I brewed an experimental recipe a few weeks ago...

[Hoochin'Fool]

...follow-up EC-1118 / CBC-1 to bottle condition a pale ale. I didn't notice flavor or performance differences after 7 days bottle conditioning...

Being cheap pays off!
Thanks for the follow-up report!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

let's start the new year by making a bunch of changes to a recipe & see where it goes.

Citra Blend Hop Steep
3 gal (end of boil), OG 66 FG 11 (est)
3# Muntons Amber DME; 1# Brewers Crystals; 0.5# Sugar
1 oz Citra (25 AA); 1 oz Centennial (11 AA); 20 min @ 185*
1 pkg Diamond @ 58* (room temperature)
A "healthy dose" of process changes related to oxygen (see "The Brew Files" #160).
Ferment in two Little BMBs.

Today, hydrometer sample is at FG; raised beer temperature to 70F for a couple of days.

• With a good FG measuring process, hydrometer samples never go to waste (they go to waist).
• The sample tastes like it was steeped at 185* (not 175*) and may be better with some flavor salt adjustments. I'll probably do that 'in the glass' for this batch, then revise the recipe based on what I taste.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Just putting this idea (link) ( from @Hoochin'Fool ) here so I can find it in the near future.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Just putting this idea (link) here so I can find it in the near future.

Wiped most of the goop/krausen from inside the test tube, and switched to a higher resolution (0.990 to 1.070) hydrometer. It's already slowed down to a crawl, but I'm hoping it'll go down at least another 10 points, 15 would be better.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Hoochin'Fool : I will give this a try maybe as early as the weekend (assuming the order arrives). Hydrometer samples were a 'weak spot' for a set of changes I'm making to bottle better beer. I may start posting detailed 'experimental' extract recipes late spring / early summer - as I want to brew a number of batches to make sure there's a trend.

eta: this approach also looks like an interesting way to collect SG / Brix for 'dialing in' a refractometer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Ordered on early Monday morning, on my door step Tuesday afternoon; confirmed calibrated (1.000 in water); will likely refresh myself on techniques for calibrating refractometers. As I mentioned above, I may be back to post recipes/processes in late spring / early summer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

coming soon? Brut IPA re-imagined

Sachet sized packages for LD-20, DA-16, DW-17, & HA-18 have been reported on the west coast.

Currently $12 for a 5 gal pitch (and it's "one and done" because "enzymes").

 

[mac_1103]

Currently $12 for a 5 gal pitch (and it's "one and done" because "enzymes").

Which is about what I paid for 5 packs of the enzyme alone. But Midwest and Northern Brewer also have them for those who want the convenience and aren't on the west coast.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

want the convenience

and we're over in one of "convenience" related forums (e.g. extract brewing).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Hoochin'Fool : as I mentioned eariler, I'm "giving this a try" ..

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

This BCBS clone* is going slooooow, 3 points in 8 days, but I think it's probably just about finished. OG was 1.110, FG seems like it's going to stop at 1.035

* from Brewing Goose Island's Bourbon County Stout Clone | Secret Level Brewing

I replaced about 60% of the base malt with golden-lite-DME. Not ambitious enough to figure out how to change that recipe to no-mash, however, because of the munich. My plan is to bottle this soon (with bourbon @ 2oz per gallon of beer, and EC-1118 yeast), then hide it away until November!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

A followup to the batch I mentioned in #170.

The color in the sample glass that I take during bottling ended up around SRM 4 (rather than the muddy amber color during active fermentation).

I'll continue to try the "fermenting hydrometer" sample over the next couple of batches.

