I brewed an experimental recipe a few weeks ago...

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Curious if you have a preference for Williams Brewing malt extracts over Briess? Or is it too soon to tell, until you dial in your preferred brewing salts additions?
 
It's too soon to tell.

I'm mostly curious about the "style specific" malts (American Amber, American Red, American Rye, Nut Brown). 4 lb LME in 2.75 gal water is roughly 5% ABV and should typically yield 24 bottles.

For me, the pouches were easy to store in the fridge and easy to work with on brew day. Yes, the LME sinks immediately to the bottom of the kettle - but adding it at around 150F with the heat off prevented scorching and help ensure the wort wasn't stratified.

Currently, I am doing 30 minute boils. Using the "style specific" malts in "hop sampler (heat to boil)" recipes could lead to some short and shoddy quick and quaffable results.



aside: there are people out there who are quietly brewing enjoyable beers with style specific LME. My contribution here is "saying the quiet part out loud".
 
/3/ wort color came out 'as expected'. Wort color is indication of DME/LME freshness (BYO Big Book on Home Brewing, 1e). It may be that shipping wort in sealed pouches is another line of defense against LME going stale.
I haven't used LME in cans for many years and don't know if they have void (air) space. Your post makes me wonder if the cans have some air that you suspect may be causing oxidation. Do you think the pouches from Williams are better in that respect?
 
Your post makes me wonder if the cans have some air that you suspect may be causing oxidation.
With my (single) failed batch of LME in 2022, the stale LME may have been the combination of 1) time (it had been packaged about 10 months), 2) (perhaps) warmer storage, and 3) 'head space' in containers.

Do you think the pouches from Williams are better in that respect?
Tentatively: yes. I'm still a little uncertain about ordering LME in the summer.



MoreBeer, at their LME landing page (link), certainly sees pouches as a competitive advantage.
 
Classic American Brown Ale (LME)
3rd of a series of classic American Ales (pale, amber, brown) using style specific LME.
  • 50 min boil
  • 2.75 gal (end of boil), 2.5 gal into fermenter
  • ABV 6.2% (est); OG 60; FG 13 (est); IBU ~ 50 (est)
Ingredients
  • 4 lb Williams American Amber LME; ?? oz[ /1/ sugar
  • 7 oz g each of Magnum (12.3) & Columbus (16.2) & Fuggle (4.7) @ 45
  • 7 oz g Fuggle @ 30 & @ 15
  • 14 oz g Chinook @ 0
  • US-05
Process
  • heat 2.5 gal water to 140F, remove kettle from heat, add sugar & LME
  • check color (it was brown /2/, not black)
  • add water to get to 2.75 gal at end of boil
  • heat to boil while doing my traditional "watch the wort as it heats" technique
Comments



/1/ Let's "poke the bear (aka ChatGPT 3.5). Humans can "do the math". Is the 'pattern matching' / statistical word generation of ChatGPT 3.5 able to keep up? If you are a bot, please report back ;)
/2/ 3 for 3 with color coming out as expected when brewing LME.



edits: revised hop amounts to grams (rather than ounces)
 
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Those ounces of hops seem high. :oops:
I corrected the recipe.



Basement is warming up slowly, currently around 62F. I split the batch between a Little BMB & a 2 gal pail. Both will sit at basement temperature (no fermentation temperature control). My plan it is to measure inside wort/beer temperature once a day over the next couple of days.
 
The American Amber Ale is at about 75% AA this morning. It was a half package (11 g) in a 2.75 gal wort - which looks like a slight under pitch using Lallemands pitch rate calculator).

using Verdant yeast where the beer was at FG within a week

I occasionally revisit supplier product information pages and went to the Verdant production information page (link) yesterday. There's a link to an IPA Solutions PDF (direct link) at the bottom of the page.

1683985807000.png

  • 12* P is SG 48
  • 20* C is 68* F
  • 100 g per hL is 1 gram per liter
    • or roughly 10 g in a 2.75 gal wort
  • 72 hours is 3 days, 120 is 5, 168 is 7
I see more "fermentation trials" in my future ;)
 
I corrected the recipe.



