How Long for Pacman to Show Signs of Fermentation?

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ultravista

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I brewed Yoopers Dead Guy clone yesterday; the post-boil gravity was 1.070 and I pitched the swollen pack of Pacman at 65 degrees (f) around 8:00 PM last night (PST). The carboy sits at approximately 60 degrees right now in a tub of water with frozen water bottles.

As of 7:30 AM (PST), aproximately 12 hours after pitching, I do not see signs of active fermentation. It looks no different than it did last night.

How long does it typically take Pacman to show signs of fermentation? Should it have started by now or is this typical if yeast at low temperatures?

I was expecting crazy fermentation by now.
 

AnOldUR

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Underpitch. Should of made a starter with a 1.070 beer.
It should work, but you risk off flavors and a stalled fermentation.
 

JJL

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It could take up to a couple of days to get going, but with the higher gravity, you might want to consider pitching another packet of yeast. Now is the time if you are going to do it.
 
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ultravista

ultravista

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I don't have another packet of yeast, only unwashed yeast I've been collecting from several bottles of Rogue Ales.

There's approximately 1 inch of yeast in a small Mason jar.

While it is Pacman, it is a collection from several different bottles. Are there any risks associated with "collecting" yeast from various sources?

Should I pitch this "as is", try to build it up, or ?
 

permo

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I don't have another packet of yeast, only unwashed yeast I've been collecting from several bottles of Rogue Ales.

There's approximately 1 inch of yeast in a small Mason jar.

While it is Pacman, it is a collection from several different bottles. Are there any risks associated with "collecting" yeast from various sources?

Should I pitch this "as is", try to build it up, or ?
Build up a starter and pitch it while it is actively fermenting. For a 1.070 beer I would use at least a 2 litre starter.....you underpitched. Those are not happy yeast. Pacman love nutrient too...so throw some of that in the starter if you have it. Pacman should take off like a beast and finish dry and quick if you pitch properly.
 
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ultravista

ultravista

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permo, build a starter for the collected yeast? Can you give me a plan to follow? I have not made a starter before. I've got a one pound bag of DME, a 2L flask, and a stirplate - but never used them before.

How long will it take to build up a starter, from start to finish? Considering I brewed yesterday, I need to get this stuff going.

Is it an overnight thing or a couple of days?

Could I pull some of the wort from the fermenter to build up my starter or should I start with fresh water and DME?

Also, please comment on the yeast gathering from multiple bottles. Are there any issues doing this?
 

Calder

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You can pull some wort from the fermenter. Dilute it with same amount of sanitized water (cooled from the kettle), to get it to about 1.030. Probably want to start with about a liter (especially if there is a reasonable amount of collected yeast).

Time to get going - it depends on the viability of the cells. If there are only a few live cells, it could take a week. If there are lots, you could have activity within a day.

Once you get kraeusen, pitch into wort, since the wort is ready and waiting.

Don't worry about yeast being from several bottles. If it's all PacMan, that's good. If there are different strains, you will have to see which becomes dominant.
 

MachineShopBrewing

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I wouldn't bother trying to make the starter from the bottle dregs at this point in the fermentation. yeah, it was an underpitch, but it will still make beer. Doing all that other stuff hap-hazzardly and then pitching it 2, maybe 7, days into a ferment is going to more harm than good. There is too great a chance for infection or oxidation. You are going to get more growth due to the underpitch and that is the cause for the longer lag time. From what I hear the pacman is a very aggressive yeast and you should be ok getting to FG. Just chalk it up to learning and next time you will have the starter culture ready to go ahead of time.
 

ChshreCat

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I'd just let it be. I've used pacman right from the smack pack in beers up to that gravity and they came out just fine. Yeah, I should have made starters, but they all took off after about 24 hours and fermented out just fine. If you aerated properly, yours will take off before you'll have time to get a starter done.
 
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ultravista

ultravista

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I am seeing fermentation, nothing agressive but there is a a little foam on the top and the airlock is moving approximately every 5 seconds.

The cooler temperature (60/f) will also slow it down, correct? I speculate that had it been in the 70's, it would be going much faster now.

So, is a 20 to 24 hour lagtime going to really impact the flavor AND does that lag time at cooler temperatures impart different flavors that if it were 10 degrees warmer?

ChshreCat - did you have delays in fermentation start? Does higher gravity wort take longer to start vs. lower gravity?
 

ChshreCat

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My beers have always started within 24 hours. If I'm pitching straight into the wort, I always make sure to aerate the crap out of it.

Gravity won't affect the lag time so much as underpitching on a higher gravity wort can cause you problems later such as a stuck fermentation. Good aeration can help with this, but nothing works better than a starter (though I don't really use them, myself) to get good cell counts at the start of fermentation.
 
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ultravista

ultravista

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Just a few hours later, the airlock is going every 2 to 3 seconds and picking up steam.

I'm sure I'll be OK from this point, about 26 hours since pitching.

Next time I'll build a starter.
 
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ultravista

ultravista

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After 48 hours, the fermentation has starting picking up speed. What was 1 gurgle per second this morning with little or no krausen is now 2 gurgles per second with a near 1/2 inch krausen.

It looks things are where they should be.

Considering the temperature, how much different would +10 degrees be? In other words, would fermentation have acellerated if warmer or is the slow response only attributed to under pitching?

Does Pacman build at lot of krausen @ 60 degrees? Does temperature even matter with an Ale yeast in regards to krausen?
 

Grasslands

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FWIW, my first go w/Pacman has been similar to ultra's experience so far - but I made a starter - the only thing I (regretably) didn't do was wait for the smack pack to fully swell before putting it on the stirplate.

I made a 10g batch and pitched US05 in one and the Pacman starter in the other - the US05 took right off, while the Pacman hasn't gotten up to speed yet.
 

SickTransitMundus

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I usually see krausen within 24 hours with Pacman, but I pitch big starters into well-oxygenated wort. I usually recommend fermenting pacman @ 60F, but your higher temps will help you get better attenuation since you underpitched.
 

Grasslands

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Update from previous post - finally some krauzen is starting to build after 24 hours. I'm guessing I should've given it more time on the stirplate to re-activate the old yeast.

I'm fermenting at 60-62.
 
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