I hate flu shots!

[Mobeers]

They make a nasal spray flu shot. It's available to the military but I don't know about the general public. But it probaly has anthrax or some crazy crap in it!

 

[sudsmcgee]

That's not even close to true. And what makes you say that there is no sun during monsoon season? That's traditionally when the sun is at its peak for the area.

But people do certainly get colds in the summer. Many do. And while there's the tiniest bit of merit to your claims, it's only in that people with low vitamin D are more susceptible.

But yes, people can and do get colds at any time of the year. It is a virus, and infection with the virus will (usually) result in symptoms. There certainly is such a thing as flu season, and most of it actually is, in a way, because aren't getting much sun. But more accurately, it's because people are staying indoors more - the drier air and the increase in the amount of time that people spend in close proximity together are perfect circumstances for this virus to thrive and spread.

The drop in vitamin D MIGHT make people more susceptible to it, but even then, it's a relatively small effect compared to the above. And just about anyone living at a latitude that has snow for even a month most years should be supplementing anyways. However, good humidifiers and proper sanitation would have a far greater impact. Unfortunately, the former is really only in your control at home (and maybe at work), and with the biggest factor of all - proper sanitary practices - you only have control over yourself, which can be rendered moot by a family member or coworker with more lax standards.

Except that it's very close to true for most people (but not all, I'll admit), and overall the data supports it. Vitamin D is not technically a vitamin, it's a secosteroid hormone that plays a very important role in regulating the innate immune system through the upregulation of antimicrobial peptides. To state that vitamin D has a relatively small effect on immune function is to admit that one really doesn't don't know much about the function of vitamin D in the body, particularly the lungs.

Researchers have known for nearly a century that low vitamin D increases susceptibility to to tuberculosis, and that vitamin D repletion through sunlight or UVB exposure can be clinically helpful for many people with the disease.

Same thing goes for MS, psoriasis and certain types of asthma. Newer data suggests that vitamin D might even play a role in cancer progression, and as we speak, pilot studies are ongoing to determine what impact vitamin D may have on cancer progression.

Your statement that being indoors in dry air has some truth to it, but it doesn't account for the flu season in tropical humid climates where people live outside with no doors or windows yet still get the flu predominantly at the time of the year where there is less sun.

Is vitamin D a cure all for the flu? No, of course not, but neither is the flu shot. Will it help most people to increase their immune function? Absolutely.

 

[bottlebomber]

Is vitamin D a cure all for the flu? No, of course not, but neither is the flu shot. Will it help most people to increase their immune function? Absolutely.

Emjay? Is that you?

 

[emjay]

Except that it's very close to true for most people (but not all, I'll admit), and overall the data supports it. Vitamin D is not technically a vitamin, it's a secosteroid hormone that plays a very important role in regulating the innate immune system through the upregulation of antimicrobial peptides. To state that vitamin D has a relatively small effect on immune function is to admit that one really doesn't don't know much about the function of vitamin D in the body, particularly the lungs.

Researchers have known for nearly a century that low vitamin D increases susceptibility to to tuberculosis, and that vitamin D repletion through sunlight or UVB exposure can be clinically helpful for many people with the disease.

Same thing goes for MS, psoriasis and certain types of asthma. Newer data suggests that vitamin D might even play a role in cancer progression, and as we speak, pilot studies are ongoing to determine what impact vitamin D may have on cancer progression.

Your statement that being indoors in dry air has some truth to it, but it doesn't account for the flu season in tropical humid climates where people live outside with no doors or windows yet still get the flu predominantly at the time of the year where there is less sun.

Is vitamin D a cure all for the flu? No, of course not, but neither is the flu shot. Will it help most people to increase their immune function? Absolutely.

They're finding out a lot of what they thought about vitamin D has been overstated, but yes, it is important. I was speaking in a relative sense.

Hell, I even stressed the importance of supplementing vitamin D, for just about everyone in the US and Canada. Even spending a lot of time outside doesn't always solve it because the sun has to be at a specific angle, which gives a fairly small window of time for the reaction to occur, and even in the Northern US, there are months a time in the winter where the sun never reaches that angle at all. So I strongly advocate BOTH getting the flu shot, and supplementing with several thousand IU of vitamin D daily (though it'd be best to check your blood levels first). Both practices have very positive effects.

