How to build a Brewing Control Panel - HERMS 240V 30 AMP

[EyeofdaHawk]

Thanks Mike

Have hooked it up like that. Not just have to connected the alarm and it's done.

Cheers

Hawk

 

[Esmitee]

Hi Hawk,



Connect the donut to the other 2 points and pass the red wire, going from the main contactor to the SSR, thru the donut.

I hope that helps!

Hey Mike, by passing only the RED leg of power through the CT, that will only give you the AMPS of the heating elements and not the whole draw of the system, correct?
If you wanted to see ALL of the voltage and AMPs that my control panel is using, I would pass BOTH the RED & Black power supply power through the ct? I'm assuming so? Would that be correct?
Like this?

 

[MikeSkril]

Hey Mike, by passing only the RED leg of power through the CT, that will only give you the AMPS of the heating elements and not the whole draw of the system, correct?
If you wanted to see ALL of the voltage and AMPs that my control panel is using, I would pass BOTH the RED & Black power supply power through the ct? I'm assuming so? Would that be correct?
Like this?View attachment 556342

Yes, only the red cable and it will show you the amp draw of the elements. That's the only important thing anyway as the amp draw from the pumps is not significant.

If you want to pass both wires thru the donut, I think you need to invert the direction of one wire. Like running one wire from one side thru the donut and the 2nd from the other side. Just try it, you won't break anything. Worst case, your reading is incorrect.

Let me know if that worked...

When your element is set to 100% power, the amp meter should show about 22 amp's (if your elements are 5500W).

 

[doug293cz]

Hey Mike, by passing only the RED leg of power through the CT, that will only give you the AMPS of the heating elements and not the whole draw of the system, correct?
If you wanted to see ALL of the voltage and AMPs that my control panel is using, I would pass BOTH the RED & Black power supply power through the ct? I'm assuming so? Would that be correct?
Like this?View attachment 556342

Yes, only the red cable and it will show you the amp draw of the elements. That's the only important thing anyway as the amp draw from the pumps is not significant.

If you want to pass both wires thru the donut, I think you need to invert the direction of one wire. Like running one wire from one side thru the donut and the 2nd from the other side. Just try it, you won't break anything. Worst case, your reading is incorrect.

Let me know if that worked...

When your element is set to 100% power, the amp meter should show about 22 amp's (if your elements are 5500W).

No, you don't want to run both wires thru the current detection coil. If you run both thru in the "normal" direction, then the currents will subtract from each other, and the only current measured will be the imbalance between the red and black wires at the location of the coil. If you run one of the wires in the reverse direction, then the currents will add, and you will read roughly twice the element current (plus the red/black current imbalance.) Just so happens I did a design yesterday that shows how to measure the total element, pump, and electronics current. Note that in this design everything but the pump is running on 240V. If you want to make sure you measure all of the 120V (as well as 240V) current, then all of the 120V must be taken from one and only one of the hot lines (the black hot in the case of the schematic below.)

Brew on

 

[MikeSkril]

No, you don't want to run both wires thru the current detection coil. If you run both thru in the "normal" direction, then the currents will subtract from each other, and the only current measured will be the imbalance between the red and black wires at the location of the coil. If you run one of the wires in the reverse direction, then the currents will add, and you will read roughly twice the element current (plus the red/black current imbalance.) Just so happens I did a design yesterday that shows how to measure the total element, pump, and electronics current. Note that in this design everything but the pump is running on 240V. If you want to make sure you measure all of the 120V (as well as 240V) current, then all of the 120V must be taken from one and only one of the hot lines (the black hot in the case of the schematic below.)

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Esmitee]

Thanks Mike, and Thanks Doug, for clearing that up for me.

I see how in Mike's system, why the CT is placed where it's placed and how it would only read the AMPs/VOLTs of just the elements, IE: after the Main Contactor, before the SSR's.

I figured if the CT was placed on the supply source BEFORE the main contactor [as in your diagram Doug] the CT will read ALL the VOLT/AMPs that the system uses. But I was wrong with putting both hot wires through the CT.

My panel is 50 AMP, with each SSR on it's own circuit. So I think the way I have the power distributed, I would need 2 Volt/Amp meters.
Anyway, I'm assuming again Doug, I could put the CT on either the Red or Black hot wire. or does it have to be on the Black?

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks Mike, and Thanks Doug, for clearing that up for me.

I see how in Mike's system, why the CT is placed where it's placed and how it would only read the AMPs/VOLTs of just the elements, IE: after the Main Contactor, before the SSR's.

I figured if the CT was placed on the supply source BEFORE the main contactor [as in your diagram Doug] the CT will read ALL the VOLT/AMPs that the system uses. But I was wrong with putting both hot wires through the CT.