With this bottling session, I used EC-1118 (need to finish off the open package) and will bottle condition at 75F for the first week. Typically, I bottle condition with CBC-1 and ascorbic acid. With this batch, I packaged four bottles each with the following combinations:

• sugar only
• sugar + EC-1118 (no ascorbic acid)
• sugar + ascorbic acid (no EC-1118)

It will take a couple of months to get the initial results. I'll likely repeat the experiment with a more "hop friendly" strain of yeast as well.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Recipe/process for the batch in #170/#172:

IPA (Citra Hop Steep)

Ingredients

• 3 gal (end of boil), 2.75 gal into fermenter
• 3# Muntons Extra Light DME; 1# sugar
• 0.3g Brewtan-B
• 1.5g Yeast nutrient
• 1 oz Cryo Citra (25 AA); 2 oz Citra (12.5 AA) @ 175F for 20 min
• 1 sachet Diamond Lager at ~ 58F

Brew day process

• YOS (2 g / gal at 90F for 30 min) /1/
• heat to 180F, add ingredients; 'mash cap'; hold for 20 minutes
  • ingredients dropped wort temp to 167F; accept and adjust for next recipe

Bottling process:

• Condition at 75F for around a week;
• then at room temperature (58F in winter) for a week

For this bottling experiment, I dosed individual bottles as follows:

• most bottles: sugar + EC-1118 + ascorbic acid
• 4 bottles: just sugar
• 4 bottles: just ascorbic acid
• 4 bottles: just EC-1118

Early sampling (roughly 6 days after bottling):

• As anticipated, the bottles with EC-1118 were carbonated in around 3 days /2/
• The bottles without EC-1118 required a couple of additional days.
• The "just sugar" bottles appear to be "going dark" quickly
  • Is bottle conditioning with Diamond Lager at 75F a factor?
• At the moment, the other bottles are roughly the same

---

/1/ There is also an overnight YOS option for those who want a shorter brew day session

/2/ Most styles will be better with additional conditioning

eta: updated ingredient list

 

[ncbrewer]

I tried a Schwarzbier using extract only, no steeping grains - very simple.
5 gallons to the fermenter (nothing left in the kettle)
OG: 1.0485
6.6 lbs Briess Traditional Dark LME (2 cans)
Mt. Hood hops - to get 26.5 IBU (BU:GU = 0.55)
Fermentis S-189 yeast
Used CaCl and lactic acid - dependent on your water chemistry

Boiled 2.5 gallons for 40 minutes with all the hops and half the LME
Added remaining LME and stirred
Cooled
Poured into fermenter from shoulder high to get foam on top
Added top-off water to get 5 gallons
Stirred well
Dry pitched the yeast at 65F
Dipped and poured wort back to get all the yeast into the wort - no yeast left on top of the foam
Fermented at 67F for 3 days
Raised temperature to 74F for remaining time in the fermenter

I like it a lot and plan to brew it again. (Although possibly with a different process. I'm planning to get back into all-grain brewing in a couple of months.)

Edit: Yes, this is another warm fermented lager.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Used CaCl and lactic acid - dependent on your water chemistry

Acid additions when brewing with DME/LME are rare (but I've seen them before).

What does the lactic acid addition contribute towards a better result?

 

[ncbrewer]

Acid additions when brewing with DME/LME are rare (but I've seen them before).

What does the lactic acid addition contribute towards a better result?

I got the concept from Water Knowledge. It was originally on https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge, but I can't get the link to work now. Martin Brungard wrote "Water used for beers made with Malt Extract should have alkalinity under 50 ppm as CaCO3." I asked him in a HBT thread whether anything between zero and 50 is good, and he answered "Closer to zero, if you're brewing with extract."

In the Northern Brewer forum (http://forum.northernbrewer.com/t/beer-harsh-bitterness/1189/5) he wrote "Elevated alkalinity can raise the pH of the kettle wort and that can affect the extraction of tannins and silicates from any steeping grains and it makes the hop bitterness ‘rough’."

I haven't done a side by side comparison to confirm, but I'm happy with it. Now I use lactic acid in every batch.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@ncbrewer : https://www.brunwater.com/water-knowledge is the link at the new(er) Bru'nWater site.

 

[ncbrewer]

@ncbrewer : https://www.brunwater.com/water-knowledge is the link at the new(er) Bru'nWater site.

Thanks - I'll update my file. It has some of the info that I mentioned. Under Alkalinity Adjustment: "Water used for beers made with Malt Extract should have alkalinity under 50 ppm as CaCO3."