I guess my issue with your "out of the sun" argument was just that it sounded a bit too much like the myth that people get a cold or flu from merely being cold. The only thing I'd have to disagree with - and this is quibbling - is that vitamin D is indeed a vitamin. Functioning as a hormone as well does not preclude that.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

No shots for me. I dont trust the long term effects or any of the pharmaceutical companies. It's only a matter of time before the Bayer company ships out HIV tainted medicine again. The way I see it, it's a business, their in it for money not our health.

 

[porcupine73]

Interesting. Yes I was reading elsewhere that Bayer and others funded medical research at concentration camps. Not that it's specifically related to this thread but I always think of it when I see their aspirin commercials.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Every year I was forced by my parents to get a flu shot -- in my high school years -- within a couple days I felt miserable. I don't know what the relationship is but I felt sick 100% of the times I had the shot. In the most recent 13 years, I have only had something worse than a bad cold a handful or two of times. One was mono and one was a sinus infection. Neither are helped by a flu shot. I even worked a few cubicles down from two people who contracted swine flu. I got nothing. I'll take my odds without the shot.

 

[broadbill]

No shots for me. I dont trust the long term effects or any of the pharmaceutical companies. It's only a matter of time before the Bayer company ships out HIV tainted medicine again. The way I see it, it's a business, their in it for money not our health.

You are lucky that other people have no such qualms about it, as their immunity protects you indirectly (herd immunity).

But hey, a few more people around you start thinking like you and all of a sudden there is a measles outbreak in Key West. Weird how that happens.

FYI....HIV virus cannot survive more than a few seconds outside the human body.

 

[Grantman1]

You are lucky that other people have no such qualms about it, as their immunity protects you indirectly (herd immunity).

But hey, a few more people around you start thinking like you and all of a sudden there is a measles outbreak in Key West. Weird how that happens.

FYI....HIV virus cannot survive more than a few seconds outside the human body.

Nothing wrong with questioning a company. These pharm companies are for-profit entities. I am as skeptical toward them as anyone else who is trying to sell me something. Sure, they might make comforting commercials and have doctors pushing their products, but their ultimate goal, like any company, is to make a profit. And no, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's just business.

Enjoy your mercury sandwich if you'd like, but I'd rather risk 3-4 days of being uncomfortable than have one of the most toxic substances known to man injected into my bloodstream.

 

[bottlebomber]

Enjoy your mercury sandwich if you'd like, but I'd rather risk 3-4 days of being uncomfortable than have one of the most toxic substances known to man injected into my bloodstream.

If you go to an actual doctor and not one of those drive through flu shot clinics you will often times get a single usage flu shot which doesn't contain Thimerosal. Ask if you care.. As far as mercury, eat seafood? I've only had one flu shot in my life and it didn't seem to have an effect and my body didn't really dig it so I don't take them.

I've found that eating well, taking a food derived multi, and trying to maintain a positive mental attitude has kept me well more than any other thing.

 

[porcupine73]

Yes the other complication on mercury being that he hates the ADA almost more than the FDA. The ADA being completely complicit in the use of mercury amalgams for many years, and making it malpractice for member dentists to remove them for mercury poisoning concerns.

As far as mercury, eat seafood?

I don't get why people use this kind of argument so often. So ok if you can't completely avoid a known toxin you should just throw caution to the wind and not care at all how much of it you take in?!

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

You are lucky that other people have no such qualms about it, as their immunity protects you indirectly (herd immunity).

But hey, a few more people around you start thinking like you and all of a sudden there is a measles outbreak in Key West. Weird how that happens.

FYI....HIV virus cannot survive more than a few seconds outside the human body.

Most of the people I know...majority of the island... Absolutely refuse to get them and we seem to be doing fine without it, even being a tourist town. Actually, as many have experienced, those who got the shot are the only ones who get sick. I think they just tell people to get that stuff to make money off of everyone's fear of being vulnerable. Thats why theres a "new strain" every year. And I know more about HIV than I'd personally like to. I've had close family die from it because they received tainted blood in a blood transfusion back in the 80s. The Bayer HIV scandal is all too very real, research it some and it will make you cringe knowing that actually happened. Because for them it's about profits not people. Enjoy your flu shot, I'll enjoy eating a healthy balanced diet for immunity support.

 

[bottlebomber]

I don't get why people use this kind of argument so often. So ok if you can't completely avoid a known toxin you should just throw caution to the wind and not care at all how much of it you take in?!

