How much hops/dry hops to generally make a pale ale be considered a India Pale Ale?

[rgregoryirving]

You won't get a clear answer. I have heard some people say that Pale Ales should not be dry hopped, but I dry hop most of my Pale Ales. I have made some beers with a good amount of hops that I call a Pale Ale, but mostly because they are in the 5% ABV range. I have a beer fermenting now that got 8.6 oz of homegrown hops into the kettle. It will not be dry hopped, but I will call it an IPA because it should be in the 6.5% to 7% ABV range. Zombie Dust is sold as a Pale Ale, but at 6.2% and heavily hopped, it would clearly be an IPA in my book. Some say IBUs determine the style, but plenty of IPAs are made these days with 40 or less IBUs.

I guess in my view, ABV is the biggest factor.

This is an interesting discussion because I just got into a debate last night with SWMBO regarding this very topic. I recently brewed a SMASH pale ale and she was curious what the difference was and why I called it a pale ale rather than an IPA. I wasn't sure how to respond other than I hopped less aggressively than I would've if I was going to call it an IPA -- it's 5.1% and 56 IBUs.

She was less than satisfied with my response and proceeded to ask our Google Home the difference and it's top Pale Ale (I'm not sure what it was citing as the source) was listed as Zombie Dust--to which I promptly replied that I would've considered that an IPA.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

3 Floyds describes Zombie Dust as a Pale Ale. It finished 3rd at 2012 Great American Beer Festival in the (2012) American-Style Pale Ale category.

In 2021, at 6.5% & 62 IBUs, it may not fit in the 2021 Brewers Association Beer Style Guidelines for American-Style Pale Ale:

• Original Gravity (°Plato) 1.044-1.050 (11-12.4 °Plato)
• Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (°Plato) 1.008-1.014 (2.1-3.6 °Plato)
• Alcohol by Weight (Volume) 3.5%-4.3% (4.4%-5.4%)
• Hop Bitterness (IBU) 30-50
• Color SRM (EBC) 4-7 (8-14 EBC)

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I do not like that they say that it produces sourness over time. I am not a fan of tart beer (unless it is a sour of course). That´s why I liked the description of the claussenii more. Also, it was originaly cultured from the type of beer i want to brew. But these beer must have had multiple bretts inside obviously.

MTF suggest that the Brett component of 9097 Old Ale is Wyeast's 5526 Brux "lambicus", and the Sacc is from Thomas Hardy but I've got no other source for that. The cherry pie description would fit 5526.

My vague understanding is that claussenii is probably the best fit, these beers didn't have hit-you-over-the-head horse blanket character.

Quick Google for "Crisp Chevallier €" throws up a couple of options. I would have thought Geterbrewed are probably your best bet as they take advantage of the leakiness of the Irish border.

 

[Miraculix]

MTF suggest that the Brett component of 9097 Old Ale is Wyeast's 5526 Brux "lambicus", and the Sacc is from Thomas Hardy but I've got no other source for that. The cherry pie description would fit 5526.

My vague understanding is that claussenii is probably the best fit, these beers didn't have hit-you-over-the-head horse blanket character.

Quick Google for "Crisp Chevallier €" throws up a couple of options. I would have thought Geterbrewed are probably your best bet as they take advantage of the leakiness of the Irish border.

Thanks mate, I will have a look on that. Finally a good reason to buy a second speidel

 

[madscientist451]

I just got into a debate last night with SWMBO

She was less than satisfied

Not a good combination.....
Happy wife rule.....SWMBO always "wins" debates
I'd be happy she likes beer and likes to talk about them.
Sorry, as usual I'm .

Somewhere I read that an IPA is supposed to be over 40 IBU and have higher alcohol than a normal beer.
So if you want to call your 5.1% 56 IBU smash beer an IPA, you're covered. But, if you want to call it a pale ale, you're also safe.
The easy answer to the IPA/PA label is: all commercial breweries will stretch the IPA definition so they can sell more beer, homebrewers and beer nerds will continue to debate such things to provide something to talk about.

 

[Brewdog80]

I find this sort of question funny when asked by homebrews. Brew what YOU want and like to drink. If for a competition, brew within the std guidelines or suffer the expected consequences. But if you Really want to recreate the IPA, brew with lots of hops, and drink it flat with only enough pressure to push out of the keg and at a temperature of no less than 75f. Way worse than export Guinness at 77f in Jakarta, just hold the ice please.

 

[kevin58]

Abv - that does make a lot of sense - high Abv with moderate amount of hops - IPA - back in the original IPA days - 19th century- how much hops
Adj was added for the trip to India?

If you want to see brew logs from the 19th century and get some solid information about how much hops, abv, etc then you need to read Ron Pattinson's blog, Shut Up About Barclay Perkins. Shut up about Barclay Perkins (link goes to a search of the term IPA).

Quick work on the hops/India connection... Hops were not so much added at high levels to make the beer survivable. The Alcohol preserves the beer. The high level of hops were to account for hop degradation over the long journey. And a side note on beer sent to India... far more Porter was shipped for the soldiers and was also more heavily hopped. So does that make India Porter a thing?

 

[tennesseean_87]

Does anyone know of a freely available list of recipes that target the "mid-point" (or "mid-points") of common styles?

If such a list does exist, it would be a good way learn more about styles "by example and sampling".

For those willing spend a few dollars on a book, Simple Homebrewing (chapter 7: Simple Recipe Design) has a number of recipe templates for various styles.

Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles is a good starting point. Otherwise, look at some of his recipes that are available online.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles is a good starting point. Otherwise, look at some of his recipes that are available online.

Thanks. I'm aware of Brewing Classic Styles (it's not free).

What I was looking for was a free list of free quality recipes that could be a shared point of reference when discussing recipes / styles. It may be reasonable to categorize the recipes by "decade" (1980s IPA vs 2020s IPA) and by region (west coast, east coast, north coast, ...).