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I had time for a shorter brew day over the weekend, so ...

Classic Red IPA

• 2.5 gal (end of boil); OG 63 FG 13 IBU 63; SRM 15?
• Malts: 3# Muntons Amber DME; 8 oz sugar; 4 oz Simpsons DRC; 2 oz Chocolate (200L)
• Hops: 1 oz Chinook (13.7 AA) @ 30; 1 oz Centennial (10.7 AA) @ 0
• helpers: Irish Moss & Yeast Nutrient @ 5
• Yeast: Apex San Diego
• Salts: 2.0 g CaS04, 0.5 g CaCl; 0.25 g NaCl (at end of YOS)
• Oxygen Management: YOS (5 g each at 90F for 30 min) & Brewtan-B (0.3 g)

Process

• in 2.5 gal water: heat to 90F; YOS; add salts & BrewTan-B; heat to 180F
• in 0.25 gal water: Cold steep DRC & light chocolate malt while heating water to 180F
• at 180F: Add sugar/DME; sample color (SRM 8-ish?); add cold steep; sample color (SRM 15?)
• 35 min boil
• ferment @ ~ 67F

When adding the DME (@ 180F), I tried to add it slowly and uniformly across the top of the kettle. The end result was that the DME disolved before reaching the bottom of the kettle. I did give the wort a gentle stir & used my mash paddle to confirm that there was nothing stuck on the bottom of the kettle. I did not encounter clumping. Clean-up confirmed that there was no scorching. I use an 1800W inducdtion cooktop.

Observations
For future SRM estimates at this OG, I may use roughly "8 L" for Muntons Amber DME (vs "16 L" for Briess Amber DME). If the goal is "amber ale" (vs "brown ale"), there's plenty of "SRM" space for adding malt flavors.

Caution(s)
I have different "salts" additions for Briess DME and for Muntons DME. If you brew with Briess Amber DME, the above "salts" additions may result in a mineralized beer.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

What does YOS mean?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What does YOS mean?

Yeast Oxygen Scavenging.

background: There are a couple of simple techniques for minimizing HSA (hot side aeration). Yeast Oxygen Scavenging (YOS) is one of them. In summary, there are two approaches; both use 2g bread yeast and 2 g sugar per gallon of water. 1st approach is overnight at room temperature. 2nd approach is heat the water to 90F, add the yeast/sugar, and hold for 30 minutes.

Does it matter with DME? I'll know more in 9 to 12 months of brewing.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

don't overlook "Experimental Homebrewing" going online (below)

Recipe/process for the batch in #170/#172

I'm closing out the bottling experiments, perhaps a little early.

I was curious about the variation in the anecdotal stories that have been reported when using individual techniques. Without being able to measure the quality of the wort during the process, it's hard to know if (or where) the wort was damaged.

So rather than tring the many combinations of one or two ingredients/techniques, I added the easy techniques I could find: YOS, Brewtan-B, mash cap (especially while heating to boil), gentle stirring & transfers, fast bottle carbonation with fresh yeast and ascorbic acid, cold storage of the bottles).

End result: better beer. And with the first couple of batches, more consistent beer.

Can the list be simplified?

Since most of the techniques take little (or no) additional time, my desire to experiment more is waning rapidly.

---

Looks like the book Experimental Homebrewing is going online over the next year (with annotations).

Authors’ Note: Way back in the Spring of 2013, we were approached to write a book titled Experimental Homebrewing that would “Out Randy” Randy Mosher and his wonderfully crazy Radical Brewing. Drew teamed up with Denny to write this book and together we quickly decided that it was a practical impossibility to achieve that goal. Instead, we pivoted to focus on the word “Experimental” and what it means. Drew was the outlandish one; Denny, the practical digger of how things worked in his brewery and for his tastes. It took us over a year and three editors to pull this book together. (Many thanks to Thom O’Hearn for dragging us across the finish line!)

