I got shut down - no more outdoor brewing

[jgln]

I think the definition of "open flame" needs to be clearly defined.

In my town, open burning is not allowed. In my case, that applies to an open pile of debris (limbs, leaves, construction debris, etc), burning anything in a drum (55 gallon barrel) and such. Burning wood/sticks in a fire pit, isn't frowned upon. I'm sure if I started throwing leaves in and stinking up the place, prompting a neighbor to complain, it probably would be frowned upon.

All that said, I maintain that using a cooking device for the sake of cooking - and that is what you are doing - is NOT open burning. Just a gas grill has grates, a grill, and a lid over the fire, a propane "fish cooker" has the grill around it, and (usually) a pot over the top of it.

I'd seek clarification, probably by way of continuing to brew until someone really wanted to challenge me on it.

Rules for multiple unit dwellings and associations where groups share common expenses are a lot different than for single homes, even more so the more rural you get. Cooking on decks, especially covered decks is not allowed at least in my area even using cooking devices. I have heard this law 2x here and I believe even he got confirmation from his local fire marshal it was not allowed. I know what you mean though, why not just say "with flame" rather than "open flame".
I also believe there might be something against using a tank of gas to cook with in such areas. There is fear if a fire does start a fireman doesn't want to be fighting a fire to find there is a tank of gas in the middle of it.

 

[redraider629]

One more reason I hate HOA's. If it is not a law how can the fire inspector tell you to stop brewing if you are caught?

 

[Hammy71]

What a bummer...just another reason we moved from our first home (a townhouse) to a single family home (with no HO) as soon as we could afford it. I'm a firm believer in property rights.....The right to do what ever I want (in reason of course) on the property I pay taxes and mortgage on...... Go electric for now....save some cash up...and get the hell outta dodge....

 

[blackwaterbrewer]

F**k authority. F**k the homeowners. F**k the government. you can find a way around it if you use this mindset to fuel your creativity and determination. Rules are for the weak minded. if you are being safe, then you will prevail. Brew on, brother!

 

[McKBrew]

The thing is that many cities have the same laws regarding cooking with grills, burners, etc... within X feet of a dwelling. It's not a HOA rule, but an actual part of code. Most places don't enforce it.

The OP could be a stickler for the the rules and request that the HOA enforce the rules for everyone, but most of us wouldn't be an ass just because we had the rules enforced on us.

Current options

1) Go electric
2) Find a way to be more discreet
3) Wait until you move
4) Smaller batches indoors.

Regardless of the "law" it still p!sses me off that there are busybodies out there that look to find trouble so that they can raise a stink.

 

[chrispykid]

Tough situation. This would be my strategy:

1. Move your brews out in front of the garage instead of inside. If you can't get 10 feet away from a structure, get as far away as you reasonably can.
2. Remember the HOA person said what you're doing is "probably illegal" which means that she doesn't know whether it is legal or not. Exploit that ignorance. Find a way to run into her and thank her for the warning, tell you checked it out with the FD and they confirmed that it's not legal to brew inside. You're glad you didn't get fined before you moved your operation into your new spot where you're "all clear."
3. Take visible and significant steps to reduce any whisper of a fire hazard. Wind screen, solid robust looking base for your rig, etc.
4. Clean up after every brew session and keep reasonable hours (not saying you don't already).
5. Make sure that you comply to the letter of the law with every other regulation of the HOA.
6. Throw a homebrew party for all of your immediate neighbors as soon as possible. You need to demystify your hobby and make these people beneficiaries of it rather than people that are annoyed by it. There might still be one nagging b!@ch that continues to make a fuss, but at least this way you have some allies in the community. Never underestimate the importance of being a good neighbor - kill them with kindness.

Good luck!

 

[KerryD]

I'd go in the yard where everyone is using their pits. Face it, this is all about complaints. If someone else complains, you will basically be in the same boat as everybody using their pits.... stop me, you got to stop them.

As far as HOA's go... I've dealt with them for 30 years in Construction and Real Estate. I've seen areas with poor HOA's or no HOA's struggle to keep values up. I've never seen an area with a strict HOA see decreased property values..... in fact it's exactly the opposite. And, that's what they are for when run correctly.

 

[hopsoda]

I'm Sorry to hear that , people need to mind there own business.

When I started brewing I used 2 - 5gal SS stock pots. I just boiled all my wort in 2 pots instead of 1 and added my hop additions 1/2 in each pot. That way I could boil all the wort for a 5 gal batch - then mix them together after cooling.

I'm not sure if that's a true full boil , but it worked , and it was the only way to bring that much liquid to a boil on my stove.

