I love Dry Yeast

[sundowner]

I'd like to know where you got this statistic from?

It's really funny but on every bjcp sponsored homebrew contest I have ever entered I have never noticed a spot where it asked what type of yeast was used, just like I have never come across a spot on the entry applications where it asks whether or not the beer was all grain or extract.

Nor have I ever after the fact been asked to fill out a survey asking whether or not I brew with liquid or dry yeast or ag or extract.

So I call shenanigans on the above as anything other than another brewing urban legend or marketing ploy....

Seriously Denny I respect you immensely, but show me that data that you use to back that claim up.

I'll answer that for denny...since it was me.

Zymurgy has a habit of publishing winning recipes from the NHC every year and yes they list a yeast and the grain/extract bill, as do most other competitions on the entry form.

On the form notice the part on 'yeast culture' and just to the right of that notice the list for 'fermentables'.

http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/pdf/Entry_Recipe_Form.pdf

Save your sermons for someone else

 

[Revvy]

I do that but it is a PITA, Since I am now 1.5 hours each way to the LHBS and don't want to pay for overnight shipping, I use dry more often than liquid and seems every year there are more varieties of dry.

As far as GF, Yeast itself is GF, the Gluten you get is from what it ate in the culture, since most yeast is cultured in a gluten environment it gets contaminated

Again not according to the podcast I cited....it's gluten freeness is a product first of the environment it is grown in or on....if you are gowing it in a wort medium similar to what we brew with, it will not be gluten free...that is what fermentis states...and that is why they grow it in a mollases medium..


Secondly it's gluten freeness it also a product of it's own ability to produce it's own gluten, that is why again from fermentis, that it is not really recommended to pitch on top of or wash reuse their yeast while trying to maintain a truly gluten free enviroment.

Again, this info comes from Fermentis and is reported in the above podscasts....they stress that A) All of their products are the only gluten free yeasts (at the time of those podcasts.) And that it will spontaneously produce it's own gluten after a couple of generations.

 

[Revvy]

Save your sermons for someone else

Why do you feel that Denny is incapable of speaking for himself? I like and respect Denny alot and we have talked on here on occasion, both pubically and pm. And have agreed far more times than we have ever disagreed....I have even brewed some complicated things like my partigyle based on things I leaned from him, and even credited/thanked him for the help.

This is not an argument between us it is simply me asking where he got his facts.....nothing more....

Secondly why do you have to be a jerk about it? I wasn't in asking for the info from him,...and even said I would fully add and adendum to the info...

 

[sundowner]

Dude, you just don't get it. It was me who posted that "ludicrous" statistic. It wasn't denny...it was me...

Did you read the entry form about the yeast and fermentables?

How was I being a jerk?

 

[Revvy]

How was I being a jerk. You're the one sounding like a jerk.

Your use of the term "sermons," sure as heck comes off as seemingly a little derogatory to me. Using the word sermon outside of a theological context is often used as a derisive term....or at least as a sarcastic one...Which I wasn't being.

Especially if it is being used to a member of the clergy about something non-theologically related....understand why it seems to me that you are being "jerk?"

And no I haven't gotten a chance to read that, because after hunting through over 10,000 posts of mine, to back up what I was saying was also dealing with online discussions and grieving about the death of a pretty regular member of this forum...and a pretty nice guy.

I will look at it later...when things feel a little less heated than they do right now. I didn't expect after asking for a bit more info and providing some source material of my own was going to provoke a "duelling match" with someone one here who I have never come across before....

 

[Pappers_]

How was I being a jerk?

"Save your sermons for someone else."

 

[sundowner]

Well, I have been known to be a little sardonic, especially when someone jumps on me. All I tried to say was: You're wrong about the info on BJCP competition entry forms and you are.

So peace and goodwill..

 

[Bernie Brewer]

How was I being a jerk?

Save your sermons for someone else

That's how.


Listen- there are less than a handful of folks on this board that you can ALWAYS trust to be respectful, no matter how many different ways their posts can be interpreted, and Revvy is one of them. If he says he meant no disrespect, you can take it to your grave. You owe him an apology.

 

[Pappers_]

So peace and goodwill..

Keeping in the liturgical theme - "And also with you"

Cheers mate!

