I should find another hobby

[rjanson]

0 for 3 on the brewing so far with extract kits.

First batch was an IPA that while it tasted alright was more like a Bass Ale than an IPA.

Second Batch was a Russian River Blind Pig kit that tastes like an oak barrel (too much chips for too long?) Giving it more bottle time in hopes that the oak dissipates as some have said it would.

Third batch was an Amber Ale kit that is flat and skunky. Will probably be dumping it straight down the drain.

Of course I've spent just under a grand in prep for going to BIAB, and I've got an all grain version of the Blind Pig lined up for brewing once I get my burner situation resolved. If that goes poorly, keep an eye out for my stuff in the For Sale section!!!

 

[Stillraining]

Nah!....You will get it soon enough...If it was easy everyone would do it...Hang in there.

Any idiot can make beer ...making it well takes a little practice just like doing anything else well does.

 

[SpentBrains]

mentor?

 

[CU_tony]

I dont have much experience with extract kits, but if you almost have all the equipment for BIAB, def give it a shot!

Without a step by step run down of your brew days its hard to offer truly helpful advice, but clean and sanitize everything!!
For BIAB I have been brewing, racking to primary and letting it ride for 3 weeks on the cake then bottling. I have yet to bother with a secondary because it seems like a somewhat unnecessary step to me at this point and for the brews Im brewing.

The last beer, have you bottled it yet? How did you calculate priming sugar, and how long has it been conditioning?

 

[woo_pig]

I was never happy with the extract kits that was more for the specialty beers. It just always left me wishing it was a stronger kick in the ass. Try a small partial mash first .

 

[Double_D]

Yeah, way too early to give up.

 

[Moose_MI]

You should find a little patience..like guns and Roses said

 

[rjanson]

I dont have much experience with extract kits, but if you almost have all the equipment for BIAB, def give it a shot!

Without a step by step run down of your brew days its hard to offer truly helpful advice, but clean and sanitize everything!!
For BIAB I have been brewing, racking to primary and letting it ride for 3 weeks on the cake then bottling. I have yet to bother with a secondary because it seems like a somewhat unnecessary step to me at this point and for the brews Im brewing.

The last beer, have you bottled it yet? How did you calculate priming sugar, and how long has it been conditioning?

Two good points, and I think racking to secondary on the Amber Ale is where things went south on that one.

I used priming sugar according to the directions in the kit. Bottle conditioned two weeks, then refrigerated. I've tried a few since then, hoping it needed a bit more time, but it's just bad.

I'm going to make a point to slow down a bit on this next batch and take my time. I've been good about cleaning and sanitizing everything, but maybe in too much of a rush. Not cutting corners per se, just maybe moving a little too quickly.

I'm looking forward to the BIAB with the new equipment. Hopefully I can get my burner resolved by Sunday and get that going. Would love to get a batch I'm proud of and happy to share with friends, and justify my new found obsession.

 

[jtratcliff]

Try something simple and well tested like centennial blonde, or cream of three crops, or yooper's haus ale.

These recipes work for hundreds of HBTers... so if they don't work for you. It's time to examine your process .

IPAs and Russian River clones are probably too ambitious for your 1st brews...

Baby steps, dude.

And a grand on BIAB? You're doing it wrong😃

$30 10 gal tamale steamer and $5 paint strainer bags for the 1st go round... see if you even like it before shelling out the big bucks for a $30 wilserbrewer bag.

All grain BIAB is pretty straightforward but get your process down with extract first. Moving to all grain just adds more variables.

 

[Double_D]

@jtratcliff good point on equipment. A grand should have someone well on their way to a small 3 vessel set up.

 

[freisste]

...Any idiot can make beer ...making it well takes a little practice just like doing anything else well does.

Whenever I tell people I make beer, they ask if it's hard. I always say it's like chess. Anybody can learn the moves, but it takes a lot of practice and experience to be good.

Right now, you know how to move the pieces and how things work, but you're not a master...yet.

 

[DurtyChemist]

0 for 3 on the brewing so far with extract kits.

First batch was an IPA that while it tasted alright was more like a Bass Ale than an IPA.

Second Batch was a Russian River Blind Pig kit that tastes like an oak barrel (too much chips for too long?) Giving it more bottle time in hopes that the oak dissipates as some have said it would.

Third batch was an Amber Ale kit that is flat and skunky. Will probably be dumping it straight down the drain.

Of course I've spent just under a grand in prep for going to BIAB, and I've got an all grain version of the Blind Pig lined up for brewing once I get my burner situation resolved. If that goes poorly, keep an eye out for my stuff in the For Sale section!!!