If you do get stuck doing indoor boils I hope that can help.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I brew in the garage for cover. WI winters pretty much suck, and now we're coming up on flood season (read: rain galore). So moving to an open area is sort of counterintuitive. I think going electric is a good option for now, assuming it's in any way cost effective. If a simple $150 heat stick will do the trick, I'm all for it! I heat up my mash and sparge waters on the stove anyway, the propane is just for the boil.
I also think people's suggestion of going to an HOA meeting is a good idea. Just put it out in the open as to what it is I'm doing.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Property value vs freedom. Personally, I'll take the freedom.

My parents lived in a new neighborhood years ago (they were the first house) and the damn association even stated what color of leaves your tree's had to be. WTF??

Oh yeah, carbon copy neighborhoods with neighbors that don't speak to each other.. unless it's via the HOA for a complaint. That's the lifestyle!

I'd rather be living in a shack in duh woods. (well one with Internet, gas and power, phone...)

 

[hopsoda]

Do they make those sticks , in 220v? if there 110v they might not get hot enough , or take a really long time. (I'm just assuming I have never used one)
you might want to look at a 220v, hot water tank element , I have a 5500w element in a kettle and it will bring 5-6 gal of liquid to a boil in about 30min.
there about 12-15 $ and you have to do some fabricating with other parts.

There is some examples on here somewhere but i cant seem to find them now?
anyway ... its cheaper and it works , just be safe around electricity.

 

[ewbish]

Why I don't live in the city. Life is so much simpler in rural S. AZ. Instead of homeowner associations and police patrols, we have AR-15's and property lines.

It's very simple, no complex BS like "define just what is meant by an open flame". Here, it basically works like this...........don't let your issues, attitude, or animals cross my property line, and I won't shoot it/you with my AR-15.

There is true beauty in the simple elegance of it and it's amazing how much better people get along under a very simple set of rules like this.

 

[Austin_]

I feel your pain. I live in a townhouse and all I have are little back and front porches that are covered with balconies. I wish I could brew out on my front porch, but I understand the ordinances in place are there for safety. Hell, there's some people that live around me that I wouldn't trust rubbing two sticks together, much less using a propane burner.

You should look in to trying the Texas Two-Step with a small 3-5 gallon cooler.

 

[vav]

How is this even a debate? Keep doing what you're doing. **** your HOA.

 

[sirsloop]

brew in the street. Got any laws about open flame in the street?

 

[COLObrewer]

I'd park an old ****ty ass camp trailer in the lot and convert it to a brewhouse, but then they probably would bitch about that.... come on people wake TF up!!! It's time for a Dang revolt I tell ya, people have lost their minds....can't control the govt so they want to make their own and the more rules the better....man .. . never mind.

 

[beesy]

I lived in a condo for 4 years or so and it has been my experience that people bitch just to bitch. You get a lot of people that sit around and have nothing better to do than make others miserable because they somehow think they are entitled to act as undercover agents. These type of people piSX me off big time.
Last year i was in a city park with my 60degree hitting some golf balls and some ****** bag comes up to me and ******* on how $500,000 was just spent to reseed the park's grass last year and i was ruining "his" park and blah blah blah. I just ignored him and then he comes back in 10 minutes with his dog (off leash which is against the law mind you) and tries intimidating me with it. "My house sits on the edge of this park" and blah blah blah. The dog came up and licked my hand and i would never hurt a dog, but I pulled out my phone and told him he had about 5 seconds to get his dog away from me before it got a wedge to the cranium and that i was calling the police to file an assault report against him for using his dog in a threatening manner and for not having dog on leash in a municipal park. He changed his tone fairly quickly. Some people just need to realize they're total dicks!!:rockin::rockin:

 

[Corkster]

I say you get drunk and then get naked and then go brew your beer in public.... yeah.. that'll show 'em!

 

[ChshreCat]

Watch out for the Tulpa, man...

 

[stevea1210]

I am truly sorry for this. I am in agreement with many that this was probably brought on by lack of understanding. A few cold ones can fix a lot of bad feelings.

I say if you can afford electric, it may be your best option currently. It's cheaper than a new house at least.

 

[The Pol]

Electric is fairly cheap... and it is very convenient.

 

[SOB]

$70 a year, that is cheap. How many units in your association? I pay well over $1k a year but we are a small association of 7 units, one property/building. We maintain our own private pool though.

Jersey vs outside of Columbus, Ohio maybe? I think the Cost of Living is a little less. PLus this isnt a real classy area or anything. There's...I dunno...200 single family homes here? I see people technically breaking the "rules" all the time but no one gives a crap! We still have a VERY nice community, no crime, all the houses are under 10 years old, and everyone just minds their business. Unless that damn neighbor dog comes over here again, then I'm pulling out my AR-50 like that dude from AZ said!!!