Experimental Homebrewing is now approaching a decade old and is out of print, we’ve decided to bring the book online over the course of the year. Please note: you can still find used or never sold copies of the book (We’re still partial to having a physical book in hand for practical purposes!)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For those who take hydrometer samples and have the ability to force carbonate, check out episode 194 of "Experimental Brewing" starting at about 35:00.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Chinook/Citra Hop Steep (175F) 3.0 gal (end of boil) OG 59; FG 11 3# Muntons Extra Light DME; 1# sugar 28g cryo Citra (25 AA); 112g Citra (12.5 AA) 56g Chinook (13.7 AA) 2g CaCl; 1 g CaS04; 0.3g NaCl; 0.3g BewTan-B 1/2 sachet WLP066 dry YOS (2g/gal bread yeast/sugar; 30 min @ 90F) 'mash cap' add minerals after YOS, heat to 185F add ingredients (wort temp dropped to 175F) hold for 30 minutes (wort temp ends at 170F) chill rapidly ferment at ~ 67F when FG is stable bottle condition at 75F for about a week, then chill/enjoy I dosed individual bottles with 2.4 g sugar 'smidgem' (measuring spoon) CBC-1 'dash' (measuring spoon) ascorbic acid

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

This is mostly an 'experience report' for those who are taking a single hydrometer sample early in the fermentation process (link). I've used it successfully in a number of recent batches, but ...

Bitter (inspired by a Brewing Classic Styles recipe)

• OG 46; FG 12; IBU 33; SRM 11; ABV 4.6
• 35 min boil; ~ 2.75 gal (end of boil); 24 pack (after packaging)

Ingredients

• 3# Muntons Light DME /1/
• 4 oz English Light Crystal; 2 oz English Medium Crystal; 4 oz Simpson DRC
• 28 g Golding (5.7AA) @ 30, 14 g Golding @ 15, 14 g Golding @ 0
• 1/2 sachet Lallemand Verdant @ 67F
• 1 g CaSo4; 1 g MgS04; 1 g NaCl; 0.3 g BrewTan-B /1/

Process

• Heat 3.0 gal water to 90°F
• YOS (2 g / gal sugar & bread yeast at 90°F for 30 min) /2/
• Remove 2 qt water to cold steep grains while heating kettle water to 180°F
• in kettle, add minerals and Brewtan-B, heat to 180°
• when kettle water is around 180°, gently add steeped-grain wort and DME /3/
• bring to boil. boil for 35 min with first hop addition @ 30

Notes

• took hydrometer sample one day after pitching yeast (link)
• measured SG a number of times from the hydrometer tube
• FG seemed to have stalled at SG 16 after 7 days
• took an fresh hydrometer sample on day 10 - it was at SG 12

Observation

• be cautious about using this technique (link) as a "poor persons" Tilt.
• next time I may use two hydrometer sample tubes

Footnotes

1. With Briess DME, I use a very different set of flavor salt additions.
2. YOS also has an 'overnight' option.
3. for me, Muntons DME mostly disolves before reaching the bottom of the kettle. With a gentle stir and a 'feel' across the bottom of the kettle using a mash paddle, I can confirm that nothing is stuck on the bottom

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Interesting observation, @BrewnWKopperKat! I'm trying to think of a reason for the difference, but all I've got is "maybe the bigger mass in the fermenter generated enough heat to keep going, and the test-tube did not"...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

a reason for the difference,

With my previous batches, I took one or two measurements at the end of the fermentation - and the hydrometer sample matched the sample from the fermenter.

With this latest batch, I took a number of samples during fermentation (aka "poor persons" Tilt). It's possible that my approach for cleaning the side of the hydrometer removed enough yeast to cause fermentation to finish early. So maybe (no promises) next time, I'll use two hydrometer sample tubes to measure SG both early and late.

Overall, I feel the technique works - take a sample early and wait for fermentation to finish before taking the first measurement. Additional measurements during active fermentation may cause problems.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Another 'experience report' for those who are taking a single hydrometer sample early in the fermentation process (link).

For this batch (brewed on the 17th, I used one the "Chico" dry strains) I took the hydrometer sample about 4 hours after pitching the yeast. In the past, I've waited roughly a day to see active fermentation before taking a sample.

