I used Malt instead of Corn Sugar??

[snowydog]

Hi Everyone, Forgot my old username / password so had to make a new start here. I 'm pretty casual brewer, make about 4 batches a year. Only Coopers available in my town at grocery store. Made a few Spagnols Brewmaster kits too. The Coopers can be OK, Much better than paying $25 for Factory Donkey P---. If I buy beer I buy the good stuff.
So Coopers Real Ale is my mainstay.
Last 2 batches were not so great, a bit sour. So this time I thought I'd try using Malt instead of corn sugar. I guess I should have looked it up first but anyhow it's a done deal.
All seemed to go OK, Starting SG was a little low at About 1.030. ( temp 70F)
Foamed up nice after 1 day and in 5 days SG was down to 1.010
So I Racked it to a carboy and left it for 9 more days.
Yesterday I put in 7/8 cup of corn sugar racked to the primary. SG was still a little high at 1.007, but that was after adding the sugar ( sorry I forgot to check first) so I bottled anyway.
Tastes real good, So good I drank 2 glasses to test!! Didn't feel a buzz??
So I am about to make a second batch but was this OK to use only Malt and no corn sugar?? I think I've made a "lite" beer? which is OK but do you use more than the required 1000Grams when using Malt?
Thanks/ John

 

[drathbone]

I'm a little confused, are you using an extract kit that come with cans of syrup or bags of powder (malt extract)? Malt extract has sugar in it and you can add corn sugar to boost ABV but it won't add much flavor or complexity like the malt syrup/powder will. Most extract kits come with enough malt extract to provide plenty of sugar for fermentation without adding additional sugar. So to answer your question (i think) it's perfectly fine to follow the recipe in the kit without adding additional sugar.

 

[snowydog]

Coopers Kits are a can only, They provide the yeast but you must add the sugar. They even recommend to use plain table sugar ( yuck). The packages I used are 500G yellow bags of Malt Extract from Spagnols. I've used 1 as a sugar replacement but never 2. Just wondering if they are equal to corn sugar in strength.

 

[Calder]

Replacing Corn sugar with Malt extract is not only OK, but will generally give a better beer. Replace 1 lb of Corn sugar with 1 lb of Liquid Malt Extract, or 0.8 lbs of Dried Malt Extract.

Corn sugar ferments completely, while extract only ferments about 75%, so replacing 1 lb in 5 gallons will increase the FG by about .002.

1.007 seems OK for bottling. The sugar will increase the gravity by about .002, so you were about 1.005.

1.030 seems low for an OG. Maybe it was a lite kit. What was the gravity target of the kit? Sometimes extract doesn't mix very well and gravity checks can give low readings.

 

[Calder]

Coopers Kits are a can only, They provide the yeast but you must add the sugar. They even recommend to use plain table sugar ( yuck).

I often use table sugar. Never have a problem. I don't use corn sugar because it is so much more expensive, and I don't see the benefit. I also bottle using table sugar. I rarely use more than 10% of the fermentables as plain sugar; in 5 gallons of 1.060 beer, 10% would be about 11 ozs of table sugar.

 

[drathbone]

Ahh ok. I've never used a coopers kit, that's why I was confused. Learn something new everyday.

 

[Beezy]

I am kinda curious about corn vs table sugar. I have never put either in my beer except for bottling but it seems everywhere except homebrew forums people seem to prefer cane sugar. What am I missing? I used a bag called "priming" sugar because I am a n00b and don't know any better. Maybe table sugar next go...

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I am kinda curious about corn vs table sugar. I have never put either in my beer except for bottling but it seems everywhere except homebrew forums people seem to prefer cane sugar. What am I missing? I used a bag called "priming" sugar because I am a n00b and don't know any better. Maybe table sugar next go...

Priming sugar is corn sugar. It's also called dextrose. IIRC, corn sugar is preferred since it dissolves much quicker than table sugar. Also, maybe it has something to do with fructose content.

