How is this crush?

[hilljack13]

Is this too fine? Still trying to get the right spot on the Spike mill. I have to use my brew bag to keep clumps of grain out of the wort.

 

[day_trippr]

Looks good from here!

Cheers!

 

[hilljack13]

Thanks. Was a good brew day all around until the garden hose shot off from the chiller and started whiplashing around the garage...fun times

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Thanks. Was a good brew day all around until the garden hose shot off from the chiller and started whiplashing around the garage...fun times

I feel like I've read a similar post somewhere ... anyway, crush looks good to me also, I use the ss brewtech version of the mill you have and my crush looks similar.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

The "correct" crush is going to depend on your equipment and process. If you are going full BIAB, then you can crush fine to help with efficiency. If you are doing a fly sparge process, then you want a more coarse crush to set a filter bed, so crush just fine enough to avoid getting a stuck mash. If batch sparging or one of the all-in-one systems with a malt pipe, go somewhere in-between.

I don't see any whole grains in your crush, so that is good.

 

[Deadalus]

@hilljack13 What did you have that set to?

 

[hilljack13]

@hilljack13 What did you have that set to?

Spike mill at .040 and the last bit I went
.045

 

[bike2brew]

.040 is my standard crush w/ 69% efficency last brew. Some may want higher %'s but I'm not commercial, I am in the ballpark on gravity, and the beer tastes good so I don't sweat it.

 

[hilljack13]

.040 is my standard crush w/ 69% efficency last brew. Some may want higher %'s but I'm not commercial, I am in the ballpark on gravity, and the beer tastes good so I don't sweat it.

I must be doing something different because, according to the GF app calculation, my efficiency was 73% brewhouse and 77 mash. I am at least seeing some consistency on those numbers.

 

[bike2brew]

Better technique? I'm still finding my way with all grain brewing and using the svbs system. I'm up 10% from where I started so I'm pleased with the progress. Brewing today so hoping to stay consistent.

 

[beren]

Is this too fine? Still trying to get the right spot on the Spike mill. I have to use my brew bag to keep clumps of grain out of the wort.

View attachment 860610

I crush 0.030 for a batch sparge. No stuck sparges and like 73% eff.

 

[IslandLizard]

Spike mill at .040 and the last bit I went
.045

As @CascadesBrewer said, it depends on your mash/lauter system. With a BIAB system you can crush quite a bit tighter, as the bag is your (very fine) filter. Adding a dunk sparge should add a few extra points to your wort.

I crush 0.030 for a batch sparge.

Similar to mine, but I do adjust the gap for the malt size, typically once per milling session:

0.034" (credit card thickness) for regular (barley) malt.
0.025" (American Express junk mail card) for small kernel malt (e.g., wheat, rye), and all flaked adjuncts.
0.015-0.019" (gauge) for malted oats and other very small kernel malt.

This on a 2-roller Monster Mill (MM2) with 1.5" diameter rollers, at ~152 rpm. That's the recommended speed for those based on a linear speed of 12"/sec.

No stuck sparges and like 73% eff.

Using a converted cooler mash tun, I enjoy 85-87% mash efficiency at 1.5 qt/lb followed by 2 equal volume batch sparges, fully drained before, and thoroughly stirred after each water addition.

 

[beren]

Very nice. Only 2 batches on this mill, it’s much different than my old barley crusher.

 

[Deadalus]

Two things to note on the Spike Mill:

• Offset Driven Rollers: The rollers are turned at different speeds (1.3:1) as this helps to shear the grain husk rather than crushing it and producing excess flour and dust.
• Hardened Steel Rollers: With the expertise of Briess Malt behind us, our team developed hardened 1144 steel (Rockwell 45C) rollers featuring a unique helical machined flute design which delivers the best crush available

Reviews I've read so far indicate that people are using slightly wider gaps as indicated on the dial for their Spike mill (0.040 is commonly mentioned). On my Barley Crusher, I'd need a gap set at probably 0.030 (0.028-0.032) and conditioned grain to match what @hilljack13 posted originally.

So if commenting in this thread about gap sizes, please indicate your mill for clarity. Other details such as if BIAB are also helpful.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

• Offset Driven Rollers: The rollers are turned at different speeds (1.3:1) as this helps to shear the grain husk rather than crushing it and producing excess flour and dust.

Interesting. I noticed in the first picture that many of the grain husks looked more torn than just crushed. I was not sure if this was a good or bad thing, but it sounds like it is a goal.

 

[MicroMickey]

My opinion, for what it's worth - there's been far too much emphasis on crush. If you turn your malt into flour, you'll get greater conversion but you might not be able to retrieve the good stuff from the mash; a major problem for the lauter. At the other extreme, if you don't crush, your conversion may be close to nil. The old "standard" was to crush to the point of breaking the malted kernel into about 5 pieces without shredding the husk.