Basement is warming up slowly, currently around 62F. I split the batch between a Little BMB & a 2 gal pail. Both will sit at basement temperature (no fermentation temperature control). My plan it is to measure inside wort/beer temperature once a day over the next couple of days.
Based on what happens when I ferment beer at 62 ambient, your temperature should rise to about 65 before falling back to 62. With the cool starting temp you don't get as much temperature rise as you would if your beer started fermenting at 70.
 
Am I the only one that thinks US-05 throws some odd fruity flavors when it's kept that cool (below 65F, I would say)?
It's commonly known that US-05 can leave peachy flavors when fermenting below 66F. In an IPA you may never find it, in a lighter hopped Pale Ale and other much lower hopped, more malt forward beers, such as an Amber, Blonde or Red, you might.
 
@Hoochin'Fool : a number of winters ago, I went looking for the "peach" off flavor that HomeBrewTalk talks about. I'm aware of a small number of 1st personal ancedotal reports - the best one described the flavor as 'bad hard candy imitation peach flavoring' - which I have experienced in hard candy 🤢).

That winter, when looking for "peach" from US-05, the basement went down to 55F. I didn't find those bad imitation peach flavors 😌.

Was it the recipe(s)? a change in how US-05 is packaged? 🤷‍♀️ Also, people have varying degrees of sensitivity to flavors. With many flavors, one can train to recognize those flavors. But some people will always be "blind" to certain flavors.

I haven't fermented with US-05 for a while (currently using mostly Verdant, New England, Nottingham, and BRY-97). But I recently acquired some WLP001 and Apex San Diego Dry (via Williams Brewing) so there's probably a split batch sampling event in my future.
 
A couple of updates on current batches:
  • Classic American Amber Ale (LME) [reply 74]: It's at estimated FG, so I intend to bottle this batch this weekend. I may do a "split bottle conditioning" trial : dose all the bottles with CBC-1; bottle condition a couple at ambient (61F at the moment) and the rest at 75F. When I bottle condition with CBC-1 @ 75F, the bottles have been carbonated in around 7 days. Conditioning this batch at different temperatures might offer some insights into the impact of bottle conditioning temperature.
  • Classic American Brown Ale (LME) [reply 85]: (this was a 2.5 gal batch split into two 1.25 gal batches for fermentation, fermenting with US-05 at basement ambient with no temperature control): wort/beer temperature over the last couple of days has been ambient ~(61F) + 1F. So this batch will likely ferment "low & slow" over the next couple of weeks.
 
Big Braggot Citra Hop Steep
Next to the last recipe in a series of experimental beers using DME in worts above about OG 65 /2/.

This is a variation on my "Citra Hop Steep" recipe that I occasionally brew.
  • 20 min "hop stand" starting at 175F, then "no chill"
  • 1.20 gal into the fermenter
  • ABV 8.4% (est); OG 73; FG 9 (est); IBU: 🤷‍♂️
Ingredients
  • 1.25 gal water; 0.25 g CaCl
  • 1 lb Briess Pale Ale DME; honey/sugar to get to OG 73
  • 28 g Magnum (12.3), 28 g cryo Citra (AA 25% ); 14 g Citra (12.5%)
  • 5 g Lallemand New England yeast /1/
Process
  • heat water to 175F; add ingredients; heat wort to 175F
  • hold wort above 170F for 20 minutes
  • chill (I used "no chill" to about 90F, then moved to fermentation chamber)
  • fast bottle condition (75F with CBC-1 & ascorbic acid)
Comments
  • braggot is made using honey (usually > 30%) and malts
  • hydrometer sample was delightfully citrusy.


/1/ 5 g is a big pitch; but I have little experience with this wort composition.

/2/ In the past, I haven't been able to make higher OG "all extract" beers that I enjoy. I have a good idea as to what the problem(s) might be. The recipes are attempts to avoid/evade those problems(s) without creating new ones.
 
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Hops still provide bittering at 175F, don't they?
They do. (More on estimation attempts below).