 

[Beezy]

Priming sugar is corn sugar. It's also called dextrose. IIRC, corn sugar is preferred since it dissolves much quicker than table sugar. Also, maybe it has something to do with fructose content.

Yeah I knew it was corn sugar I was just illustrating the fact that I was just going with recommended stuff as a beginner. I always boil my bottling sugar anyway. Its going to dissolve fine. Any other cons for table sugar?

 

[snowydog]

Thanks for the reply's everyone, thanks Calder that's what was my original idea but I was not sure if my info was correct, like I said , I used to frequent this forum a lot when I started a few years ago but drifted away. Reading the forum only made me want to invest in more equipment Someday.
OK I'll repeat my second batch the same way as I'm sure it was an improvement over the straight corn sugar batches. If the SG is low this time I'll add a little corn sugar to bring it up. The Coppers instructions are next to useless. That's how I found this forum.
And to those who are using regular table sugar- Try the malt. I think it's a secrete weapon for better home brew. Sure it will cost you about $8 more but store bought beer is still way more and besides, homegrown anything (eat or drink (smoke??) is much more satisfying!

 

[douglasbarbin]

Priming sugar is corn sugar. It's also called dextrose. IIRC, corn sugar is preferred since it dissolves much quicker than table sugar. Also, maybe it has something to do with fructose content.

Dextrose is 100% Glucose, while table sugar is about 50% glucose and 50% fructose. As far as I know, both glucose and fructose ferment completely.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Dextrose is 100% Glucose, while table sugar is about 50% glucose and 50% fructose. As far as I know, both glucose and fructose ferment completely.

Thaaaaat's it!

 

[C-Rider]

Hi Everyone, Forgot my old username / password so had to make a new start here. I 'm pretty casual brewer, make about 4 batches a year. Only Coopers available in my town at grocery store. Made a few Spagnols Brewmaster kits too. The Coopers can be OK, Much better than paying $25 for Factory Donkey P---. If I buy beer I buy the good stuff.
So Coopers Real Ale is my mainstay.
Last 2 batches were not so great, a bit sour. So this time I thought I'd try using Malt instead of corn sugar. I guess I should have looked it up first but anyhow it's a done deal.
All seemed to go OK, Starting SG was a little low at About 1.030. ( temp 70F)
Foamed up nice after 1 day and in 5 days SG was down to 1.010
So I Racked it to a carboy and left it for 9 more days.
Yesterday I put in 7/8 cup of corn sugar racked to the primary. SG was still a little high at 1.007, but that was after adding the sugar ( sorry I forgot to check first) so I bottled anyway.
Tastes real good, So good I drank 2 glasses to test!! Didn't feel a buzz??
So I am about to make a second batch but was this OK to use only Malt and no corn sugar?? I think I've made a "lite" beer? which is OK but do you use more than the required 1000Grams when using Malt?
Thanks/ John

Maybe your low OG was because you didn't get a good mix of wort and topping off water?
Over here in Hawai`i our LHBS reccomends adding 3.3 lbs of LME to a can off Cooper's kit. That's always made a pretty good brew for me.

 

[mgortel]

Since you can only get Coopers locally....why not try a kit from the internet....perhaps Northern Brewer.....

 

[jsweet]

Yes, corn sugar is more easily fermentable than table sugar and will tend to give the "purest" flavor, i.e. it won't change the flavor of your beer at all. In small amounts it probably doesn't hardly matter in practice, but I haven't tried table sugar so I wouldn't know.

Ironically, the reason most people (including myself) prefer cane sugar in most contexts is exactly what makes it so lousy for bottling: It has a whole bunch of other types of sugars and various trace compounds, which impart a very nice flavor -- but which are also not particularly fermentable and/or will ferment less cleanly.

 

[MalFet]

Yes, corn sugar is more easily fermentable than table sugar and will tend to give the "purest" flavor, i.e. it won't change the flavor of your beer at all. In small amounts it probably doesn't hardly matter in practice, but I haven't tried table sugar so I wouldn't know.