17 posts, 3 recipes, $1,000 for BIAB and you're ready to quit? Dude you could have bought $5,000 of gear and had beers come out the same. If you're going to quit every hobby you start that isn't easy you might want to just stop having hobbies. Your second option is to quit quitting and admit you don't know anything about brewing and are ready to grow. Find a brew club. Make MORE beer. Go for batch to batch consistency and see how your brewing is impacting the beer as well as fermentation control.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Oh and I'd like to know exactly where you spent $1,000 on BIAB. Itemized with prices.

 

[Jorb]

Electric kettle, Chugger pump, PID control panel, and accessories (hoses, camlocks, Wilserbag, pulley, etc.). $1k goes quick.

 

[oujens]

This brings back memories! You soon learn those extract kits and basic instructions will get you beer, but then you get hooked on creating the process to make good beer. Based on your comment about investing in BIAB, it seems you got the right attitude. Welcome aboard! The important thing is to approach this as you will not make the best beer ever, but soon you will learn and make damn good beer with patience and research.

And I agree that you should make some proven recipes on this board to dial in your process. Once you approve, it will all be good.

 

[dkennedy]

Hang in there- a few mediocre-to-poor batches is initiation, not a condemnation of your abilities. Slow down, analyze every step of your process, and find your rhythm. I had a 25% success rate for my first four batches in 2012, have only had one truly awful batch since then (across probably 25 batches). Getting a rig and process that works for me was easily the biggest advance- things no longer feel foreign and the layout makes sense to me, so I can focus on executing the best that I'm able.

 

[PADave]

I'll echo what others have said. Get your process down, take your time, and start simple. I also do BIAB, have only been brewing for 6 months now, and have been making some damn good beers. The biggest thing for new brewers is to take their time. Don't rush anything. Also, keep it simple. Learn to crawl before you try to run. I've found that the instructions that come with kits pretty much suck. Read all you can, learn the process, learn your system, and you wont need instructions, just some times and temps.

 

[m00man2839]

I feel your pain and in the same boat. I brewed 3 extract kits myself and all of them were meh, with this last batch being straight up undrinkable. Went to my first local brewing club yesterday and realized that the townships drinking water is not good for brewing. I would hang in there, start posting steps you took here and let people poke holes. Im still determined, don't give up!!!!!

 

[brewpool]

I think you will want to identify the source of your brewing errors and the way to do that is take good notes, temp control of some sort, and follow good sanitizing practices. If you don't know what caused three bad beers, you're likely to make the same mistakes BIAB or all grain.

Anything you can pinpoint or thoughts as to why they turned out the way they did? What kind of water did you use?

 

[mongoose33]

My 10th batch (first three extract, next seven All-Grain) is in the fermentor. So I'm still pretty new at this, though I will note the last three batches I'd have paid money for in a bar.

But not the first six. The extract batches were....drinkable but not delectable. They allowed me to learn the process of boiling, adding hops, chilling, racking to primary, and so on.

After the first batch where I had bottled conditioned and carbed, I decided I wanted to bottle already carbed beer and not have any sludge on the bottom of the bottle (sudden thought: did you decant the beer leaving behind the yeast layer at the bottom, or did the yeast come out in your glass?).

So I got a smaller kegging system, and the bottling is better.

Here are the things that I believe have made the most difference in my beer going from "meh" to "I'd pay money for it in a bar:"

1. Water. It's been said that if your water tastes good you can brew good beer with it. Not necessarily so. When I switched to RO (reverse osmosis) water, the beer got better. There's a bit of a learning curve with water, but if you know someone local who can help you dial it in, it's easier. My local water is good for something like a porter or stout, but lighter beers not so much.

2. Mashing. I didn't stir the mash the first time, had low efficiency. Also struggled a bit to dial in the temps, and didn't do well with the amount of water needed. Now, between having the water right and having more control over the mashing temps, I'm getting good efficiency and good outcomes.

3. I don't particularly have this problem, but many do: fermentation temps. My basement holds at 64 degrees, and with the yeast increasing temps metabolically I get up to maybe 68 or 69 degrees. Those are pretty good fermentation temps for what I brew, but if you're not controlling fermentation temp, it's likely not good.

4. Got rid of the secondary. Unless you're aging beer for months, it's really unnecessary to rack to a secondary. Doing so opens you up to contamination, it's an extra step, and leaving the beer on the yeast allows it to clean up a bit more.

If you know someone locally who brews good beer you might ask them for help, perhaps to run you through it using your equipment, or maybe you can watch them brew.

And clean, sanitize, clean sanitize, clean, sanitize--and then repeat.

 

[Sadu]

I'm in a similar situation as Mongoose. New to the hobby, first 2 batches were hopped extract kits then went all grain. Batch 1 was drinkable, not great but ok. Batch 2 was better, comparable with a cheap mass-produced commercial beer. Everything after that keeps getting better.