The hop additions were done "by feel" (or maybe just a SWAG) based on previous BBR "Hop Sampler" and "hop steep" batches:
  • With "Hop Sampler" (5%-ish ABV) batches, I get good results with 28 g of hops as long as the AAs are above 10. Cascasdes at 6 AA didn't work for me.
  • So I tried some combinations of "Hop Sampler" with Magnum for bittering. An additional 7 g of Magnum seemed to help.
  • With the "hop steep" batches (again in the 5%-ish ABV range), 28 g tended to have the flavors that I was looking for (but not enough bitterness).
  • Along the way, I learned the noticeable difference between steeping at 185F and at 175F.
So for this batch, with the ABV around ~ 8.5%.
  • I started with an 25 g of cryo Citra
  • added 14 g of Citra (some claim that regular Citra pairs well with cryo Citra)
  • then added some Magnum for some additional bitterness.
I haven't looked recenty as to how BrewSmith, Brewers Friend, or BrewFather handle the data entry for this. IIRC (and it was a couple of years ago), it was manually adding a utilization factor.

Using (abusing?) the data in the BeerSmith article, I get "60". Which, when thinking about how the hydrometer sample tasted, feels somewhere between possible and a little low.



The "Alchemy Overlord" site WordPress (link) and GitHub (link, includes calculators!) sites, with the SPMH model (link to free BYO article) deserves a mention here. Perhaps pair it with The New IPA for a deep dive into hop oils.



BeerSmith blog (link) offers this table for adjusting utilization:

If we calculate the hop utilization for an equivalent boil hop using the time, volume and gravity of the wort for the addition, we can then apply the “whirlpool utilization” to this number to estimate the overall hop utilization. Here’s a look at the whirlpool utilization with temperature assuming 100% would be an equivalent boil hop:

Boiling: 100 C (212 F) – Utilization is 100%
At 90 C (194 F) – Utilization is 49%
At 80 C (176 F) – Utilization is 23%
At 70 C (158 F) – Utilization is 10%
At 60 C (140 F) – Utilization is 4.3%
At 50 C (122 F) – Utilization is 1.75%

If I apply that adjustment to the Tinseth model, I get 300 IBUs (20 min boil) * 20% (my steep went from 175 to 170 over 20 minutes), or about 60 IBUs. For a 20 min boil, the estimated IBUs were around 300 - so I suspect there's an "overflow" in the ad-hoc model.

1684690868724.png

(X axis is temperature: 100 to 225; Y is utilization: 0 to 120)
 
... closing comments for a couple of recent recipes.

Big Braggot Citra Hop Steep
Fermentation finished in about 5 days. Bottled on day 7 using fast bottle conditioning technique. Test bottle (after 3 days bottle conditioning) was ready (and showing signs of oxidation). Probably will order PET bottles (zero head space, no worries about bottles cracking, etc) for my next small batch hazy.

Classic American Brown Ale (LME)
After about a week, bumped fermentation temperature to 67F so I could package this batch this weekend. Today's hydrometer sample was "as expected" (no signs of peachy flavors).
 
... final follow up on the "Classic ... Ale (LME)" series

Classic American Brown Ale (LME)
Bottled this batch a couple of days ago using sugar, CBC-1, & ascorbic acid; using the (highly experimental) "fast bottle conditioning" process (75F water bath for 5-7 days) that I've mentioned on occasion. This process seems to be working well for bottles that are intended to be consumed fresh. However, given what I mentioned in #101 and (this link), I don't see it as valid approach for bottling hazies.



Over the next six to nine months, my goal is to "dial in" a number of BIAB recipes (e.g. SNPA, 2H, ...). Along the way, I may try to brew a DME-based double IPA that I enjoy.

:mug:
 
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@BrewnWKopperKat A recent batch I made turned out to have a few mild gushers, and I'm leaning towards just adding sugar to each bottle for next time. Am I correct in thinking it looks like 2.3 grams table sugar (per 12 oz bottle, beer at 70F, aiming for 2.5 atmospheres CO2) is the proper dose?
 
@BrewnWKopperKat A recent batch I made turned out to have a few mild gushers, and I'm leaning towards just adding sugar to each bottle for next time. Am I correct in thinking it looks like 2.3 grams table sugar (per 12 oz bottle, beer at 70F, aiming for 2.5 atmospheres CO2) is the proper dose?
Your few gushers suggest that your priming sugar didn't get mixed well. Use a big spoon and stir the beer and priming solution. Do it slowly so as to not add extra oxygen.
 
Am I correct in thinking it looks like 2.3 grams table sugar (per 12 oz bottle, beer at 70F, aiming for 2.5 atmospheres CO2) is the proper dose?
That looks reasonable.