It has nothing to do with throwing caution to the wind, it just has to do with how much you dislike mercury. Since a can of tuna has twice the mercury of a flu shot, it's not really logical to eat one while rejecting the other(at least on the grounds of mercury intake). I tend to steer clear of both of them.

 

[porcupine73]

Ah ok yes based completely on the sole basis of mercury intake I would agree. Frig if we've got any dental amalgams with mercury we've taken in far more than that.

 

[dfc]

I don't ever get them. Not only do I never get sick due to an auxiliary spleen, vaccines are unnecessary, and unsafe. You should know what's being put into your body at all times, especially medicine.

http://hpathy.com/homeopathy-papers/vaccines-untested-unsafe-and-unnecessary/

 

[dfc]

Its difficult to tell if these people get the flu virus they were inoculated for, or one that the vaccine doesn't provide protection for, or maybe they didn't even have a flu virus in the first place (there is a reason why everything is described as "flu-like symptoms"!)



2007....otherwise is been good pick for 20 of the 23 years the flu vaccine has been offered....



So to expand on your gambling idea: you wouldn't take a gamble that you had 50-70% chance of winning? When losing could mean being down-n'-out for 3-4 days, possible hospitalization and death?

I'll play devil's advocate.

http://thinktwice.com/flu_lie.htm

 

[Pratzie]

That was my fourth smallpox vaccine in my lifetime.

I will never get smallpox, I'll tell you that!

Smallpox germies have their own version of a Mr. Yuck sticker with a picture of your face on it lol

 

[dfc]

Best way to prevent the flu, hands down, is to take vitamin D supplements year round. Keep your blood level above 40 ng/ml and you will rarely get sick.

I've never had the flu shot in my life, and I've also never had the flu that I'm aware of. Never even had a cold in the last few years.

Ever wonder why we don't get colds or the flu in the summer? Short answer: sunlight. In tropical climates, the flu season is monsoon season (no sun).

Adequate vitamin D levels have also been shown to potentially combat cancer.

 

[mcspanner]

Or not....possibly


http://www.latimes.com/health/boost...olds-infections-study-20121002,0,377309.story

 

[dfc]

You are lucky that other people have no such qualms about it, as their immunity protects you indirectly (herd immunity).

But hey, a few more people around you start thinking like you and all of a sudden there is a measles outbreak in Key West. Weird how that happens.

FYI....HIV virus cannot survive more than a few seconds outside the human body.

Scare tactics. That's all that line of thinking is.

 

[sudsmcgee]

Or not....possibly


http://www.latimes.com/health/boost...olds-infections-study-20121002,0,377309.story

The design of that study was absolutely retarded. They gave them crazy high doses every month, when vitamin D is meant to be made/consumed almost daily. It's equivalent to a weight loss study that only lets you eat one day a month. This study only proves you can't expect taking vitamin D once a month to reduce colds. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[sudsmcgee]

Scare tactics. That's all that line of thinking is.

Agreed 100%. What's funny about the measles outbreaks is that many of the people affected have had their measles shots. So much for efficacy......

 

[sudsmcgee]

The only thing I'd have to disagree with - and this is quibbling - is that vitamin D is indeed a vitamin. Functioning as a hormone as well does not preclude that.

Actually, no, it's not technically a vitamin because it can be synthesized by the body. A vitamin by definition cannot be not made in the body. Granted, for many people vitamin D is conditionally essential though.....

 

[mcspanner]

The design of that study was absolutely retarded. They gave them crazy high doses every month, when vitamin D is meant to be made/consumed almost daily. It's equivalent to a weight loss study that only lets you eat one day a month. This study only proves you can't expect taking vitamin D once a month to reduce colds. Nothing more, nothing less.

Dosing frequency is dealt with in depth within the report here's a summary

Would the results of our study have been different if we had given participants vitamin D, 3300 IU/d, as opposed to 100 000 IU monthly? Opposite outcomes have been documented for trials of 4-monthly vs annual dosing regimens of vitamin D supplementation for risk of fractures.23 - 24 Several mechanisms have been proposed to explain how various dosing regimens may have different effects on immune function.25 However, it is purely speculative at this stage as to whether some conditions (eg, infections) require a smaller steady dose of vitamin D supplementation for benefit. Alternatively, genetic variation in vitamin D metabolism or signaling may modify the anti-infective effects of vitamin D. Vitamin D receptor polymorphisms have been linked to both susceptibility to tuberculosis26 and response to vitamin D supplements in patients with tuberculosis.27

I'd suggest it says a bit more than you are implying. By all means take supplements but don't believe they are necessarily as good for you as some would have you believe.