For whatever reason(s), the hydrometer sample seems to be about a day behind the main fermentation. Earlier today, the foam dropped in the fermenter, but the hydrometer sample is still fermenting. I'll wait for the hydrometer sample to stop fermenting (probably tomorrow) before taking the 1st FG measurement.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Back in March, I brewed a

Bitter (inspired by a Brewing Classic Styles recipe)

which was also a "split" bottle conditioning 'experiment': some bottles conditioned using CBC-1 and some used EC-1118. This evening, I sampled a pair (not blind) side-by-side.

FWIW, with the "Bitter" recipe, I had a preference for the bottle that used CBC-1.

My guess is that with an IPA-ish recipe, I would not have noticed a difference.

aside: I recently got a good deal on 5 sachets of 'past best by date' CBC-1 that ended up being well within the 'best by date'. Since I'm getting good results with CBC-1 at a price I'm willing to pay, I'm likely to 'pause' on any additional CBC-1 vs EC-1118 'experiments'. I'm still a "fan" of adding some type of bottle conditioning yeast - so maybe there's some 'side-by-side' bottling experiments using CBC-1 vs the fermentation strain (e.g. US-05, Nottingham, ...).

 

[CascadesBrewer]

which was also a "split" bottle conditioning 'experiment': some bottles conditioned using CBC-1 and some used EC-1118. This evening, I sampled a pair (not blind) side-by-side.

How would you describe the difference?

I have been a bit curious about using EC-1118. I like that it comes in 5g packs and only costs $1.60 at my local shop (likely $1 online). That way, I would be fine using a partial pack and tossing the rest. I have been using CBC-1 anytime I bottle a higher ABV beer, which tends to be just a few times a year. I have been having good luck just using a partial pack of CBC-1, sealing it back up with a clip, and using up the pack over 1-2 years.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

How would you describe the difference?

Using "harsh" on a scale from 0 to 5, the bottle with CBC-1 was zero, with EC-1118 was one. So not a lot of difference. Both bottles had the spice / herbal flavors typical of Golding hops.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Hoochin'Fool : as I was cleaning the bottom my hydrometer sample tube (see #170 & 171 above), late this afternoon, I started to wonder if it would work to save that amount of yeast and re-pitch it in an upcoming batch. I didn't save the yeast (this time). Thoughts?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

@Hoochin'Fool : as I was cleaning the bottom my hydrometer sample tube (see #170 & 171 above), late this afternoon, I started to wonder if it would work to save that amount of yeast and re-pitch it in an upcoming batch. I didn't save the yeast (this time). Thoughts?

I've re-used the hydrometer yeast/sludge (from an S-04, 1.056 amber ale) once to ferment a gallon of apple cider, about 7 weeks ago, I think. Turned out fine. Haven't tried it again yet, but I've been fermenting some over-the-top imperial stouts lately, so I figured that yeast might be too abused or worn out, to reuse.

But I've got a hydro yeast/sludge sample from this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/hazy-cheapskate-miraculix-forbidden-ale.710855/ beer that I was just thinking about doing something with. It's still pretty cloudy tho, so probably another week or two.

EDITED to add:

What I did to re-use the sample: dumped out the beer. The sludge didn't want to come out, so I poured some apple juice into the tube, shook the hell out of it, and poured it all into the fermenter.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Pale Ale (split fermentation)

• OG 56; FG 10 - 12; IBU 50; SRM 7-sh; ABV 5.8
• 25 min boil; ~ 2.75 gal (end of boil); roughly two 12 packs

Ingredients:

• 2# Pale Ale DME; 1# Wheat DME; 0.5# sugar
• 21g Magnum (16.5) @ 20; 28g Cascase @ 5
• split fermentation: US-05; BRY-97; sprinkled on top
• bread yeast (YOS), BrewTan-B, Irish Moss, beer yeast nutrient

Process:

• YOS: 2g / gal; 20 min; room temp (70F) /1/
• 0.1g / gal Brewtan-B; heat to around 180F
• turn off heat; add sugar, then DME; bring to boil
• add hops (@20, @5); rehydrated Irish Moss @10 /2/
• pitch yeast @ 65F, add yeast nutrient

I normally do not have wheat DME on hand, but needed about 1.5# of wheat DME for a Brown Ale I'm converting from "all-grain". This recipe helps me use up the rest of the DME promptly.

