I broke a lot of rules

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Deriede

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Good evening,

I was talking to a friend about brewing. I realized that, without a bit of research, a lot of standards we as homebrewers do might not be available without a good bit of research. This friend and I talked about sanitation, brewing practices, etc., And I wanted to try and break some rules to make a brew and see how it turns out.

Rule 1.) I did not use starsan. I sanitized all my equipment with boiling water and hydrogen peroxide from the dollar general. I have starsan, I personally think it is the gold standard for sanitizing, but this is an experiment. Boiling water and peroxide.

Rule 2.) I squeezed the bag. I've never squeezed the bag, I've heard horror stories about tannins and off flavors. I said screw it, squeezed the bag.

Rule 3.) Water. I have always used bottled spring water for brewing. This time, I used a publicly available mountain spring for the water. No additions, no nutrients, just water from this spout coming out of the mountain.


I am doing this experiment with two kits I am very familiar with- the Irish red ale kit and the dry Irish stout kit, both from northern Brewer. I am not a full grain brewer, between grad school and my kit, extract brewing is most convenient for me right now, and I figured would the average new brewer would start with extract anyways. Both are fairly malty, and the water profile around here has a good amount of chlorates.


I'll post an update in 4-5 weeks when the beers are bottled and carbonated. The purpose of this experiment is to see how a brew turns out when some standard homebrew conventions are broken. I am super excited to try my two favorite styles when I break a few rules making them. I also hope to let my friend know what, exactly, happens when things are brewed the way they intended to brew them before we talked.


Note: I did highly recommend my friend not do what I did. I am so excited to see how this turns out, I will keep y'all posted.
 
Otoh, nihilism in brewing seems weird...

Cheers!
But it is fun to test the "accepted" norms. When I first started brewing, racking to a secondary fermentor was the norm. Now it seems unsupportable and odd.

I once made beer without yeast. I just tossed in juniper berries from a local bush. I made beer. It's almost as if nature desires beer to be made - chaos and entropy favors beer. I like that thought.
 
But it is fun to test the "accepted" norms. When I first started brewing, racking to a secondary fermentor was the norm. Now it seems unsupportable and odd.

I once made beer without yeast. I just tossed in juniper berries from a local bush. I made beer. It's almost as if nature desires beer to be made - chaos and entropy favors beer. I like that thought.
That's what I'm hoping. I haven't made beer without yeast (you give me some good ideas, juniper isn't native to where I live but we have other berries), but I love it. It's just a little deviation, but the more I think about it, the more I want to try all kinds of wild brews
 
As an engineer whose entire career was based on deterministic results I don't see any enjoyment in adding risk...

Cheers!
That's the thing man. I'm not an engineer, but I'm in graduate school for speech language pathology. Everything is so orderly and about minimizing risk, the thought of doing some off the wall stuff seemed so fun
 
I should say my thoughts are based on 10 gallons to the kegs. Besides the time investment, some of my beers are quite pricey to build, hence painful if lost. And as I have never lost a batch in almost 20 years of brewing I'm not inclined to add risk to my normal brewing.

Otoh, if I had the inclination I could see doing all kinds of "unconventional brewing" - in one gallon batches :)

Cheers!
 
I like the spirit but I think you can break larger rules! Boiling water does sanitize, a lot of people squeeze the bag and a lot of people use well and city water. Laziness has cause homebrewers to push the boundaries in many areas - no chill, warm fermented lagers etc... So I challenge you to get more creative.
 
Do you know what risk is? It's probability times consequence. In a hobby like this, the consequence is zero. So no risk.

Clearly wrong. PKU...

I should say my thoughts are based on 10 gallons to the kegs. Besides the time investment, some of my beers are quite pricey to build, hence painful if lost.

Cheers!
 
I like the spirit but I think you can break larger rules! Boiling water does sanitize, a lot of people squeeze the bag and a lot of people use well and city water. Laziness has cause homebrewers to push the boundaries in many areas - no chill, warm fermented lagers etc... So I challenge you to get more creative.
Give me some rules to break, I'll do it after I get back from my annual training!

I like your idea of room temperature lager. That seems like a sin to end all sins in my mind, what else can I do?
 
All tree are no issue if you ask me, i also only use oxi and its seems to be enough!
 
Good evening,

I was talking to a friend about brewing. I realized that, without a bit of research, a lot of standards we as homebrewers do might not be available without a good bit of research. This friend and I talked about sanitation, brewing practices, etc., And I wanted to try and break some rules to make a brew and see how it turns out.
More rules to break:
-Don't take the keg apart between fillings, just put the next brew right in.
-Don't clean the carboy between brews either, siphon out the beer, dump the next brew in, let 'er rip.
-Don't worry about chilling the brew, just brew in the evening, put the lid on, set it out on the porch and go to bed.
-Don't fuss about mash PH, water additions (if you have decent water) oxygenating the wort, (aeration works fine) stir plates, starter flasks with foil on the top, yeast cell counts, mashing out, fly sparging and other actions part of brewing the "right way".
If the beer comes out good enough for you, that's all that really matters.
:bigmug:
 
Give me some rules to break, I'll do it after I get back from my annual training!

I like your idea of room temperature lager. That seems like a sin to end all sins in my mind, what else can I do?
Try a whole mash decoction. Rest for 60 minutes at 152F then raise the entire mash to boiling for 15 minutes. Raise the bag out of the boiling wort. Be careful but it might turn out?
 
Whose rules are you breaking? They must be your own rules. Or I'm just not understanding.

None of the things you mention in 1, 2 or 3 is a rule.

We will be excited to hear how it comes out though. Doing things differently is one of the ways we make different beer from the same stuff.
 