 

[Revvy]

Well, I have been known to be a little sardonic, especially when someone jumps on me. All I tried to say was: You're wrong about the info on BJCP competition entry forms and you are.

So peace and goodwill..

Well without further turning this into a pissing match....

Feel free to enter any made up or real beer you want in one of these two BJCP sponsored competitions...because in the two years I have entered beers in there, I have never even been asked for a recipe...only "special ingredients" if it was one of the categories requesting that info...

AND never have I been asked about the yeast I use...

2009 Michigan Renaissance Festival Competition

The one below last year included over 800 entries, and since this is supposed to be the last year of the Michigan State fair I know of several brewers in Michigan who entered this contest for the first time soley because it may be the last year. So I would think this year 1,000 is not going to be a surprise.

Welcome to the Michigan State Fair 2009 Home Brewing Competition website

Nor have I ever come across it in any of the paper and pencil entries I have filled out for any of the smaller comps I may have entered, bjcp sponsored or otherwise.....

Sorry I can't scan and post any of those, to back me up, but if I still had them I would most definitely do so.

Or else I wouldn't have made such a statement about my experiecne.

So again, in my exerience I have never had anything I have entered, whether they placed or not been counted in the data...nor have approximately 800 other beers a year in the State Fair competition alone that I know of, have been asked whether it was brewed with liquid or dry yeast, allgrain or otherwise.....

and I am not sure how many entries in the last 3 years of the beer baron's Brew Ball, but since it is at a Major Rennaisance festival in michigan, I would probably venture a minimum 200 beers a year were entered, so there is 600 enteries in bjcp contests where the question wasn't asked.

So I personally know of at least 3,000 beers in my state alone where yeast info was NOT included as part of a sanctioned competition. So therefore there was no way to determine whether or not the winner brewed with dry or wet, or all grain for that matter....

I mean, we are all clicking on the same links afterall.

And there's 50 states in the union? And I do know that many of the online registratons for contests appear to use the same software backbone, so I would assume that they don't ask either for consistency across the bjcp.

So honestly, I think any data on that "AG is Wins More that Extract" or "Liquid wins more that Dry" STILL seems a little bit flawed stastically.....


I have no more to add to this discussion with you, I don't know how I can be "wrong" about what I said about yeast being included in any of the contests I have entered. If you can find the spot on the forms that I filled out I would like to see it.

 

[sundowner]

I couldn't find the entry forms on those links. Many competitions don't require the recipe, but it is on the form. When you enter the larger comps, most do require you to fill out the recipe section.

I'm offended by the "pissing' remark!

Don't make me post a picture of all my ribbons...

Ok..I'm just kidding. This got far too serious for me.

Once again

Peace

 

[CharlosCarlies]

As to dry yeast being less expensive, that's just not true.

I fail to see how this could be even remotely true.

a)liquid yeast is more expensive from the very beginning (no arguments here I'm sure)
b)you can harvest/wash dry yeast slurry just as easily as liquid
c)risk of infection is higher when making a starter...especially for novice brewers. tossing a batch, even if it only happens <5-10% of the time, costs money!

AND...most importantly for me:

d)making starters takes TIME and for a lot of people TIME = MONEY

 

[sundowner]

AND...most importantly for me:

d)making starters takes TIME and for a lot of people TIME = MONEY

Since I'm independently wealthy, I didn't think of that. My sincere apologies.

 

[dirt55]

Safale US-05!!!! My go too yeast for a surefire good time!

 

[flyangler18]

I tend to use more liquid yeast than dry, though I don't usually factor cost into the equation since I harvest a small sample from every strain vial I use to slant for future propagation; a single vial can, theoretically, be used indefinitely.

I dislike the tartness I get from Nottingham, so I rarely use it - though I have a few sachets in my supply fridge.

There are subtle differences between many English and American strains that can be emphasized by process - some allow the malt to shine through; others, the hops, etc.

 

[Revvy]

Don't make me post a picture of all my ribbons...

Ok..I'm just kidding. This got far too serious for me.

Once again

Peace

LOL...I just did realize that before I even countered you, you DID get called out by Denny....about that ludicrious 10-1 award thing.

That's tantamount to getting called out by Arnold Palmer to show your golf cards.