Ironically, the reason most people (including myself) prefer cane sugar in most contexts is exactly what makes it so lousy for bottling: It has a whole bunch of other types of sugars and various trace compounds, which impart a very nice flavor -- but which are also not particularly fermentable and/or will ferment less cleanly.

I don't know where you are getting your cane sugar, but mine is just plain ol' sucrose.

Some people report that cane sugar carbs slightly slower, as it is slightly more complicated to metabolize than the monosaccharide dextrose, but both glucose and fructose ferment fully.

 

[Beezy]

My priming sugar worked fast for sure. It was fully carbed in a week which is great. Maybe leaving well enough alone is good. It's not breaking my pocket book doing 5 gal a month.

 

[snowydog]

Well somehow we have ended up comparing cane sugar and corn sugar which is obviously worth disusing too, but. What I was wondering = Is Malt Extract a 100% sugar replacement. Other than my low starting SG using 100% Malt seems to have made an improvement in my smoothness.

C Rider what is this "LME" you mentioned ? -Malaho I'm interested.

mgortel- I can pick up kits when I go to the big city, Last couple I paid $50 for just didn't turn out any better than the coopers. Only difference I could see was they measure and add the sugar for you. Internet orders will add $25 to the price here in Canada.

 

[MalFet]

Well somehow we have ended up comparing cane sugar and corn sugar which is obviously worth disusing too, but. What I was wondering = Is Malt Extract a 100% sugar replacement. Other than my low starting SG using 100% Malt seems to have made an improvement in my smoothness.

Oops, sorry for the derail. The impact on your starting gravity between sugar and DME should be roughly the same, though the DME isn't as fermentable. The coopers kits use the sugar as a cheap way of boosting the gravity, and replacing the sugar with dme will really only improve your beer. It's hard to say exactly how much dme you should use, because it depends on what you are looking for. Swapping the sugar for DME 1:1 will give you a slightly fuller bodied, slightly lower alcohol beer than the sugar would.

 

[snowydog]

Swapping the sugar for DME 1:1 will give you a slightly fuller bodied, slightly lower alcohol beer than the sugar would.

Excellent, I believe that is what happened, so I guess it's a balancing act of smooth VS Horsepower. I will embark on an experiment therefore- Next batch a little more corn sugar.

 

[MalFet]

Swapping the sugar for DME 1:1 will give you a slightly fuller bodied, slightly lower alcohol beer than the sugar would.

Excellent, I believe that is what happened, so I guess it's a balancing act of smooth VS Horsepower. I will embark on an experiment therefore- Next batch a little more corn sugar.

But, critically, it won't change your OG. If your OG was lower than you expected it to be, this won't explain it.

 

[snowydog]

So you are saying if I start out with the 1000 G of Dry Malt and my SG is only 1.030 that adding an additional 250 G of Corn Sugar will not increase the OG a little more??

 

[MalFet]

So you are saying if I start out with the 1000 G of Dry Malt and my SG is only 1.030 that adding an additional 250 G of Corn Sugar will not increase the OG a little more??

Huh? Adding sugar will definitely raise your OG...

I just mean that:

Option A) a can of coopers malt and a kilo of sugar

and

Option B) a can of coopers malt and a kilo of dme

will have roughly equal OGs.

If you take one of them and add an additional 250g sugar, your OG will go up.

 

[snowydog]

Just a follow up.
So I have made 3 batches now using the Coopers Kits, 1 batch was a darker ale but other than colour they taste about the same. I have successfully got this down to adding 1000 grams of Dry Malt Extract and 300 Grams of Corn Sugar. This has resulted in about a 1.035 starting SG. I prime with 1 cup corn sugar. Beers are smooth and taste as good as can be expected. Big improvement over last summers batches which I found too bitter. They are going down a little to smoothly right now with the hot weather finally here. cheers.