I was scolded at LHBS today when I told em I don't usually use a secondary

[H-ost]

There was still krausen when you bottled. Was fermentation complete and the krausen was stuck or are you bottling to early?

 

[Golddiggie]

Wait, did you bottle directly from the primary fermenter??? That could be why right there. When i was bottling (and when my brew-buddy still bottles) I always racked to the bottling bucket, onto the priming solution. IMO mixing in the priming solution into primary is most likely where it went sideways.

 

[Martin30R]

I use buckets for primary and glass for secondary. I used to use glass for both, but I much prefer plastic for the primary. I like using the glass carboys mainly because it makes me feel like a mad wizard.

I rack most of my beers to secondary, but I'd say I 20% just go through a long haul in the primary. Everything turns out delicious. I've recently had a brewer from Sam Adams tell me to forget about secondary and to really ramp up the amount of yeast I pitch.

I'll probably continue to do it my way (though I do make yeast starters now).

 

[Hauntedyards]

In regards to oxidization... Even with wine I have always given my carboys and bottles at bottling time a good shot of CO2 so that the beer and wine siphons into them under that blanket of CO2 pushing the O2 and starsan bubbles out the top. Call me paranoid but I don't think secondary(ing) like this exposes it to much oxygen.

I like to secondary because it gives me something to do while I'm waiting and I feel like I'm part of the process... lol

 

[brewtime]

yup, i only secondary when i am gonna dryhop

I dryhop in the primary after the fermentation cease I toss in the hops. no need to do a transfer.

 

[Stauffbier]

i dryhop in the primary after the fermentation cease i toss in the hops. No need to do a transfer.

+1

 

[quick5pnt0]

I wasnt even talking to this guy originally, I was looking at the glasses. My buddy who is getting his feet wet brewing was asking him about getting a carboy as I walked up. He asked if he needed one for primary or secondary. (hes using my equipment right now, and buying stuff for himself here and there) I told him I use a bucket for primary, and rarely secondary, unless Im aging, dry hopping, or adding fruit. He asked how long I ferment, and I told him 3-6 weeks depending. He asked me "how is that working out?" I told him its been working great. He then proceeded to tell me how my beer is going to taste like cardboard, and hes sure something doesnt taste right with my brews.

To me he seemed like the know it all type, he kept saying how buckets never seal air tight, and was talking about his dad brewing twenty some years ago.

I guessing he overheard you telling your friend to go with a cheaper setup and saw his profits dwindling so he decided to make it look like you are uninformed. Personally when I come across local retailers like that I never go back. There are tons of places online and off where I can buy this stuff so why waste my time and money at a retailer who is more interested in boosting his profits rather than giving me proper advice WHEN ASKED FOR?

 

[pjj2ba]

I find it a bit curious that people are so concerned about siphoning up a little yeast when transferring - especially from folks who do longer primary only beers. Sucking up a little yeast is not going to result in a cloudy beer. The yeast that are being sucked up are ones that have already settled out, and will do so again fairly quickly in the new container (whatever it is).

I take care to minimize the amount of yeast that I might transfer over, but I find it is not worth any extra effort to make sure I don't transfer any of the settled yeast. Plus I'm a cheap bastard and want as much of my beer as I can get

 

[Stauffbier]

I take care to minimize the amount of yeast that I might transfer over, but I find it is not worth any extra effort to make sure I don't transfer any of the settled yeast. Plus I'm a cheap bastard and want as much of my beer as I can get

I purposely pick up a little yeast from the cake with my autosiphon when I rack to the bottle bucket as insurance that I have ample yeast for carbonating. I still get very clear beer, and the yeast that settles in the bottle (which isn't much) doesn't bother me at all...

 

[KitB]

And he told me I should only primary in a glass carboy, not a bucket. he continued to tell me how I couldnt be making good beer only doing a primary fermentation, and I should be pulling the beer off the yeast cake after two weeks. I typically leave my beer in primary for anywhere between 3 weeks to 6 weeks, depending on what it is. What do you guys think?

Your response should be:
"Whatever, Gramps...Pick up a brewing book that was written after the turn of the century".
Then, start going to a new brew store.

 

[smizak]

This myth won't die.

I had multiple competition 1st place medals and a best of show placing with a lager I bottled straight out of primary after 9 days.

 

[BuckettOfBeer]

Just wanted to say that this happened to me too. I went to a shop to get another carboy to ferment in when I was JUST starting out (getting ready for my 2nd or 3rd batch). The guy at the counter was shocked and appalled that I didn't secondary! He said that I would make WAY better beer one.

