I need at 8 L Starter!?!?

[ekjohns]

Using Mr. Malty i want to brew a standard amber ale with 0.75 lbs of crystal 60 and 8.5 lbs 2 row. OG 1.046, and with 3 month old white labs tube mr malty says i need an 8 L starter with a intermediate shaking (5. 26 L with stir plate). Does this seem right? Thats like half a batch is just a starter! thoughts?

 

[maltMonkey]

i would double check your numbers - i entered what you put above into mr malty and got a 2L starter for a lager.

 

[BlueWolf]

Wow, yeah I'd say that's not right.

 

[Beerrific]

Yeah, something is not right. What volume? 1.046 and manufacture date of 2/13 with (default) 5.25 gallons shows 2.75L with intermittent shaking.

 

[Great_Neck_Brewer]

No it doesn't. Think about it, you're going to add an 8L starter to 20L of wort. Go back and check your numbers.

 

[Beezer94]

The calculator can be rediculous at times. For instance I am brewing a 1.075 OG belgian IPA with 6 month old yeast, it says I need 5 vials in a 3.5L stir-plate starter or 14 vials in a 1L stir-plated starter.

Instead I made a 1L starter, chilled, decanted and added to a 1.5L starter (which is the size recommended for mine with fresh yeast). If you have a couple days, I think it's a much more realistic way to go. So make a small starter, chill, decant off the top liquid, and then add whats left to the size starter Mr. Malty calculates with fresh yeast.

 

[ekjohns]

Okay rechecked my numbers and this is what i get. Lager, O.G. 1.046, Volume 5.25, Production 2/13/2010 (viability 34%) tells me i need to pitch 2 tubes and on top of that do a 6.16 L starter! WOW! Ill spend more money buying the DME and effort than it would be worth it

 

[Yooper]

Okay rechecked my numbers and this is what i get. Lager, O.G. 1.046, Volume 5.25, Production 2/13/2010 (viability 34%) tells me i need to pitch 2 tubes and on top of that do a 6.16 L starter! WOW! Ill spend more money buying the DME and effort than it would be worth it

Yeah, a lager with "old" yeast requires a massive starter. But for an ale, you won't need nearly that much.

 

[BuzzCraft]

i can never get that damn calculator to work properly.

 

[ekjohns]

Yeah it says for a lager if you use just produced yeast with 97% viability and you your O.G. is at 1.048 you have to make over a 4 L starter. Is this what most people do for lagers or just say screw it and make a 2 L

 

[steinsato]

i can never get that damn calculator to work properly.

Same here. I'm sure it works fine. But I honestly find it to be a bit confusing. It tells you the starter size needed but I wish it would give you a rough estimate of how much DME to add to that water to make the starter.

 

[azscoob]

Using Mr. Malty i want to brew a standard amber ale with 0.75 lbs of crystal 60 and 8.5 lbs 2 row. OG 1.046, and with 3 month old white labs tube mr malty says i need an 8 L starter with a intermediate shaking (5. 26 L with stir plate). Does this seem right? Thats like half a batch is just a starter! thoughts?

Why are you looking at lager pitching rates if you are brewing an ale? did I miss something here?

 

[Beerrific]

Same here. I'm sure it works fine. But I honestly find it to be a bit confusing. It tells you the starter size needed but I wish it would give you a rough estimate of how much DME to add to that water to make the starter.

Have you read the accompanying pitching rate and starter pages that Jamil has on that site?

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

"Add 1 gram of DME for every 10 ml of final volume"

 

[munche]

I'm still having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around making some of these huge starters the calc comes up with for bigger beers. Someone else said they basically do their starters in the carboy and then pour the wort on top of it, I suppose I could try that. Or maybe I need a second 2L flask

 

[greenbirds]

The calculator can be rediculous at times. For instance I am brewing a 1.075 OG belgian IPA with 6 month old yeast, it says I need 5 vials in a 3.5L stir-plate starter or 14 vials in a 1L stir-plated starter.

Instead I made a 1L starter, chilled, decanted and added to a 1.5L starter (which is the size recommended for mine with fresh yeast). If you have a couple days, I think it's a much more realistic way to go. So make a small starter, chill, decant off the top liquid, and then add whats left to the size starter Mr. Malty calculates with fresh yeast.

+1
This is the best way to go. It's hard to calculate if the first starter you make will be equivalent to producing a fresh White Labs tube (~100 billion cells), but it should be roughly accurate. Then you can make a normal sized starter from there to pitch in your beer.

 

[ekjohns]

What is seems like i have been getting from doing a bunch of searches is that the Mr. malty calc is for the absoulte best results bar none, but simply making around a 2 litter starter from yeast that is not brand new but within the "best by" date is going to get you very close that it doesnt really matter and any off flavors will probably never show up due to underpitching. Does this seems right or is it just wishfull thinking

 

[BuzzCraft]

What is seems like i have been getting from doing a bunch of searches is that the Mr. malty calc is for the absoulte best results bar none, but simply making around a 2 litter starter from yeast that is not brand new but within the "best by" date is going to get you very close that it doesnt really matter and any off flavors will probably never show up due to underpitching. Does this seems right or is it just wishfull thinking

IMO, the calculator itself is the wishful thinking. I'm sure it's accurate for reasonably fresh vials IF they have been handled properly (how many of us know it's been handled properly before we get our hands on it?). We'd like to think it's the scientific way of going about it, but there are still too many unknowns and as with any science, garbage in - garbage out.

Take the pitching from slurry suggestions, do you know your non-yeast fraction? How long has your slurry been sitting in the carboy (i.e. are you a primary only for a month kinda brewer?).

If you want to apply science, you have to count your own yeast (again, IMO). If you want to pretend you're being scientific, use the calculator.

Perhaps being a bit harsh, but that's how I see it.

Edit: and yes, also IMO, your 2L starter will put you where you want to be for most ales of reasonable gravity.

 

[ekjohns]

yeah im a grad student and the though of bringing in a sample and counting on our hemocytometer (fancy cell counting equipment) has crossed my mind but my boss would kill me if she knew i was bringing in yeast (they are actually VERY! hard to kill)