What those 2 extract batches taught me was fermentation control, sanitation, how to use a hydrometer, how to take brewing logs, basic stuff. Also you get to see the fermentation cycle so you know what to expect at each point. The fermentation temperatures were all over the place for me for those first 2 batches, a lot of important lessons learned there.

My opinion is that you should not do all-grain until you can make a drinkable pre-hopped kit beer (by kit I mean the ones that you just add to the fermenter, not anything that requires boiling in a pot). The fermentation process (for me) was difficult to get right and if I wrecked my first all grain batch on bad fermentation practice or sanitation I would want to quit too. With a pre-hopped kit there are way less steps to get wrong and you haven't invested hours of blood and sweat making the wort. Set your expectations accordingly too - I was aiming for anything drinkable on my first batch, now I'm aiming for something comparable with a cheap/basic craft beer.

So going down this road there are really only a few things that can go wrong.

1. bad water - if your water is drinkable you should be ok for these kits, otherwise buy RO water if you think this is the issue
2. bad fermentables - don't use table sugar - DME is best otherwise a brew enhancer pack.
3. bad yeast - I found the kit yeast ok (just ok), but feel free to upgrade to us-05 if you have it. Don't bother rehydrating, that is an extra step that could introduce problems. Expiry shouldn't be an issue if you buy from a good store.
4. bad fermentation control - kit ales generally come out good at 18c / 65f. The kit instructions will probably say higher which I would say is wrong but there is some merit in following the kit instructions as a beginner. So if you do follow the kit directions then stick at the lower end of the temp range.
5. playing with it - the kit beer shouldn't require any interaction from you - don't keep opening the top, forget about racking to secondary. The less involvement you have the better.
6. lack of patience - give it 2-3 weeks in the fermenter then take the gravity readings and bottle it.
7. aeration - use carbonation drops the first time so you don't have to rack the beer into a bottling bucket, or calculate priming sugar
8. improper sanitation - this shouldn't be too hard on a kit batch. Sanitise properly when you put the beer into the fermenter, and again when you bottle. I use starsan in a spray bottle and this part is very easy.

Good luck.

 

[rjanson]

Thanks for the suggestions and support.

I didn't mean to imply that it would/should be easy or that I was gonna take my ball and go home. Just frustrated at less than stellar results so far.

I got my burner situation fixed, and I've got nothing to do today but brew, so I'm heading out to try again.

I'll report back with details for comments and critique.

Wish me luck!

 

[Jorb]

Good luck!

 

[woo_pig]

Good luck .Take your time. It's not a race. It's a art. Hope you picked somethinge easy and good.

 

[foley178]

Two good points, and I think racking to secondary on the Amber Ale is where things went south on that one.

I used priming sugar according to the directions in the kit. Bottle conditioned two weeks, then refrigerated. I've tried a few since then, hoping it needed a bit more time, but it's just bad.

I'm going to make a point to slow down a bit on this next batch and take my time. I've been good about cleaning and sanitizing everything, but maybe in too much of a rush. Not cutting corners per se, just maybe moving a little too quickly.

I'm looking forward to the BIAB with the new equipment. Hopefully I can get my burner resolved by Sunday and get that going. Would love to get a batch I'm proud of and happy to share with friends, and justify my new found obsession.

What temp did you ferment at? Some ambers take a little over the two weeks for carbonation

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I need another hobby too. Not that I'm giving up on this one, I'm just always open to new stuff.



Not sure if it was said, but how about small batches of brews you've never done before and big batches of ones you got right enough to try it again.

 

[rjanson]

What temp did you ferment at? Some ambers take a little over the two weeks for carbonation

70-72 degrees for fermentation, same temps for bottle conditioning. I haven;t dumped the lot yet, so I'll keep opening one at a time to check and se if there's been any improvement.

 

[ong]

In my opinion, the most error tolerant beer is a nice brown ale. Hoppy stuff can be more challenging. I would do a couple really simple extract kits before moving to all grain, but maybe try them as full volume boil, with most of the extract added right at flameout. You can make a really nice beer with extract. And it reduces the variables a lot. I was making decent extract brews, but my first few BIAB batches were way under gravity and... not good.

 

[PADave]

70-72 degrees for fermentation, same temps for bottle conditioning. I haven;t dumped the lot yet, so I'll keep opening one at a time to check and se if there's been any improvement.

That didn't help, little too warm. Especially if that was the air temp. then fermentation temps would have been mid to high 70's.