Still a noob but I've had success both ways.

 

[Stauffbier]

This myth won't die.

I had multiple competition 1st place medals and a best of show placing with a lager I bottled straight out of primary after 9 days.

I like this idea! How long did you lager the bottles, and at what temp?

 

[AZOTH99]

Strange my LHBS told me to use my bucket for my primary and for the secondary use a 5 gal glass carboy and not a 6 gal.

I said well i was "thinking of using two glass carboys" and not a bucket he said don't waste your time or money. the glass is a PITA to clean unless you really want to use it. stick with the bucket. " So I did, I still use my carboy for a secondary though.

Do what makes you happy and what every you like. there is 100 ways to skin a cat just because someone's way is different doesn't make it wrong if it works for you or them.

 

[smizak]

I like this idea! How long did you lager the bottles, and at what temp?

I didn't purposely "lager" them per say. After carbing up I just stored them in my fridge. When they dropped clear(chill haze) I started drinking and entering them, they were delicious a week after I put them in the cold. I do the same for all beer, ale or lager. Hate serving cloudy homebrew.

 

[kh54s10]

This myth won't die.

I had multiple competition 1st place medals and a best of show placing with a lager I bottled straight out of primary after 9 days.

What are your percentages of good to great beers? I am in the 3 week camp.
I have had beers that tasted like crap at 9 days and fantastic at 3 weeks.
I would rather wait than risk a crappy beer. I have made 20 batches and have not had a bad one among them.

Oh drat I just jinxed myself again!

I don't feel that it is a myth. And, I think you are in a minority on this topic.
Now the difference between 3 and 4 weeks???

Edit: Sorry for the off topic rant in response to a rant!
Edit 2: But whatever works for you.

 

[smizak]

What are your percentages of good to great beers? I am in the 3 week camp.
I have had beers that tasted like crap at 9 days and fantastic at 3 weeks.
I would rather wait than risk a crappy beer. I have made 20 batches and have not had a bad one among them.

Oh drat I just jinxed myself again!

I don't feel that it is a myth. And, I think you are in a minority on this topic.
Now the difference between 3 and 4 weeks???

Edit: Sorry for the off topic rant in response to a rant!
Edit 2: But whatever works for you.

I have over two dozen medals and I finished third in the New York State Homebrewer of the Year (NYSHOTY) competition last year, an invitational that only homebrewers with over five medal wins in that season could enter. Just scored another over the weekend for a Scottish 80 at the Amber Waves of Grain, a competition with 635 entries that I also judged in.

I short primary (< 1 week) almost all of my beers. My Saisons definitely take a bit longer.

I'm not trying to brag or get into a pissing contest. Brew the way you want. I'm trying to make a point and my credentials speak to it. I'm sure beers can be great with 3 week primaries and whatever secondaries people use. But the incessant insistence on this forum that you MUST do a 3 week primary by some members or that you must do a secondary from a guy whose primary interest is to sell you more equipment drives me nuts. It's one of the reasons I stopped posting for a couple of months here. Every time I went to give somebody some advice I'd get flamed for it.

See things haven't changed.

I might be in the minority, but I also know that there are some seriously kick-ass, as in NATIONAL competition winning brewers that post here that will agree with me.

 

[uncleben113]

I 2ndary all of my beers. I haven't been brewing long enough to tell you a difference but it helps clear up my beers and I appreciate clear beers. A little less yeast in my bottles=a little more aesthetically pleasing to me. That's all.

Do what works for you and what you like

 

[smizak]

Do what works for you and what you like

Exactly. Cheers!

 

[Xtant]

I don't primary for very long, either. Typically a week or so, then off to a secondary. I definitely agree with you, but my experience isn't very extensive.

I do make a starter for every batch, though.

It is wa works for me and how I like to brew....

 

[janivar123]

Getting flamed for recomending a short ferment to a begginer might be because they dont want the confusion.
It also helps with some ekstra time if you have less then good pitching rates or temperature control

 

[pm5k00]

Giving your primary a good 24-48 hour cold crash will get your beer very clear without a secondary. That being said I am in the camp of only doing a secondary for fruit, bulk ageing, and dry hopping, and honestly I usually dry hop in the serving keg rather than 2ndary. I don't use glass, buckets and better bottles only.

 

[pm5k00]

Getting flamed for recomending a short ferment to a begginer might be because they dont want the confusion.
It also helps with some ekstra time if you have less then good pitching rates or temperature control

Better to educate than to ignore. How about telling the newbs that if they pitch a good amount of healthy yeast and use temperature controll their beer will be ready sooner.

