How long to age, and other "first" batch questions

[RD52]

Howdy all, first post.

20-odd years ago I made a few batches of mead. Some good, some just ok. However, I forget many of the details. So while this isn't technically my first batch I'm close to a newbie.
A week ago I put in a one gallon batch. 2.5#s of honey and 40 ozs. of raw apple juice. Apple juice was mostly as a yeast nutrient, I had good luck with that in one of the old batches. Didn't measure OG, but assume it's about what I'd get from 3#s of honey. Some kind of champagne yeast, I forgot to write it down. Yes, I know that was stupid.
So, some questions.

1) It's been bubbling nicely, one every 5-6 seconds, maybe slowing very slightly now (day 8). I'm figuring 3-4 weeks for it to ferment out completely. Reasonable?

2) Is it worth putting it in a secondary at some point?

3) If I want it mildly carbonated (and I do! ) how much corn sugar or honey to use? I'm thinking 1 1/2 tablespoons of honey. Good guess?

4) And finally, how long to age this before I'll have a decent idea of whether or not it's a success? By far the most discouraging thing about starting to make mead is the time it takes to try your creation, and also the thought of having to fill a year long pipeline.

Thanks!

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi RD52 - and welcome. I think most good mead makers today would argue that the length of time folk needed to wait while their meads aged in the past was largely because of poor protocol and unnecessarily high ABV. Today, many mead makers age their meads like beers if session meads and in months if the mead is more like a wine.
How long will your mead take to ferment out? I don't know. You need an hydrometer.
Not sure that apple juice always provides enough nutrients. Some apples are low in nitrogen and that is a very critical element. In fact the extended "aging" that was common years ago was largely due to providing the honey with insufficient nutrient load. Cannot advise you whether to add nutrients now because when the alcohol level reaches about 9% (I think) the yeast cannot absorb the nutrients and so you are feeding bacteria and other mold.
If I am carbonating my meads I add about 20 g /gallon of sugar. I have no idea what a tablespoonful of honey weighs. You want to use quantities and volumes that are easy to replicate, IMO.
Last thought: 2.5 lbs of honey will raise the gravity of water by a scant 90 points. Apple juice, typically, has a gravity of about 1.045 or thereabouts. I don't know whether the 40 oz is a liquid or a solid measure but you will know how much water you added to make a gallon. If the 40 oz is liquid then you probably added another 80 oz of water (plus or minus) so the AJ increased the gravity by about 15 points - so the starting gravity was about 1.105 (an ABV of about 14%.). Is that a high ABV? Well, most wines are balanced when the ABV is about 12%.

 

[CKuhns]

Welcome back to Mead making!

"A week ago I put in a one gallon batch. 2.5#s of honey and 40 ozs. of raw apple juice. Apple juice was mostly as a yeast nutrient"
Apple Juice does carry some nutrients. IMO not enough for a higher ABV Mead. I typically do a staggered nutrient addition at pitch and 1/3 sugar break. When doing a Cyser (Apple Juice & Honey Mead) As Bernard noted you are likely beyond the point with this batch where additional nutrients could help.

"Didn't measure OG, but assume it's about what I'd get from 3#s of honey.Some kind of champagne yeast, I forgot to write it down." Would have helped to understand how you are progressing and certainly for predicting when you may be done.

1) It's been bubbling nicely, one every 5-6 seconds, maybe slowing very slightly now (day 8). I'm figuring 3-4 weeks for it to ferment out completely. Reasonable? Yes reasonable 3 - 4 weeks in Primary is reasonable. However, is wildly variable based upon nutrients, aeration or releasing CO2, your yeast, OG and temperature while fermenting.

2) Is it worth putting it in a secondary at some point?
Definitely a good idea but some folks do not. IMO is necessary but only after Primary is complete. I typically ferment to semi sweet and let it "finish" in secondary for 20 - 30 days after Primary. Consider evaluating it with a hydrometer and at about 1.010 plus or minus a bit I tend to rack to secondary.

3) If I want it mildly carbonated (and I do! ) how much corn sugar or honey to use? I'm thinking 1 1/2 tablespoons of honey. Good guess?
Cant help here I only do still or kegged Meads. But there is information out there based upon your FG. I would not guess as bottle bombs and or under carbonated mead is not optimal.

4) And finally, how long to age this before I'll have a decent idea of whether or not it's a success? By far the most discouraging thing about starting to make mead is the time it takes to try your creation, and also the thought of having to fill a year long pipeline.
Again as Bernard noted without nutrient addition other than the Apple Cider and not knowing the yeast or temperature you fermented at along with the fact we all have differing preferences and tastes this is hard to estimate. I would suggest you taste it at bottling to get a baseline, bottle it, wait 3 months and try it. Then if not to your satisfaction try it again every 2 months or so until it tastes to your liking. I have been able to age out a few Meads that at bottling were pretty tough. A few I managed to mess up pretty badly took up to 2 years before I was happy with them.

This one at nearly 14 ABV and without Nutrients could take a year or more. But certainly is worth keeping around and carbonating it will help.

As Bernard suggested Low ABV Session Meads with good protocols and technique can be drank very young. As soon as a month or two after bottling. Higher ABV Meads in my experience taste OK young (6 Months or less) but at 12 - 18 months can be very good to amazing. Again this is all subjective based upon your own tastes and preferences.