Because unless your last name happens to be Zainasheff (or Woods in golf) then it's doubtful that you have more ribbons then Denny does. And if he said that they don't ask about yeast in contests, he would know more about that than I would.

You might wanna check into his credentials a wee bit.

Let me help.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Denny



Peace!!!!

 

[sundowner]

LOL...I just did realize that before I even countered you, you DID get called out by Denny....about that ludicrious 10-1 award thing.

I'm well aware of who Denny is. He just asked the source of my statistic and was polite enough not to call it "ludicrous". I actually think the ratio is higher.

When Zymurgy publishes some of the winning recipes from the NHC..check to see how many used dry yeast. There are competitions outside the State of Michigan.

You don't know when to stop, but I do.

 

[Denny]

I'll answer that for denny...since it was me.

Zymurgy has a habit of publishing winning recipes from the NHC every year and yes they list a yeast and the grain/extract bill, as do most other competitions on the entry form.

On the form notice the part on 'yeast culture' and just to the right of that notice the list for 'fermentables'.

http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/pdf/Entry_Recipe_Form.pdf

Save your sermons for someone else

NHC dooes ask for recipes for beers that make it to the final round so they can be published in Zymurgy if they win. I've entered and run LOTS of other comps and recipes have never been asked for in any of those.

 

[Denny]

Not from what I heard on the basic brewing podcast a couple years back that was all about gluten free brewing and yeasts (I have posted the link to the discussion in various gluten free threads.) The discussion seemed to stress that fermentis was the only one.

The links to the info I use to back up my claim can be found here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/985103-post7.html

But hey if they are and you can show me the info, then I will include that whenever I get asked about gluten free brewing.....I'll even go back and revise that old post to include the links so anyone who searches for the info in the future will find it.

You have outdated info....

Wyeast Laboratories. Gluten Free Liquid Yeast from Wyeast Laboratories, Inc.™ April 26, 2007

 

[Denny]

This is not an argument between us it is simply me asking where he got his facts.....nothing more....

Guess I missed that...you mean facts about GF yeast or whether dry or liquid is more prevalent? If it's GF, I've posted that info.

 

[Denny]

Well, I have been known to be a little sardonic, especially when someone jumps on me. All I tried to say was: You're wrong about the info on BJCP competition entry forms and you are.

So peace and goodwill..

There is no "BJCP entry form". Every comp sets their own rules and makes their own forms. LIke I said, in 10 years of entering and running comps, I've never run across one other than NHC that asks for recipes. I know there are a few out there that do, but they're in the minority.

 

[Revvy]

You have outdated info....

Wyeast Laboratories. Gluten Free Liquid Yeast from Wyeast Laboratories, Inc.&#8482; April 26, 2007

Oh awesome, I'll update that info in the post with the podcasts!!!!!



But I did notice it is only 1 ale and one lager yeast yet...so basically there are 3 dry and 2 liquid that we know of that can be used. But I guess there's no way to make a "gluten free" Belgian Spelt or something beer yet...nothing you can get the phenols needed from it yet.

This got me thinking I don't need to brew GF...but I wonder if there's a way to get some of that funk, peppery-ness or phenols, into a Spelt beer or something? What do you think?

 

[sundowner]

There is no "BJCP entry form". Every comp sets their own rules and makes their own forms. LIke I said, in 10 years of entering and running comps, I've never run across one other than NHC that asks for recipes. I know there are a few out there that do, but they're in the minority.

My intention is to bow out of this subject, but since it's you, I'll respond.

I should have said 'AHA sanctioned competitions' rather than BJCP. Yes, the comps make their own forms & rules, but most of those forms have a common theme...a recipe section. Those of us who enter on a semi-regular basis understand that it is not a requirement to fill it out, unless ask to do so. Most don't ask, but many ask us to be willing to submit the recipe if asked to do so.

I've already said that most don't ask for it, but some of the larger competitions do. I know that the KC Beer Meisters would not accept my on-line registration without it & I certainly could not have entered the NHC without it. Maybe it was a flaw in my internet connection or just a bad computer.