When I switched from carbonation drops to sugar (wanted more precise control over carbonation level), I worked with a priming calculator (adjusting batch size to match the contents of the bottle (may not be 12oz)) and ended up in the 2.3 g per bottle range for that level of carbonation.
 
@BrewnWKopperKat A recent batch I made turned out to have a few mild gushers, and I'm leaning towards just adding sugar to each bottle for next time. Am I correct in thinking it looks like 2.3 grams table sugar (per 12 oz bottle, beer at 70F, aiming for 2.5 atmospheres CO2) is the proper dose?

Looks good. Here is a simple table that I put together for bottle priming. It is based on the 1 gallon values from the Northern Brewer calculator and then scaled to other bottle sizes. There are small variances in the sugar amounts from different calculators, but the Northern Brewer values have worked well enough for me.

1685547927357.png
 
Is that atmospheres CO2 across the top? Must be... [edit: not quite, see next post below this!]

I went ahead and bottled an amber ale (all grain) Wed nite, dosing the bottles individually with table sugar using a funnel and a slightly rounded half-teaspoon of sugar. Between sugar crystals sticking to the spoon and inside the funnel, I have LESS confidence than I did in adding sugar solution to the bottling bucket. 😯
 
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Is that atmospheres CO2 across the top? Must be...

Volumes of CO2

"The amount of carbon dioxide dissolved into a beer is measured in units called “volumes of CO2.” This gets a little technical, but a “volume” is the space that the CO2 would take up at a standard temperature (32° F) and pressure (one atmosphere) if removed from the beer. In other words, if one gallon of beer contained two volumes of CO2, the CO2 by itself would occupy twice the space the beer takes up, or two gallons."

https://www.fourpeaks.com/beer-fact...t of carbon dioxide,if removed from the beer.
 
sugar crystals sticking to the spoon and inside the funnel
Assuming one is willing to dose individual bottles (... hey where did everyone go? :D) in smaller batches, another option is a small scale (0.01 g accuracy) and mini-cupcake liners. The liners have a pleasing consistent weight, so when one "tares" heavier, replace it. I measure/dose/cap in groups of three or four.
 
"fast bottle conditioning" process (75F water bath for 5-7 days)

Apparently, one can go faster. Elsewhere on the interwebs (link)
... but you could incubate the bottles warmer and speed the process up. [poster] tried Voss bottles at 25C and it took 4 days (took Voss the normal three weeks at 19C); [someone else] held some at 30 or 37 once upon a time, and [apparently the bottles] finished overnight.
 
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I went ahead and bottled an amber ale (all grain) Wed nite, dosing the bottles individually with table sugar using a funnel and a slightly rounded half-teaspoon of sugar. Between sugar crystals sticking to the spoon and inside the funnel, I have LESS confidence than I did in adding sugar solution to the bottling bucket.
Make a simple syrup and dose the bottles with a syringe.
 
I made this back in February, and it's turned out very nice (still got a seriously spicy hop burn, hoping that fades in a few more months)...

Water: half RO, half TAP, 3.3 gal into fermenter
3 lb Briess Golden Lite DME
3 lb Briess Amber DME
8 oz chocolate 350L
8 oz Fawcett Dark Roast Crystal 85L
8 oz Fawcett Pale Chocolate 205L
6 oz caramel 120L
6 oz Dark roasted barley 550L

Magnum @60 for 50 IBU
Kent Goldings @30 for 8 IBU
Magnum @30 for 10 IBU

S-04 held around 62F - 64F for 4 or 5 weeks then bottled with CBC-1 and 2 oz 94 proof bourbon, per gallon (so like 6.25 oz)

Was planning for 3.0 gal into fermenter, but miscalculated, so OG was not 1.097
Ended up with:
OG: 1.088
FG: 1.021
ABV: 8.8% (I forget how much the bourbon added, I think it was only like 3/4 of a percentage point)
IBU: 68

Taste: A lot of chocolate flavor, decent but not overpowering roast (I'd call it about perfectly what I was hoping to get), a little too much spicy hops, and just a hint of bourbon.

At 4.5 months, this beer tastes fantastic! Sadly only have 10 bottles left. Going to re-brew this (mini-mash) soon to have for winter...
 
Some months ago I brewed a couple of batches that became experiments. I won't report the recipes here, because that's not what this is about, and they were posted on the "I Brewed a favorite recipe today" thread.