My panel is 50 AMP, with each SSR on it's own circuit. So I think the way I have the power distributed, I would need 2 Volt/Amp meters.
Anyway, I'm assuming again Doug, I could put the CT on either the Red or Black hot wire. or does it have to be on the Black?

If you want to measure the current used by each element, then you need two meters. If you just want to measure the total system current, then a placement like I used will work with a single meter.

The coil doesn't care what color the wire is, only how much current flows thru the wire (and it must be AC current.) Current flows thru loops, and each load is part of a single loop (in normal systems.) However, many wires in the system will be part of multiple loops. The current measured will depend on what combination of loops the particular length of wire belongs to. I'll put together a little drawing to help explain this.

Brew on

 

[Esmitee]

If you want to measure the current used by each element, then you need two meters. If you just want to measure the total system current, then a placement like I used will work with a single meter.

The coil doesn't care what color the wire is, only how much current flows thru the wire (and it must be AC current.) Current flows thru loops, and each load is part of a single loop (in normal systems.) However, many wires in the system will be part of multiple loops. The current measured will depend on what combination of loops the particular length of wire belongs to. I'll put together a little drawing to help explain this.

Brew on [/QUOYou are the MAN, Doug

If you want to measure the current used by each element, then you need two meters. If you just want to measure the total system current, then a placement like I used will work with a single meter.

The coil doesn't care what color the wire is, only how much current flows thru the wire (and it must be AC current.) Current flows thru loops, and each load is part of a single loop (in normal systems.) However, many wires in the system will be part of multiple loops. The current measured will depend on what combination of loops the particular length of wire belongs to. I'll put together a little drawing to help explain this.

Brew on

Thank you again Doug, You are the man!
I would love to see your drawing.

 

[doug293cz]

OK, here's the drawing. It's a (not unrealistic) representation of current flow in a 50A control panel. I left out all of the switches, contactors, PID's, lights, etc. The arrows show current flow direction during 1/2 of the AC cycle. During the other 1/2 of the cycle current flow is in the opposite direction.

• The wire segment with 48A is part of 4 loops
• The wire segment with 47A is part of 3 loops
• The wire segments with 46A are part of 2 loops
• The wire segments with 23A are part of 1 loop
• The wire segment with 2A is part of 2 loops
• The wire segments with 1A are part of 1 loop

If you put the input black and red wires thru the current detection coil, you would measure 2A. If you put the input black, red and white wires thru the coil, you would measure zero amps, and in fact, this is exactly what is done inside your 240V GFCI circuit breaker.

Brew on

 

[EyeofdaHawk]

Hi again, sorry this is an addtional question. I'm trying to figure out how to wire int he alarm, from 2 Ezboil, (120 and 320) and a SYL. Alarm wiring appears to be both 1+2 and 13+14. I'm not using a timer, and so will go straight to the alarm and alarm off switch. Can i just wire up the DSPRs and SYL in parallel and wire the Ezboil 120 (closest to alarm/switch) to the alarm/switch, similar to your design? I'm just confused where it all has to go (from which Ezboil/SYL connector).

This literally is the last bit. After this i rewire the garage (to handle the ampage) and hey presto, brewery operational (provided it all works).

Thanks

Hawk

 

[EyeofdaHawk]

Oh actually for some reason my DSPR120 does not have connecorts 13+14...

 

[doug293cz]

Hi again, sorry this is an addtional question. I'm trying to figure out how to wire int he alarm, from 2 Ezboil, (120 and 320) and a SYL. Alarm wiring appears to be both 1+2 and 13+14. I'm not using a timer, and so will go straight to the alarm and alarm off switch. Can i just wire up the DSPRs and SYL in parallel and wire the Ezboil 120 (closest to alarm/switch) to the alarm/switch, similar to your design? I'm just confused where it all has to go (from which Ezboil/SYL connector).

This literally is the last bit. After this i rewire the garage (to handle the ampage) and hey presto, brewery operational (provided it all works).

Thanks

Hawk

Most of the alarm "outputs" on all PID's, timers, etc. are in reality just single pole single throw switches (relays.) Although in some cases they are single pole double throw. They do not provide any power unless you wire power to one (or the other) of a pair alarm terminals. Like most switches, it does not mater which side is connected to power, and which side goes to the load, except in the case of double throw relays, where it's usually the common terminal that gets connected to power.

When the alarm is "active" the switch turns on (closes) in the case of an NO (normally open) switch, or in the case of an NC (normally closed) set of contacts, the switch turns off (opens.) You can put alarm switches/relays in parallel to a single buzzer/lamp, in which case the buzzer/lamp will be active if any one of the switches/relays in parallel is on (closed.) If you are going to wire alarms in parallel make sure you provide power to the switches/relays from the same hot line (in a 240V system), unless you like smoke and the smell of burning electronics.

