I’m tired of making grassy gross IPA’s.

[Gravelscratcher]

Alright, this is problem I’ve been experiencing with most of my IPA’s...for a long time.

I get a grassy/veggie bitter flavor, with none of the grapefruit, pine, tropical...(the good stuff) from my hops (irrespective of the recipe)...and it doesn’t get better w/ time. All the typical off flavor descriptions (from brewing mistakes) don’t seem to fit what I’m experiencing.

I can brew a stout, and it’s perfect. I can brew a NEiPA with Cryo Hops, and it’s great. I can brew cream ales and steam beers...you get the point.
The minute I try and make an IPA or a Hoppy Pale, with standard pellet hops, I get this grassy vegetable bitter thing.
For the life of me, I can’t figure it out.

I am using a chest freezer and an ink-bird to control my temperature. I’m careful w/ hot side and cold side oxygen. I quit using tap water, and went to buying purified drinking water. I’m ultra clean and sanitized. My mash temp’s are in the 150’s. I bought a new fermenter...and so on.
What sucks is, I love IPA’s and NEIPA’s. I want to make IPA’s, and enjoy some of my favorite beers and experiment with interesting recipe ideas, but all I get is grassy, gross, bitter. They literally all taste the same...doesn’t matter what I do.

I can’t figure it out, and I’m about to only brew w/ Cryo-Hops, because that’s the only real success I’ve had w/ brewing IPAs (the NEIPA I made). It was amazing by the way.

The only thing I haven’t tried, is getting scientific w/ my water and PH levels. But I don’t think that’s the issue here.

Anyway, this is pretty much my last resort. It’s worth my pride to just admit it, if someone can help me figure it out.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

If you are making grassy, piney, resinous, turpentiney, smelly, esophagus eating, gasoline flavored, generally crappy IPA's, it sounds like you are doing all the right things and making them perfectly. That's what 99% of them taste and smell like.

Keep drinking them! You'll have a man bun and a neck beard in no time.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I know what a good IPA is, and I ain't making any.
I'm about to brew a Kolsch, with 1oz each of all the nobles.
I dont want to, if it tastes like boiled spinach.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I guess I could fill up a growler, and take it to the LHBS, to see what they think...that's about all I've got left.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I'm 46 by the way...no neck beard or man buns on this guy.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Yeah, good IPAs shouldn't taste like what you're describing. I'm drinking an IPA right now made with Columbus and El Dorado that's got a great flavor, party citrus and part pine/pepper. Not grassy at all. It's interesting your NEIPA turned out great but you're IPAs aren't. If you're buying purified water are you adding back any brewing salts?

 

[LeeH]

Water profile is the only thing I can think of.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I tried to clone 2 Hearted, and it sucks...its been in the keg about 3 weeks now. I'll give it some more time, but I expect I'll be dumping it.

 

[Sbe2]

What’s your hop schedule?

 

[Gravelscratcher]

What’s your hop schedule?

.

I put my 60 minute addition in a little early...kinda a first wort addition. Whirlpooled the flame out hops for about 15 or so.

 

[Sbe2]

Hmm. If I were to brew an IPA I would use that schedule. So we may have to play 20 questions.

Do you keg or bottle?

Have you used any other hop combos with the same result?

 

[z-bob]

If you want grapefruit, that's what my first attempt at an IPA tastes like. It was not a great beer, but was very hoppy without being grassy or overly bitter. Hops schedule (for 4 gallons) was:
1 oz - Dr. Rudi, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 35 min, IBU: 31.76
1 oz - Dr. Rudi, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 19.02
2 oz - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 6.2, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

I think the grapefruit note was mostly the Cascade. I've since heard that maybe I got lucky with the 7 day dry hops; that's a little too long to leave 'em in there.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Hmm. If I were to brew an IPA I would use that schedule. So we may have to play 20 questions.

Do you keg or bottle?

Have you used any other hop combos with the same result?

I keg. I use keg cleaner and clean my lines.
My pre carb samples already tasted like that, before I kegged it though.

Have had the same results, with virtually all my IPA's. They pretty much all taste the same.

Cryo hops worked out though...go figure

 

[Sbe2]

Maybe you are just sensitive to whatever hop oils are isomerized(not sure if that’s the term) during the boil. Kinda like how some ppl can’t stand cilantro.

Also, You could drop/remove your DH addition after 24 hrs so you don’t over extract.

For me, I can really pick up on that band aid taste from yeast. Whether it be from chloramine or stress.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

I think it's related to the late hop additions.
Both flame out and DH.
It's not just me though...others have tasted it in the brews too.
It's just hard to diagnose.
Need a BJCP judge to help me figure it out.

 

[6Tap]

If you are making grassy, piney, resinous, turpentiney, smelly, esophagus eating, gasoline flavored, generally crappy IPA's, it sounds like you are doing all the right things and making them perfectly. That's what 99% of them taste and smell like.

Keep drinking them! You'll have a man bun and a neck beard in no time.

Ohooo not a kind response but one somoneone would Expect from SoCal.
Advice from NorCal would be to change your hop supplier/ source!
Go direct through a grower
In Yakama. Brew it all fresh!
Cheers [emoji482]

 

[Kiln]

Work your hops backwards. Dry hop. whorlpool 180 f for an hour gives you about half the ibus as a 60 min addition, and use soft hops,aroma low AA. All about post boil. To get the good stuff. Then add a different hop for 60 something just for clean bitterness to balance. I have been using hop shots for 60 and citra or Cascade or Galaxy for whirlpool. Hop hash was great for dry hops. It just the lupulin powder. There is no veggies. Think post kettle additions. Think backwards.