 

[sudsmcgee]

Dosing frequency is dealt with in depth within the report here's a summary

Would the results of our study have been different if we had given participants vitamin D, 3300 IU/d, as opposed to 100 000 IU monthly? Opposite outcomes have been documented for trials of 4-monthly vs annual dosing regimens of vitamin D supplementation for risk of fractures.23 - 24 Several mechanisms have been proposed to explain how various dosing regimens may have different effects on immune function.25 However, it is purely speculative at this stage as to whether some conditions (eg, infections) require a smaller steady dose of vitamin D supplementation for benefit. Alternatively, genetic variation in vitamin D metabolism or signaling may modify the anti-infective effects of vitamin D. Vitamin D receptor polymorphisms have been linked to both susceptibility to tuberculosis26 and response to vitamin D supplements in patients with tuberculosis.27

I'd suggest it says a bit more than you are implying. By all means take supplements but don't believe they are necessarily as good for you as some would have you believe.

You just confirmed what I'm saying. This study only proves that a biologically irrelevant dosing regimen doesn't help reduce respiratory infections, and they flat out say that it would be speculation to correlate their outcome with a normal daily dosing regimen (the way people actually use vitamin d in the real world). I just don't understand why these researchers can't design their protocols to mimic real-world scenarios. It's just dumb to me.

I also find it interesting that they didn't measure PTH levels, considering that PTH measurements are one of the only ways to determine that a person is truly vitamin D replete.

 

[broadbill]

Agreed 100%. What's funny about the measles outbreaks is that many of the people affected have had their measles shots. So much for efficacy......

You guys are right, its all bunk....there is absolutely no correlation between the autism scare of 1998, the drop in MMR vaccination rate in the UK in the years following increased incidence of mumps, measles and Rubella in that same time period.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

 

[sudsmcgee]

You guys are right, its all bunk....there is absolutely no correlation between the autism scare of 1998, the drop in MMR vaccination rate in the UK in the years following increased incidence of mumps, measles and Rubella in that same time period.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

The Andrew Wakefield case is one of the most prominent cases of medical fraud in the history of medicine. The problem is that Andrew Wakefield was right, and it's the rest of the medical community who performed criminal actions in their attack on him. Paul Offit is an industry shill and he makes a mint off of promoting mandatory vaccinations. Research both sides before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I'll get you started with this

 

[broadbill]

The Andrew Wakefield case is one of the most prominent cases of medical fraud in the history of medicine. The problem is that Andrew Wakefield was right, and it's the rest of the medical community who performed criminal actions in their attack on him. Paul Offit is an industry shill and he makes a mint off of promoting mandatory vaccinations. Research both sides before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I'll get you started with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIsFW5phHas

got it. It's all a conspiracy against poor Dr. Wakefield. Years and years of research studies are all wrong and his one (now retracted) research study was right. Years and years of vaccine use, all showing safe and effective protection from horrible infections (primarily affecting children)...that is all wrong too (or the real results being held back by a corrupt government...strike that, by multiple corrupt governments...all working together to suppress the truth).

I got it...you can't argue with crazy. cheers.

 

[mcspanner]

I got it...you can't argue with crazy. cheers.

Glad its not just me... I came to the same conclusion earlier.

Unsubscribing now.

 

[passedpawn]

got it. It's all a conspiracy against poor Dr. Wakefield. Years and years of research studies are all wrong and his one (now retracted) research study was right. Years and years of vaccine use, all showing safe and effective protection from horrible infections (primarily affecting children)...that is all wrong too (or the real results being held back by a corrupt government...strike that, by multiple corrupt governments...all working together to suppress the truth).

I got it...you can't argue with crazy. cheers.

I have little information on these conspiracy theories, and I usually ignore the conspiracies until the evidence is overwhelming.

But two things that are irrefutable and should be pointed out: there is a huge, HUGE amount of money in pharma, and people will do some seriously unethical and illegal stuff where big money is involved. These pharma companies are out to make money, not to make the world a healthier place. A bit of mistrust and inspection is necessary to keep them honest.