Brew on

 

[EyeofdaHawk]

Ah right, i think i've done that. Put the hot bus to 13 on on the Ezboil, then this is wired to 13 on the ezboil, and to 2 on the SYL. Wired the 1 to the 14 for the Ezboils, and but not for the SYL (doesn't have a 13 + 14). Connected 1 on the SYL to the alarm switch, and this to the alarm buzzer, and the other socket on the buzzer to neutral.

This all sound right? Basically done

, minus the switches at the bottom of each unit, oh and no timer.

 

[Esmitee]

Hey Mike, I didn't realize that I may be derailing your thread with my questions, so I started a thread over here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/placement-of-ct-donut-on-50-amp-panel.644825/

 

[augiedoggy]

Oh actually for some reason my DSPR120 does not have connecorts 13+14...

Thats because its the basic (economy ) model... The 320 has the additional bells and whistles such as the multiple relays for alarms and such.. I used mine to start an auxiliary timer for my hop additions once the boil was reached.

 

[Joon1975]

Okay, so I just received all my components to finish building my kegs and I will be done this weekend. I’m looking into ordering the parts for the control panel. I’m going to need a power cable for the control. Do I need to order other components to support this? How would I go about wiring this up? I’m not an electrician so any detailed how to, will be appreciated.

PLEASE HELP!!!!

 

[MikeSkril]

Okay, so I just received all my components to finish building my kegs and I will be done this weekend. I’m looking into ordering the parts for the control panel. I’m going to need a power cable for the control. Do I need to order other components to support this? How would I go about wiring this up? I’m not an electrician so any detailed how to, will be appreciated.

PLEASE HELP!!!!

Please have a look here. Should become handy...

 

[Joon1975]

I purchased the copy already but like I said I’m no electrician. I’m going to attempt to build the control panel. I rather try and build it than purchase one. I want that feeling of accomplishment! [emoji16] just point me to the right direction.

By the way, it’s a great write up!

 

[MikeSkril]

I purchased the copy already but like I said I’m no electrician. I’m going to attempt to build the control panel. I rather try and build it than purchase one. I want that feeling of accomplishment! [emoji16] just point me to the right direction.

By the way, it’s a great write up!

Thanks, that's great! I'm here to help were I can. Please head over to my forum to post specific questions, or post them here if you like that better. Don't get overwhelmed, just do one step at a time.

 

[augiedoggy]

Please have a look here. Should become handy...

just a heads up, If you dont know this already I think your violating the forum rules and may get in trouble here for promoting the sale of your products without being a forum vendor or sponsor...

 

[MikeSkril]

just a heads up, If you dont know this already I think your violating the forum rules and may get in trouble here for promoting the sale of your products without being a forum vendor or sponsor...

I changed the post, linking to my blog, where information for the panel build is accessible for free.

 

[augiedoggy]

just pointing it out as I hate to see the thread removed.. I think its helped a lot of folks realize its not rocket science and as long as they dont want to use it as an excuse they dont need to pay someone else $300 an hr to assemble one for them.

 

[Electric Mike]

We're are you guys finding these 12x12x6 boxes. The ones im finding are in the $80 range

 

[augiedoggy]

We're are you guys finding these 12x12x6 boxes. The ones im finding are in the $80 range

Lowe's and home Depot... Carlon 12x12x8 I believe.. like 38-40 bucks

 

[MikeSkril]

We're are you guys finding these 12x12x6 boxes. The ones im finding are in the $80 range

Try to find a distributor for electrical supplies. That’s where the electricians buy their stuff. There should be one near you.

I bought my box for $20, but only the boxes are cheap, everything else was much cheaper on the internet.

 

[Electric Mike]

Thanks guys. I have been to both my local Home Depot and lowes and no work boxes. Off to my local electric supply house.
HD&lowes also have no 30a spa boxes either just 50a.

One more question for now lol
For the 8 circuit terminal strip is 600v 25a what I'm looking for? It's the only one I seem to find that has a plastic cover over the terminals.

 

[MikeSkril]

Thanks guys. I have been to both my local Home Depot and lowes and no boxes. No 30a spa box either just 50a.

Spa panels are usually 50 amp. No problem in using that if you have a 30 amp breaker in your main panel. I have the same setup, 30 amp standard breaker in the main panel and a 50 amp GFCI in the SPA panel.

One more question for now lol
For the 8 circuit terminal strip is 600v 25a what I'm looking for? It's the only one I seem to find that has a plastic cover over the terminals.

You can get 15 amp strips too. There will be no high current on these strips. No problem if there is no plastic cover, just don't touch it.

 

[augiedoggy]

They are in the isle with the plastic electrical conduit.. I had a hard time finding them myself but since bought 3 at both stores. They normally have 4 different sizes.

 

[augiedoggy]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-...n+{brand}+12+in.+x+12+in.+x+6+in.+box+{rest}+

 

[Electric Mike]

That looks like plastic