How long is too long in Primary?

[JRockafellow]

Over the summer (early July) a buddy and I brewed a Saison using the leftover yeast cake from a batch of cider I had made. That yeast went directly from the cider into the saison with a fair amount of cider itself. Since that point life has really gotten in the way of being able to keg and split our beer. So the question I have is this: After nearly 3 months sitting in the primary fermentation bucket, in a cool dark place, with sanitizer in the airlock, will the resulting beer be ok to keg and drink or should we scrap and revisit the process?

 

[beernutz]

Three months in primary isn't too long given the conditions you describe. Autolysis IMO is primarily a concern for professional brewers using large conical fermenters which put tremendous pressure on the yeast at the bottom of the cone. Rather than problematic your beer will likely be fantastic.

Your yeast choice is interesting in that I've heard of people making cider with Saison yeast but not the other way around.

 

[JRockafellow]

Actually the yeast used in the cider was Belle Saison. I just happened to have made the cider first then pitched it into the Saison I was brewing.

 

[snowtiger1987]

What does it taste like? Should be fine.

 

[chicken]

I wouldn't worry about it. I have left beer for that long numerous times with no problems.

I remember when I first learned to brew, there was a lot of emphasis on racking to secondary, and getting the beer off of the yeast before too long. I left the hobby for a number of years, and came back to find that people were saying that autolysis probably wasn't that big a concern after all, and that there was no hurry about racking to secondary --if a secondary was used at all.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Autolysis IMO is primarily a concern for professional brewers using large conical fermenters which put tremendous pressure on the yeast at the bottom of the cone.

I don't understand this theory. Yeast are single-celled organisms, it would seem that internal cell pressure would quickly reach osmotic balance with the outside environment, regardless of static pressure. In the case of bottom-fermenting lager strains, the yeast would live out their entire life cycle at a fixed pressure anyway.

 

[beernutz]

I don't understand this theory. Yeast are single-celled organisms, it would seem that internal cell pressure would quickly reach osmotic balance with the outside environment, regardless of static pressure. In the case of bottom-fermenting lager strains, the yeast would live out their entire life cycle at a fixed pressure anyway.

I am not a professional brewer or a microbiologist so perhaps I put too much faith in what "experts" have written. I have read professional brewing literature such as the one copied below which supports the relationship between cone pressure (among other factors) and autolysis.

I think they are called bottom fermenting yeast because though they ferment throughout the wort there isn't much activity on the top of it and the yeast tend to settle on the bottom of the fermenter as fermentation ends which if you buy that premise means the pressure on such yeast during fermentation wouldn't be constant.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0...ysis yeast pressure conical fermenter&f=false

 

[Jayjay1976]

I am not a professional brewer or a microbiologist so perhaps I put too much faith in what "experts" have written. I have read professional brewing literature such as the one copied below which supports the relationship between cone pressure (among other factors) and autolysis.

I think they are called bottom fermenting yeast because though they ferment throughout the wort there isn't much activity on the top of it and the yeast tend to settle on the bottom of the fermenter as fermentation ends which if you buy that premise means the pressure on such yeast during fermentation wouldn't be constant.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0XA7DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=autolysis+yeast+pressure+conical+fermenter&source=bl&ots=W5GBpGOFCu&sig=vvtNJwH0U2_apwQAhJH4Z_JbTcM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjl_7Lf6vrdAhVpneAKHYLABOg4HhDoATAHegQIAhAB#v=onepage&q=autolysis yeast pressure conical fermenter&f=false

Well that's good enough for me! Just cancelled my order for a 300bbl fermenter, I think I'll stick with 5 gallon batches for now.

 

[beernutz]

Well that's good enough for me! Just cancelled my order for a 300bbl fermenter, I think I'll stick with 5 gallon batches for now.

You could do as many commercial brewers do and start to dump yeast/trub from your conical on day two of fermentation. Alternatively you could use several thousand 5 gallon fermenters and save yourself that effort.

 

[RM-MN]

I don't understand this theory. Yeast are single-celled organisms, it would seem that internal cell pressure would quickly reach osmotic balance with the outside environment, regardless of static pressure. In the case of bottom-fermenting lager strains, the yeast would live out their entire life cycle at a fixed pressure anyway.

The problem isn't the pressure, it's the fact that the yeast are not just laying there in that big cone, they give off a little heat. In a small fermenter that isn't a problem because the heat dissipates quickly but in that big mass of yeast sitting in the cone of the big (huge?) fermenter the heat doesn't dissipate quickly enough so the yeast in the center get too warm and die.