 

[amandabab]

I don't primary for very long, either. Typically a week or so, then off to a secondary. .

This has worked very well for me. week or so depending on how its going and change it over.

 

[Yooper]

Better to educate than to ignore. How about telling the newbs that if they pitch a good amount of healthy yeast and use temperature controll their beer will be ready sooner.

Yes, that's been my argument all along. I am a big believer that saying "a month in the primary" as good advice is misguided because I've never left a beer in the fermenter for that long and I think I make good beer.

A well made beer is done with active fermentation in as little as 2 days, but certainly by 5 in most cases. Leaving it at FG in the fermenter for a couple of days is very good as the yeast will go back and digest their own waste products once fermentable sugars are gone. This process takes just a day or two. Then the beer begins to clear. Keeping a beer in the fermenter once the beer is clear isn't doing the beer any more good. It may not harm it, but it isn't beneficial either.

I almost always package my beers by day 14, or earlier, depending on what I'm making. Usually my dryhopped beers are a bit longer, packaged about day 19.

But I don't tell people that they HAVE to package a dryhopped beer on day 19, because that would be silly. I also think it's also silly to tell people to keep their beer sitting in a fermenter for a month, when proper yeast health and fermentation temperature are more critical. Preventing off flavors in the first places means that you don't have to give it time to "clean up".

The great thing about homebrewing is that there are few rules. I think that sanitation, fresh ingredients, and ensuring yeast health are really the only "rules".

 

[Stauffbier]

Yes, that's been my argument all along. I am a big believer that saying "a month in the primary" as good advice is misguided because I've never left a beer in the fermenter for that long and I think I make good beer.

A well made beer is done with active fermentation in as little as 2 days, but certainly by 5 in most cases. Leaving it at FG in the fermenter for a couple of days is very good as the yeast will go back and digest their own waste products once fermentable sugars are gone. This process takes just a day or two. Then the beer begins to clear. Keeping a beer in the fermenter once the beer is clear isn't doing the beer any more good. It may not harm it, but it isn't beneficial either.

I almost always package my beers by day 14, or earlier, depending on what I'm making. Usually my dryhopped beers are a bit longer, packaged about day 19.

But I don't tell people that they HAVE to package a dryhopped beer on day 19, because that would be silly. I also think it's also silly to tell people to keep their beer sitting in a fermenter for a month, when proper yeast health and fermentation temperature are more critical. Preventing off flavors in the first places means that you don't have to give it time to "clean up".

The great thing about homebrewing is that there are few rules. I think that sanitation, fresh ingredients, and ensuring yeast health are really the only "rules".

I'm learning this more and more, as I have been packaging my brew earlier than I used to. I can't tell any real difference. I made an IPA and a smash that I packaged after about 2 weeks, and they are a couple of my better batches. I do tend to go 3 weeks or so just because sometimes I don't have time to get to it. I've gotten away from the 4 week fermentations a lot more though lately..

 

[mewellsar]

Funny. I went to my LHBS to buy a couple of big glass carboys. The guy said he'd sell them to me, but I was wasting my money when this $15 bucket works just as well as is a heck of a lot easier to clean.

 

[Sherpa FE]

Funny. I went to my LHBS to buy a couple of big glass carboys. The guy said he'd sell them to me, but I was wasting my money when this $15 bucket works just as well as is a heck of a lot easier to clean.

Well, technically they are easier to clean, nice big opening to reach in and clean. Carboys, not so much.

What he didn't mention is its a lot easier to damage the plastic and harbor bacteria, causing infections. Glass won't.
I know we all know that, I just felt compelled to say it again.

 

[Homercidal]

Well, technically they are easier to clean, nice big opening to reach in and clean. Carboys, not so much.

What he didn't mention is its a lot easier to damage the plastic and harbor bacteria, causing infections. Glass won't.
I know we all know that, I just felt compelled to say it again.

I personally find it just as easy to not scratch the plastic bucket by not cleaning with anything other than a wash cloth after a good hot soak, and not putting my brewing equipment in my fermenters when I'm not using them.

I think it's a matter of education. Lots of people who don't know better probably risk scratching their buckets by placing their spoons, mash paddles, racking canes, etc in them. Like I did before finding out about the scratching hazard on here.

You can also spend the money on plastic bags that line the bucket that make cleaning as easy as pulling the bag out of the bucket after fermentation and tossing in the trash can...

 

[BrewKnurd]

You can also spend the money on plastic bags that line the bucket that make cleaning as easy as pulling the bag out of the bucket after fermentation and tossing in the trash can...

I wish i had thought of this when I was fermenting in buckets.