 

[Denny]

Just FYI, there are no AHA sanctioned comps. The BJCP does the sanctioning. And I've still gotta tell ya that in 10 years of entering and running comps, NHC is the only one that asked for a recipe. I'm certainly not saying there aren't others, but it's far less likely than you believe.

 

[Revvy]

There are competitions outside the State of Michigan.

Yeah and I have entered a few too, that were bjcp, and I never was asked for a recipe, and they were all online as well, and pretty much used the same pull down step by step registration that I linked to, in fact I have been noticing a lot of comps are using the same online company for registration, because they all tend to look exactly the same, and work the same.

I'm pretty sure you didn't try too hard to look for the links to enter a beer in the links I offered, or else you would have come upon something that looks like this.

Which as you can see asks for Name of beer, category, assistant brewer, then if you click on a category like 21 it will then ask you for what spices and other ingredients go in there...but even then they still don't ask for what type/brand of yeast.

And then generated this label that goes on the beer bottles, not to different from the State fair ones, etch for the frilly knight border.

http://www.snobsbrewclub.com/renfest/graphics/forms/Blank_2009_B_Label.pdf

But tell me, how many comps outside of Michigan can say that they get a minimum of 800 beers/per contest? You may not realize that Michigan has one of the largest concentrations of homebrewers that nearly any state, and has more homebrew shops than many states...I think we are in the top 5 if I recall...

I have about 7 alone in no more than an hours drive, and 3 in my town which has around 30,000 people.

And were are not on the bottom of the list for contests either.

We were one of the first states to legalize microbreweries, and have over 60 microbreweries/brewpubs in our state, many which have won awards at the GABF.

So we aren't "podunk" homebrewers here. Nor am I...And fyi, John Palmer began his homebrewing experience in Michigam as well.

All we were getting at was that perhaps your "Liquid Yeast wins 10-1 hands down" comment may have been in error, or the stats that you were using might be a bit skewed.....

 

[bob1852]

FWIW the Great Arizona Homebrew Competition asks for ingredients and yeast on the entry form...

back to topic - I prefer dry, mainly because my main styles (IPAs, APAs, and Graff) go so well with US-05 or Notty.

Plus I'm 200 miles away from a LHBS and shipping liquid yeast to Arizona is pretty much out of the question for 9 months out of the year.

As for cost - sadly dry is starting to creep up in price ---> $3.39 for US-05 at AHS now

please take the who has a bigger "yeast" debates to another thread. I come to HBT because we all usually get along, or at least debate beer related topics in a friendly and respectful manner, and quite honestly, some of the latter parts of this thread have made me shake my head in disgust.

I think Evan! has said it best in the debate forum - (paraphrasing) if someone calls you out to explain your side of the story, do it with intelligence and facts; not sarcasm and personal attacks....

 

[sundowner]

So we aren't "podunk" homebrewers here. Nor am I...And fyi, John Palmer began his homebrewing experience in Michigam as well.

All we were getting at was that perhaps your "Liquid Yeast wins 10-1 hands down" comment may have been in error, or the stats that you were using might be a bit skewed.....

I never said anything bad about Michigan or you. You're the one who jumped on me for some reason. I suppose, because I say award winning beers are brewed with liquid yeast 10-1 over dry.

Zymurgy Sept/Oct 2009 issue.

First place winning beer recipes published

Liquid yeast-23
Dry yeast-0

I feel certain that 2nd and 3rd place winners are similar...All-grain over extract was overwhelming too.

 

[sundowner]

FWIW the Great Arizona Homebrew Competition asks for ingredients and yeast on the entry form...

I entered that competition 3 times...won 2 1st & a 3rd.

I don't enter as much anymore and that's one I dropped off my list. Real nice folks though...

 

[CharlosCarlies]

Since I'm independently wealthy, I didn't think of that. My sincere apologies.

Haha I almost forgot about this thread, but this is just classic and seems to fit in pretty perfectly w/ sundowner's overall demeanor towards everybody in this thread.

And since when does being wealthy have to do w/ what your time costs you? If anything, it just means the extra time is in fact more expensive for you since you could be doing something more useful/profitable w/ your time.

 

[sundowner]

I was smart enough to get out of the stock market at the top of the tech boom.

I brew by moonlight & starlight..."Blame it on midnight. Shame on the moon."