 

[Sourz4life]

As others have said, it just takes practice and learning from your mistakes. I messed up 2 batches at first, it happens. I started off with the "dogfish" mentality to go big and extreme and be different as that my type of personality. Don't get me wrong, that exposed me to so much and I've learned alot but diving into all those methods, styles and types of brews was alot to take in. Everyone has their own learning style but the common thing is it takes time and trials. Good luck on all you're brewing endeavors!

 

[MaryB]

I just bottled my third batch of Phat Tyre extract from NB. This batch I took the time to steep the grains at 154ish, I used distilled water(probably the biggest improvement!), and I had better temp control of it fermenting. The hydrometer sample made the first 2 taste like the cheapest beer in a plain generic can... I also improved my bottling setup with a spring loaded tipped wand instead of the cheap $5 wand. I did not secondary, in fact I fermented in my bottling bucket and ignored it for 4 weeks. OG was 1.06, FG 1.012 and it was pretty clear going into the bottle. I never even peeked inside. I had good airlock activity in 24 hours that lasted 2 days or so so I know it fermented well.

 

[rjanson]

That didn't help, little too warm. Especially if that was the air temp. then fermentation temps would have been mid to high 70's.

That's the temp (at least according to the sitck on thermometer strip) of the fermenter.

 

[bruhaha]

Rjanson, seriously don't quit. Two things helped me get passed the slump you are in my friend. BIAB, now you are making beer with the real deal (AG) and getting passed that boxed cake mix called extract. No offense to anyone intended. Secondly, bottling sucks, I mean really sucks. Kegging rocks and it is so simple. Soda kegs rule.

*BIAB

*Get an old freezer w/temp controller

*Couple of soda kegs w/CO2 setup and your brewing views will change. Mine did.

 

[PADave]

Rjanson, seriously don't quit. Two things helped me get passed the slump you are in my friend. BIAB, now you are making beer with the real deal (AG) and getting passed that boxed cake mix called extract. No offense to anyone intended. Secondly, bottling sucks, I mean really sucks. Kegging rocks and it is so simple. Soda kegs rule.

*BIAB

*Get an old freezer w/temp controller

*Couple of soda kegs w/CO2 setup and your brewing views will change. Mine did.

I'd agree with everything except the kegging part. I personally want nothing to do with kegs. More equipment, more stuff to buy, no thanks. Plus I like variety, so I'd need a setup with at least 3-4 taps. When I started brewing I was looking for options to bottling after my first few brews. But now I got figured out what works for me, and now the worst part is prepping all the bottles. But I even got that pretty much down to only being slightly painful. The key is to figure out what works for you in this whole process called home brewing and go with it.

 

[Weaves]

If you're having issues with beer why not try wines? They can be as simple as juice and concentrates with sugar, only downside is they take awhile [emoji20]

 

[mongoose33]

I'd agree with everything except the kegging part. I personally want nothing to do with kegs. More equipment, more stuff to buy, no thanks. Plus I like variety, so I'd need a setup with at least 3-4 taps.

Those sound like reasons why you SHOULD keg, not reasons why you should stay away.

 

[MaryB]

Many of the wine kits out there are drinkable in 4-6 weeks! Sure they improve with age but not much different than beer!

If you're having issues with beer why not try wines? They can be as simple as juice and concentrates with sugar, only downside is they take awhile [emoji20]

 

[rjanson]

If you're having issues with beer why not try wines? They can be as simple as juice and concentrates with sugar, only downside is they take awhile [emoji20]

I've considered that as well, but I'm thinking of sticking to getting good at one hobby at a time.

It does seem like it would be fun to try though. I just feel like bad beer is closer to good beer than bad wine is to good wine.

 

[rjanson]

I'd agree with everything except the kegging part. I personally want nothing to do with kegs. More equipment, more stuff to buy, no thanks. Plus I like variety, so I'd need a setup with at least 3-4 taps. When I started brewing I was looking for options to bottling after my first few brews. But now I got figured out what works for me, and now the worst part is prepping all the bottles. But I even got that pretty much down to only being slightly painful. The key is to figure out what works for you in this whole process called home brewing and go with it.

I do like the variety that bottles afford you. And I've purchased/collected enough bottles to allow me to have a number of brews bottled and ready to go.

Not ruling out kegging someday, just not ready to add that cost and variable to my brewing. I would love to have a couple of taps at home.

 

[Jaybird]

I would suggest go into your LHBS and just chat with the people. Ask good questions and maybe talk to them about a brew club in the area. Go hang out with other people brewing. You have 1 hell of a support group right here too! You will pick it up quick for sure. Let us know how the BIAB brew day went.

Good luck! Enjoy the ride. EVERY DAY you will learn something new. 15 years brewing, 7 years teaching in my store and MANY, MANY success stories of assisting people in their brewing processes and I still learn something new every day!

Ask away and you will be rewarded!

Cheers
Jay