 

[beernutz]

I'm 46 by the way...no neck beard or man buns on this guy.

 

[Braufessor]

What temperature are you dry hopping at and at what point......

I have read various things that mention dry hopping at lower temperatures can give you grassy flavors.

 

[TobyG32]

Making my own water profile from distilled fixed my exact problem you're having. I could make good malty beers, but could never get that delicious aroma and crispness from my IPA's until I got into water chemistry.

 

[6Tap]

How
Long are you dry hopping for?

 

[Gravelscratcher]

My temps did get lower than normal on this last one, a few times...just below 60. Like 56/57 to 60 or so, for the last week...which was when I DH’d. I DH’s the last 3 days in the primary (I keep the chest freezer in the garage). I didn’t get a heating pad yet, and I didn’t expect temps to get down early this season (I’m an hour North of Houston). What we call cold, is different than most of y’all.

I did just fill up a glass, and cleansed the pallet to take an honest taster.
It’s not as dramatic as some of the others, and I guess this one has the potential to come around. It suddenly doesn’t seem 1/2 bad.
I’m tasting some fruity backbone, and some of that veggie finish has faded. It’s not nearly as grassy as it was, when it was fresh in the keg.
Better than yesterday actually.
I’m finishing up on week 3 in the keg...hopefully I over reacted.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Making my own water profile from distilled fixed my exact problem you're having. I could make good malty beers, but could never get that delicious aroma and crispness from my IPA's until I got into water chemistry.

That’s interesting. I’ve been fighting getting into the water chemistry...wanted it to just work out.
I’m in too deep to pull out now...guess I may have to go all the way. :0

 

[Gravelscratcher]

How
Long are you dry hopping for?

3 to 5 days.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Touché

 

[Blazinlow86]

I think it's related to the late hop additions.
Both flame out and DH.
It's not just me though...others have tasted it in the brews too.
It's just hard to diagnose.
Need a BJCP judge to help me figure it out.

Are you accounting in your software for your whirlpooling temps and time. When I started brewing ALL the beers I made with late hops came out way more bitter then they should have been. Turned out i wasn't compensating for my process and was just following standard timings. As a example say someone post a recipe with a ton of flameout hops and there process allows them to chill and be in the fermentor in 5 mins from flamout. Now say your process includes whirlpooling for 15 mins with a 10 min rest. You then run thru your cfc chiller into the fermentor but you do larger batch sizes and your ground waters warmer so it takes another 20 mins to get to the fermentor. Your wort would could have stayed at 180 degrees for 45 minutes longer than the other brewers batch did and your wort could come out 3x as high a ibu. Something to consider as I only figured it out after realizing it was only the brew with heavy late hops having this issue. Cheers

 

[6Tap]

3 to 5 days.

Sounds right.
Still recommend different hop Suppiler.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

Are you accounting in your software for your whirlpooling temps and time. When I started brewing ALL the beers I made with late hops came out way more bitter then they should have been. Turned out i wasn't compensating for my process and was just following standard timings. As a example say someone post a recipe with a ton of flameout hops and there process allows them to chill and be in the fermentor in 5 mins from flamout. Now say your process includes whirlpooling for 15 mins with a 10 min rest. You then run thru your cfc chiller into the fermentor but you do larger batch sizes and your ground waters warmer so it takes another 20 mins to get to the fermentor. Your wort would could have stayed at 180 degrees for 45 minutes longer than the other brewers batch did and your wort could come out 3x as high a ibu. Something to consider as I only figured it out after realizing it was only the brew with heavy late hops having this issue. Cheers

You know, I’ve never paid any real attention to that. I’m still learning about whirlpool additions. I didn’t realize temperature was that important for flameout hops.
It’s hot most of the time, so it can take awhile to cool the wort down here.
I’m in the process of getting a pre-chiller, to accompany the wort chiller.
I’ve been putting the kettle in an ice water filled swamp bucket, and moving indoors during cool down. It’s worked better than the wort chiller.
Still takes a good 20 to 30 minutes or so to cool.
I’ve been whirlpooling just after flameout, so I guess I need to cool it down faster for whirlpool? What’s a good temp for w-pool?

Edit:
Not to mention that whirlpool addition was 30 minutes. They were in there awhile before I chilled to below 70.

 

[papz]

I would suggest doing some brews with a less total different hops. Not necessarily a SMASH brew but something with only 1 or 2 hops to try to pinpoint which one is making the flavors you dislike.

Also. I think roughly around 175-F is the sweet spot for hop-stands.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

On a serious note (no more man bun and neckbeard jokes, at least on this thread)... here's my list in order of probability (most to least) based on some of your descriptions

1. water chemistry
2. crap hop source
2A. unintended isomerization
3. post-pitch oxygenation (O2 is bad on any beer)
4. post-dry hop oxygenation (O2 is really bad on hop oils)
5. light struck (it's a stretch, but I have to throw it out there. had a friend once put his clear carboy where the sun hit it daily, God was that beer nasty)
6. type of hop versus grains and/or yeast selection

I've judged a ton of IPA's, some in 300+ entry competitions. One in maybe ten did NOT have multiple faults. Many almost cause an involuntary personal protein spill. The only categories with more faults than IPA's are the very light and clean styles where the brewer can't hide anything, and every fault shines right through.