After roughly 2 weeks fermenting at around 65F, BRY-97 appears to be done & US-05 is "almost" there.

----------

/1/ bringing the water to a boil, then adding the DME with heat off, is an alternative.
/2/ I want to do this a couple more times before (maybe) talking about it.

 

[ncbrewer]

That's an interesting recipe. I hope you'll post how it comes out.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I hope you'll post how it comes out.

It will probably be a 4 to 5 weeks before sampling 1st bottles.

The BRY-97 batch is done; the US-05 batch is almost done.

I'm using the approach in #170/#171 to take multiple FG reading. (I may re-pitch the yeast at the bottom of the tube into a couple of 0.75 gal "hop sampler"-ish batches).

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

@BrewnWKopperKat I'm intrigued by the idea of "flash" brewing in that other thread, figured I'd bounce this off you:

Bell's own two hearted clone recipe's grist is: 74% 2-row, 22% pale, 4% caramel 40

If sparkling amber dme is 85% 2-row, 5% munich, 10% caramel 60, would a 60/40 split between golden lite and sparkling amber probably be pretty danged close in flavor? I think so...


...Working out the math...

3 lbs Golden Light DME	3 lbs 2-row
2 lbs Sparkling Amber DME	1.7 lbs 2-row	94% 2-row (3 lbs + 1.7 lbs) / 5 lbs
	0.1 lbs munich	2% munich
	0.2 lbs cara60	4% cara60

That much would make a 3.5 gallon batch with a 1.064 OG, with possibly no need to boil anything, if one also purchased hop extract. Not sure how to make Brewer's Friend recipe editor work with hop extracts tho. Probably just have figure that amount manually...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

probably be pretty danged close in flavor? I think so...

I'll agree it's a valid option.

Bell's own two hearted clone recipe's grist is: 74% 2-row, 22% pale, 4% caramel 40

When I though briefly about blending DMEs to make this wort, I ended up at 75% "golden light" DME / 25% "pale ale" DME.

If my custom spreadsheet is correct, it looks like a 40%/20%/40% (golden light / pale ale / amber) blend ends up really close to 74%/22%/4%.

Finding higher quality 'home brewer' centennial hop will be the next consideration.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

If my custom spreadsheet is correct, it looks like a 40%/20%/40% (golden light / pale ale / amber) blend ends up really close to 74%/22%/4%.

Finding higher quality 'home brewer' centennial hop will be the next consideration.

Watching that morebeer flash brewing video, it sure looks like it's identical to their Artisan Hops Hop Shot, right down to the syringe. But the Googles says:

I wish I felt more confident making hop-teas (where you boil say an ounce of hops in a quart of water to make some ridiculously bitter liquid), and add it to wort.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

it sure looks like it's identical to their Artisan Hops Hop Shot, right down to the syringe.

At the moment, I'm willing to trust that MoreBeer is right in both cases:

• their web indicates that shows that Artisan Hops® Hop Shot products need to be added to boiling water. It also should be refrigerated between uses
• the Flash Brewing™ HopBite™ product can be added in the fermenter.

I've use the Hot Shot product once (over five years ago) and it did not flow as smoothly (even warm) as the HopBite™ product.

At the moment, I'm "resolving the conflict" by assuming two different products.

---

Over the in the Flash Brewing™ FAQ, they mention

So, over a five-year journey, we sourced, produced, and tested the ingredients that would allow us to replicate Fresh Wort kits without the water.

There are varying opinions on what they sourced and what the produced.

And while that statement is written like marketing text, I'm also willing to take it at "face value": they did source (and brand) some ingredients and they did develop/produce (and brand) some ingredients.

I'll probably buy a kit over the next year or so. The likely result is a good beer with a recipe that was 'inspired' by a classic craft beer.