That's still a direct violation of the same rule he's breaking. He's less likely to get caught, but you're still violating the same law while not standing up for yourself. But that's more important to some than others.

Do you NEED to stand up for yourself?! Let your pride\manliness go for a few minutes and RDWHAHB! That's what I say...there's much more to worry about than proving a point to something that could give a $hit less anyways. If no one sees you, you have nothing to worry about. Now, I'm not saying wear all black and hide in the bushes, just keep the garage door open a foot or two (this should keep the top open to help exhaust) and do your thing! That's what I do in the winter to keep some heat in.

 

[pen25]

I got a call from my homeowners association this weekend. In the message the woman says somethign to the afftect of "some people have noticed you brewing... something in the garage. Whatever it is, I think it's probably against fire safety laws and we'd like you to stop."
I called up my local fire dept this morning to get some info, and, indeed, an open flame within 10 feet of a structure is not allowed in a townhome setting like ours. He didn't say it was illegal, but if an inspector saw it they would make me stop.
I do not have a private yard large enough that would keep me 10 ft from a wall or fence, which means I'm moving operations indoors. Which means 2.5-3 gal batches since our stove sucks. Which means my banjo cooker and 20 gallon Blichmann are essencially useless to me until we move. This f'n BLOWS!

sounds like youll be going electric.

 

[Zul'jin]

Useful reply.
Go electric either indoors or outdoors.
If your electric stove can't do the volume of wort you want at once and you don't want to buy a stove that can, split your batches.
Find out what exactly is "open flame" and try to make your propane burner not an open flame.

Really useful reply.
*%^& CODE ENFORCEMENT!

 

[Christian]

Go electric so there are no issues with the city and now that you have let the HOA know what you are brewing that will stop the letters. I live in a house but still have an HOA i hate them and their stupid rules.

As far as HOA's go... I've dealt with them for 30 years in Construction and Real Estate. I've seen areas with poor HOA's or no HOA's struggle to keep values up. I've never seen an area with a strict HOA see decreased property values..... in fact it's exactly the opposite. And, that's what they are for when run correctly.

I hate living with an HOA and paying 600 a year to live by their stupid rules. However i do love that even though the neighborhoods surrounding me have the same style and size houses and lots, all built around the same time, my neighborhoods property values are tens of thousands more and that's because of the HOA. I like money and so in that respect i do like the HOA.

 

[Figbash]

Electricity is a LOT more expensive than propane. Tell whoever is bitching to mind their own damn business. There is no difference between propane burner and a propane grill or turkey fryer. It's amazing how some feel that if someone is doing something a little out of the ordinary, they must be doing something wrong.

Tom

 

[The Pol]

Electricity is a LOT more expensive than propane. Tell whoever is bitching to mind their own damn business. There is no difference between propane burner and a propane grill or turkey fryer. It's amazing how some feel that if someone is doing something a little out of the ordinary, they must be doing something wrong.

Tom

Converting to electric can be more expensive in some cases, but electricity is cheaper to operate than propane, quieter, easier to control, no CO and it doesnt run out in the middle of a boil.

 

[GNBrews]

Driveway/parking lot is a pretty narrow area that would piss a lot of people off if I were to set up there. They got pissy when we had a garage sale that spilled into that area. Our direct neighbors, the ones we share walls with, don't care. They find it pretty cool, and know another homebrewer in MN. I think the association just doesn't like us very much. They've been giving us a hard time over our dog lately because he has separation anxiety and has a bad day once in a while. At least he doesn't run off leash like some other people's dogs. Grr.

Separation anxiety or not..barking dogs P*** me off too. You owe it to your neighbors to get that problem under control.

 

[epimortum]

This is why I'd rather be homeless somewhere in the middle of the Canadian wilderness than live within the confines of a HOA.

It is evident, as others have pointed out, that the "complaint" appears to be made out of pure ignorance as opposed to maleficence. This is reinforced by your comment regarding the lady's response. While you can't cure stupid, you can at least, attempt to raise awareness within your community.

Try starting a neighbourhood brew-club and if there is an outdoor commons area try to utilize that for your brew club's sessions. If you have to rent it, then so be it. While I understand the reasons for the "no open flame" bit; it is defiantly vague and is in need of refinement.

Otherwise, GTFO ASAP and best of luck.

Ohh, and just brew wherever everyone else uses their grills; otherwise going electric might have to keep you over. Also, maybe look into meads and wines which wouldn't require cooking.

Again, best of luck.

 

[beerocd]

OK this thread got huge. Anyone suggest affixing your banjo to the BBQ grill? It will still be against the rules but who's gonna narc on a BBQ grill? You would have to shut down probably half the subdivision for BBQ'ing. Find a loophole, follow the rules to the letter, piss em all off!

-OCD