Batch #300 was brewed 10/15/22, transferred to secondary 10/22/22, and bottled 10/29/23. This is normal. I still have half the batch. This is not normal. The experiment is shelf life with no particular attention to oxygen exposure. This beer is over 7 months in the bottle. It has held up just fine.
300s.png

#300 right bottle in left picture in November and 6/15/23 in right picture.

300 kit pour.png
300 win glass.png

Pictures of #300 when poured and in glass on 6/16/23.

Batch #301 was brewed 11/7/22, never transferred to a glass carboy secondary, and remained in the plastic bucket primary until bottling on 3/17/23. This did not go so well. It is a beautiful dark red as it is supposed to be, but it lacks taste and carbonation. It is not totally flat and does not taste bad; it is just very sub par. Conclusion: don't do this.
301 btl 6:15:23.png
301 win 4:16.png
 
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Below is an image of that extract Pale Ale I posted about a few entries up. It seems to look a bit more clear in person, but I expect it will clear up a bit more over the next week or two. It has been in the keg for 10 days.
Following up on the extract pale ale I brewed a few months ago...overall I am very happy with the malt bill, but not as hoppy with my hop selection.

I am off work today. When I opened my fridge to look for something to eat for lunch, I saw a bottle of my Pale Ale and a few bottles of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I figured a side by side was in order. Below is a picture of the two beers. There is a bit of condensation on the glasses, but both very clear. The color is close, with SNPA having a bit darker golden color. Mine might have just a touch more body, but SNPA is just a touch sweeter (it could be that the bitterness of mine masks some sweetness, the SNPA is also several months older than mine).

I would use this grain bill for a Pale Ale again without any changes!

Fermentables for 2.5 gallon batch:
  • 4 oz Crystal 40L - Steeped
  • 3 lb Briess Pilsen Light
  • 5 oz Corn Sugar
My theory is that steeping a little Crystal malt gives some grainy character that is often missing with 100% extract beers, and a little sugar will help to lessen the body, sweetness and color that is typical of extract. The 5 oz amount of corn sugar is just because it was a left over pack of priming sugar from a kit. I would normally use table sugar, and a little less or a little more would be fine.

My bottle may have had a little higher carbonation, but it also a very rocky head that has left some of the most persistent lacing that I have ever experienced, where the SNPA has left zero lacing. As far as the hops go, I used the last bits of some Cascade and Columbus hop bags. I am not sure if it is the combo or the older hops, but my beer has an IPA level of bitterness that is a bit harsh, with a lingering harsh bitter character.

20230619_120945.jpg
 
I am not sure if it is the combo or the older hops, but my beer has an IPA level of bitterness that is a bit harsh, with a lingering harsh bitter character.
That's interesting. I use pretty old hops sometimes (vacuum sealed and kept in the freezer), and it never seems to affect the bitterness as far as I can tell. I haven't used that hop combination, but I wouldn't expect it to result in excessive or harsh bitterness. I don't know what to make of it. It sounds like you still have a good, drinkable beer.
 
That's interesting. I use pretty old hops sometimes (vacuum sealed and kept in the freezer), and it never seems to affect the bitterness as far as I can tell. I haven't used that hop combination, but I wouldn't expect it to result in excessive or harsh bitterness. I don't know what to make of it. It sounds like you still have a good, drinkable beer.
I HAD a good drinkable beer! That was my last bottle. Actually, it was a 2.5 gal batch, and I lost a good gallon due to a leaking disconnect. :( This was the first time I recall dry hopping with Columbus. It could be that if I used just a touch less bittering hops, it would have been fine. I have read that as hops age, the bitter ness from alpha acids reduces and the bitterness from beta acids increase. But I have also used hops that were 1-2 years old with excellent results.

In any case, I was looking for a simplified extract recipe that I could use for making single hop pale ales, or maybe brewing a pale ale when I am short on time for a brew day. I think I am close on that goal.
 
This beer [#300] is over 7 months in the bottle. It has held up just fine.

It [#301] is a beautiful dark red as it is supposed to be

While neither of these beers are "hop forward", I'm impressed that there is no darkening of color.

Are you willing to outline what your bottling process is? My guess is that I'm doing some thing (or things) differently (see also this) that is causing longer term storage problems.
 
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