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Regarding Rule 1: in the words of tea snobs, “there’s a difference between boiling water & boiled water.” That said, temperatures above 161F will pasteurize in 15 seconds or less. That’s going to kill most things if not everything you have to worry about infecting beer & making off flavors. It’s why I’m baffled I still see people talk about putting their IC in their kettle with 10 minutes left to boil.

On Rule 2: I think squeezing the bag as been thoroughly debunked already.

On Rule 3: They made beer in medieval Europe. Surface waters were carrying a significant organic content, if you know what I mean.
 
I should say my thoughts are based on 10 gallons to the kegs. Besides the time investment, some of my beers are quite pricey to build, hence painful if lost. And as I have never lost a batch in almost 20 years of brewing I'm not inclined to add risk to my normal brewing.

Otoh, if I had the inclination I could see doing all kinds of "unconventional brewing" - in one gallon batches :)

Cheers!
Corollary: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Experimentation is fine, and I do it with small batches. But I add one variable at a time. And it's usually ingredients, not swapping out tried-and-true sanitation stuff.

Starsan is cheap. It works, I stick with it.
 
It’s why I’m baffled I still see people talk about putting their IC in their kettle with 10 minutes left to boil.
A few things that come to mind are:
  • Longer time let’s the heat travel up the pipes more to kill bugs not just under water.
  • 165 doesn’t kill everything (pressure canning holds at like 250 for many minutes.)
  • Throw chiller in with the 10min hops.
  • The chiller needs to heat up and if it’s not fully drained it takes longer to reach temp.

None of these are going to 100% infect your beer, but it shouldn’t be baffling why people do it to be safe. Adding it 10min out doesn’t add any time to your brew day so why not toss it in?
 
Rules, and reasons, can be good or bad. It's up to each of us to decide.

(Personal note: one of my most favorite college classes was in the anthropology department and was called Deviance. It was all about rules and rule breaking.)

Reasons to break "rules":
  • Being naughty is fun.
  • Don't $@&+*;?# tell  me how to brew.
  • Following rules is boring, expensive, difficult and/or time-consuming.
  • I'm special; rules are for other people.
  • Bragging rights: I can make beer in 5 minutes with one hand tied behind my back.
  • Maybe breaking a rule will have unanticipated benefits like better or more interesting beer.
Reasons to follow rules so-called best practices:
  • I want to make the best beer I can.
  • I don't like dumping beer or wasting money.
  • I trust that others' experiences can better inform my own practices.
  • If it's easy and cheap and might help, why not do it?
Cheers!
 
In a hobby like this, the consequence is zero.
Nonsense. Even if you discount your time (it is a hobby, after all), it costs money to brew beer, whether or not it comes out. And if a batch is ruined (e.g., infected), pouring $50 down the drain is a consequence in my book. Now, if it just doesn't come out quite the way I hoped, that's a different story--but a completely ruined batch isn't unheard-of.
 
Just my own rules. I had a bad week and had a few homebrews before making this post, Kind of embarrassed about making it, but I usually have super strict personal rules. It was really fun to do let a little loose. Making this post kind of made me realize I've got to chill and let a hobby be a hobby.
Whose rules are you breaking? They must be your own rules. Or I'm just not understanding.

None of the things you mention in 1, 2 or 3 is a rule.

We will be excited to hear how it comes out though. Doing things differently is one of the ways we make different beer from the same stuff.
 
1. The whole point of an IC is that it efficiently conducts heat. If you turn off the kettle and drop the IC in the wort, it becomes the same temperature as the wort really fast, certainly faster than I can chill from 212F to 165F. As for the thermal mass inside the IC, 20-feet of 1/4” copper tube holds about 7 ounces of water. For comparison, that’s about 1% of a 5 gallon brew.

2. As I said, 165F doesn’t kill everything but will kill most things that will infect beer. What your talking about is botulism.

Beer is not like canned fruits and veggies. If the ABV is > 6%, it will inhibit botulism. If the pH is < 5, it will inhibit botulism. And if both those conditions are not met, the residual oxygen content in wort after aeration is high enough to inhibit botulism.

A few things that come to mind are:
  • Longer time let’s the heat travel up the pipes more to kill bugs not just under water.
  • 165 doesn’t kill everything (pressure canning holds at like 250 for many minutes.)
  • Throw chiller in with the 10min hops.
  • The chiller needs to heat up and if it’s not fully drained it takes longer to reach temp.

None of these are going to 100% infect your beer, but it shouldn’t be baffling why people do it to be safe. Adding it 10min out doesn’t add any time to your brew day so why not toss it in?
 
1. The whole point of an IC is that it efficiently conducts heat. If you turn off the kettle and drop the IC in the wort, it becomes the same temperature as the wort really fast, certainly faster than I can chill from 212F to 165F. As for the thermal mass inside the IC, 20-feet of 1/4” copper tube holds about 7 ounces of water. For comparison, that’s about 1% of a 5 gallon brew.

2. As I said, 165F doesn’t kill everything but will kill most things that will infect beer. What your talking about is botulism.

Beer is not like canned fruits and veggies. If the ABV is > 6%, it will inhibit botulism. If the pH is < 5, it will inhibit botulism. And if both those conditions are not met, the residual oxygen content in wort after aeration is high enough to inhibit botulism.
My point was, does it hurt you do do those things? My IC is 50' of stainless 1/2 tubing btw. I do try to drain it as best I can.

Also my diagnosed ADD/ADHD makes some tasks with many sequential steps harder, routine helps. I always forget something, hopefully not important again like adding the spices to the boil or the 60min hops. Forgetting the whilrfloc isn't so bad.
 

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