mess IMO.

First, we don't know what recipe he brewed.

Second, we're talking about an IIPA, not just a run-of-the-mill beer. Pliny, Enjoy By, Heady, etc are all in excess of 12 oz hops at the 5 gallon volume.

 

[seaoforange]

I was going to be brewing a black IPA and an IIPA back to back, so I wanted to get some extra value and use an entire pound of hops across both recipes.

Well, I've learned the hard way - that's just doing it wrong.


I used the hop schedule posted earlier in the thread:

All hop additions are Centennial:

4 oz @ 60 mins
2 oz @ 10 mins
1 oz @ 5 mins
1 oz @ flameout
4 oz dry hop - secondary


I don't have the malt bill in front of me. I do remember that I took some of user bobbrews suggestions and ignored others. Perhaps I should've followed them blindly.

Anyhow, the hops WAY overpower the malt. There is zero balance to this beer.

 

[brew_ny]

thanks for the reply

would like to know the grain bill also

S_M

 

[IL1kebeer]

First, we don't know what recipe he brewed. Second, we're talking about an IIPA, not just a run-of-the-mill beer. Pliny, Enjoy By, Heady, etc are all in excess of 12 oz hops at the 5 gallon volume.

Yes. But those beers are made by pros, and the best of pros to be exact. These beers are dry hopped carefully and at multiple stages. They drop the yeast, resuspend dryhop with co2, and even drop out some of the dry hop for a second or third doseNot to mention that their finishing/whirlpool techniques can't be matched at the homebrew level. And finally the quality of ingredients that they get are the absolute best and freshest. Who knows how long the hops that we buy have been sitting at on the homebrew store shelves.

He says that the hops in his beer are overpowering. I have to believe that it's the 12oz hop overkill that he used.

*edited*

 

[LovesIPA]

All hop additions are Centennial:

4 oz @ 60 mins

I think this is the problem. Four ounces of Centennial is a lot to bitter with.

Bob's recommendation was to back it down to 2 ounces for bittering and use more late kettle additions. This probably would have given you a more balanced beer.

 

[IL1kebeer]

I think this is the problem. Four ounces of Centennial is a lot to bitter with. Bob's recommendation was to back it down to 2 ounces for bittering and use more late kettle additions. This probably would have given you a more balanced beer.

With 12 oz of hops that would mean 10oz of finishing hops. 5 oz at the end of the boil and 5 oz dryhop is a mess. Id agree to cut back bittering, but I wouldn't move those hops to finishing.

 

[PseudoChef]

Yes. But those beers are made by pros, and the best of pros to be exact. These beers are dry hopped carefully and at multiple stages. They drop the yeast, resuspend dryhop with co2, and even drop out some of the dry hop for a second or third doseNot to mention that their finishing/whirlpool techniques can't be matched at the homebrew level. And finally the quality of ingredients that they get are the absolute best and freshest. Who knows how long the hops that we buy have been sitting at on the homebrew store shelves.

He says that the hops in his beer are overpowering. I have to believe that it's the 12oz hop overkill that he used.

*edited*

Lol. All that stuff can be done at the homebrew level. Take a look at scottland's blog here: bertusbrewery.com. He's consistently nailing the IIPA style using most of the techniques you just mentioned. Sure it's one example, but I stand by my assessment that 12 oz is not excessive and you don't need to be a professional to brew a high quality IIPA.

 

[IL1kebeer]

Lol. All that stuff can be done at the homebrew level. Take a look at scottland's blog here: bertusbrewery.com. He's consistently nailing the IIPA style using most of the techniques you just mentioned. Sure it's one example, but I stand by my assessment that 12 oz is not excessive and you don't need to be a professional to brew a high quality IIPA.

Didn't say those techniques couldn't be done, except for the whirlpool technique. Obviously he isn't brewing pro 12oz / 5 gal IPAs since he is here asking why his beer is a hoppy mess.

You can put your hoppy e-peen away. I'm unsubscribing to this thread because this is going nowhere.

Good luck OP.

 

[bigdongsr94]

IL1=*********. You may need to change the schedule but I just did the pliny clone at a pound to 5.5g and it's literally not bitter enough. The main thing to understand is how little and actual recipe plays into that last 10%. Process and water are so much. I will probably always consider myself a beginner until I can get that last 10%, that slight difference between my beers and the micros I buy. Sometimes mine are better but even at a pound I wasn't getting the hoppy punch I am looking for. You may be on the other end of that and get plenty of hop at 8oz with mostly dry hops.
Also the whirlpool of a pro is done fairly well with a hop stand. My system also allows me to control the stand temp and bring it down over time similar to a whirlpool.

 

[munro]

I just made a beer that, when all is said and done (including dry hops) will have 12 0z in a 6 gallon batch. The grain bill weighed in at 19.5 lbs. OG of 1.068. Ill let you guys know how it turns out. It's a combination of Zeus, chinook, cascade and centennial