Good luck - Fill the Pipeline!!!!

 

[RD52]

Thanks guys for your input. I'll try to answer some questions you asked.

The apple juice I used was the raw, unfiltered kind, got it at a health food store. Back when I was doing mead before I had used some like it, a quart in a 5 gallon batch, and it fermented out completely, quite dry. I figured that 40 ozs (liquid measure) ought to be plenty. Back then I had also tried the clear, name brand stuff, and that didn't work nearly as well.

I've been fermenting at temps ranging from the low 60's to high 60's. Lower temps like this lead to a mead that needs less aging?

Looking online at the amount of sugar in apple juice, it seems that I should have just about the same amount of total sugar that I would have gotten from 3# of mead. I asked at the brew shop for yeast that would give me a dry mead, so I'm assuming it should ferment out completely? If so, any idea what the FG should be? I'll get a hydrometer, and taste it also when bubbling rate drops dramatically. I'll transfer to a secondary at that point.

A tablespoon is 1/2 oz (fluid), so assuming honey is 12lbs/gal and chasing the conversions around I get ~20 grams of sugar in a tbsp of honey, so that should be about right at bottling. Don't want any grenades! Had that happen with beer, what a mess.

Thanks again!

Rich

 

[bernardsmith]

Three pounds of honey to make a gallon will have a starting gravity of about 1.105 (1 lb is 1.035). and 1.105 has a potential ABV of about 14%. In truth there is no such thing as a "sweet mead" yeast or a "dry mead" yeast. Few yeasts are unable to ferment bone dry a starting gravity of 1.105 although poor protocol (accidentally) or nuanced protocol (deliberately) can halt the fermentation before that. So, assuming your protocol is OK then whatever yeast you pitched should take this all the way down to 1.000 or even lower (.996, say)

 

[RD52]

Three pounds of honey to make a gallon will have a starting gravity of about 1.105 (1 lb is 1.035). and 1.105 has a potential ABV of about 14%. In truth there is no such thing as a "sweet mead" yeast or a "dry mead" yeast. Few yeasts are unable to ferment bone dry a starting gravity of 1.105 although poor protocol (accidentally) or nuanced protocol (deliberately) can halt the fermentation before that. So, assuming your protocol is OK then whatever yeast you pitched should take this all the way down to 1.000 or even lower (.996, say)

Thanks, that helps a lot.

 

[Yemany]

Hi RD52,

For question 3, would use corn sugar for carbonation. Honey is not very suitable for priming. U can use a priming sugar calculator for beer. I only make carbonated meads and usually there not carbonated more than a stout or ale. You can use the calculator for that .

For question 4, the higher the avb the longer it needs to age. If you use wine making techniques you can have a drinkable mead within 3 months. You can age them longer to get the elbows out. Also the use of sulfites is important. It will help stabelice your mead and it protects against oxidation. I primarily make hydromels with 5/6% avb and are drinkable when there bottled.

Hope this helps

 

[RD52]

Yemany, thanks for the info.

Just out of curiosity, why is honey not good for priming?

 

[Yemany]

It is not 100% fermentibal and that makes it hard to get the right amount of carbonation. For example if you take 1 kg of honey only 800 grams is fermentable. Sorry for the kg I live in Europe. So it is harder to calculate the right amount that is needed than with corn sugar.

 

[RD52]

Progress report!
Bought a hydrometer to measure SG. It's been 2 weeks now, fermentation is slowing a bit, down to one bubble every 9-10 seconds.
SG is 1.030, so if the estimate of OG at 1.100-1.105 is correct then it's about 2/3's done. Tasted a bit, definitely still sweet but overall a wonderful flavor. Quite optimist at this point.

 

[Ryue]

Looks like most your questions have good answers by now, I would just like to add that just because you have a high ABV, does not necessarily mean that you need to age it for a long time to be drinkable. One of my recipies has a 19.5%abv and is very drinkable and smooth as soon as I bottle (9ish weeks from pitching yeast). Now, I also had another recipie that was only 15%abv and at first I almost threw it out but after about 4 months in bottles is mellowing out nicely. So it really varies and your best bet is just to taste it at the start and then every so often, like CKuhns stated.
Good luck and welcome back!

 

[RD52]

Progress report!

Checked the SG and did a taste test today, day 25. SG was right at 1.00. Still have noticeable activity, getting a bubble through the airlock about once per minute. The wife and I both tried a small sample. She looked up at me with a big smile and went "Wow", so I think I'm doing ok. Not as sweet as at the check at the 2 week mark when the SG was 1.03, but not bone dry dry either. Probably rack it in 9-10 days and check things then.
Very happy so far.

 

[bernardsmith]

It is not 100% fermentibal and that makes it hard to get the right amount of carbonation. For example if you take 1 kg of honey only 800 grams is fermentable. Sorry for the kg I live in Europe. So it is harder to calculate the right amount that is needed than with corn sugar.

My honey is always 100% fermentable but what honey also contains is some proteins and other compounds and these can create a haze, so if you prime just before bottling and the mead you are bottling is crystal clear it won't be once you add honey to prime.