If you're using a two or three roll mill, roller speed can make quite a bit of difference in the crush. At any particular gap setting of the rollers, hand cranking results in a much different crush than running the mill at 200 rpm with a motor.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you turn your malt into flour, you'll get greater conversion but you might not be able to retrieve the good stuff from the mash; a major problem for the lauter.

With "the good stuff" do you mean the runnings from the fly sparge?

Most homebrewers don't use a (3 vessel system) fly sparge, and simply do 1 or 2 batch sparges (separate mash tun) or one dunk sparge (BIAB).

 

[MicroMickey]

Yeah, "good stuff" is the yield from the mash tun; the sugary runnings. It doesn't have to be a fly sparge. Some batch sparge and others do the "no sparge" routine without the sparge water rinse. The most dramatic way I've improved my brewhouse efficiency is to collect and sparge SLOWLY. I remind myself on every brew day that this isn't a foot race; I'm here to make a better beer than I can buy.

 

[day_trippr]

The most dramatic way I've improved my brewhouse efficiency is to collect and sparge SLOWLY.

I fly sparge 10 gallon batches and absolutely see higher yields if I stick to the quart per minute runoff rate...

Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

Interesting. I noticed in the first picture that many of the grain husks looked more torn than just crushed. I was not sure if this was a good or bad thing, but it sounds like it is a goal.

I don't think shredding husks is a good thing. Shear as the grain gets crushed, is what tends to shred the husks. I have a geared roller mill w/1:1 gear ratio, so there is almost no shear going thru the rollers. I can crush at a roller spacing of 0.022" and get almost all intact husks. Not sure why Spike would design a mill that purposely shears the kernels and shreds husks.

If anyone has any links to published work on shredded vs. intact husks affect on lautering, I would be very interested.

Brew on

 

[day_trippr]

There are a couple of high end mills with different drive rpms between rollers - and I also was/am skeptical that it made sense. Grain passing through a pair of rollers running at the same RPM doesn't experience much "shear", just compression - the "crush" - which seems to me to be the optimal approach. It's similar to the difference between roller mills and disc mills like the classic "corona" mills - the latter of which tend to make chaff bits out of husks...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

The most dramatic way I've improved my brewhouse efficiency is to collect and sparge SLOWLY.

Proper fly sparging hinges on a slow drain, as it does on a slow matching supply on top, to keep the water column intact.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

There are a couple of high end mills with different drive rpms between rollers - and I also was/am skeptical that it made sense. Grain passing through a pair of rollers running at the same RPM doesn't experience much "shear", just compression - the "crush" - which seems to me to be the optimal approach. It's similar to the difference between roller mills and disc mills like the classic "corona" mills - the latter of which tend to make chaff bits out of husks...

Cheers!

When I started all grain brewing, I already owned a Corona mill, so I used it. I adjusted it down to where I saw no more whole grains; then a little more. At first, I was concerned that I might end up with a stuck sparge. A couple years in, I got one with an oatmeal stout; I blame the oatmeal, even though I didn’t run it through the mill. It was not too difficult to fix, just stuck my long spoon in and worked it around a little.
I have always hit my initial OG with any recipe that I have tried, so I don’t mess with it. I picked up a Barley Crusher in a bulk Craigslist buy, but haven’t even tried it yet because this works.

Yeah, my husks look torn, but….

 

[ITV]

I don't think shredding husks is a good thing. Shear as the grain gets crushed, is what tends to shred the husks. I have a geared roller mill w/1:1 gear ratio, so there is almost no shear going thru the rollers. I can crush at a roller spacing of 0.022" and get almost all intact husks. Not sure why Spike would design a mill that purposely shears the kernels and shreds husks.

If anyone has any links to published work on shredded vs. intact husks affect on lautering, I would be very interested.

Brew on

My guess is that Spike is marketing the BIAB homebrewer as to why they went with shredding the husks.
I still use my 3-roller (non-geared) mill for my fly sparging method of brewing. I am leary about geared roller mills for fear of a non crushable object (small pebble) getting through and causing havoc. Hopfully your mill is equipped with a shear pin or other method to avoid damage to the mill if a non crushable object gets through.

 

[doug293cz]

My guess is that Spike is marketing the BIAB homebrewer as to why they went with shredding the husks.
I still use my 3-roller (non-geared) mill for my fly sparging method of brewing. I am leary about geared roller mills for fear of a non crushable object (small pebble) getting through and causing havoc. Hopfully your mill is equipped with a shear pin or other method to avoid damage to the mill if a non crushable object gets through.

My mill motor seems to be torque limited in some way. I got a cleaning brush caught in the rollers, and it did stop before any damage was done to the rollers or other mill parts. The brush wasn't so fortunate.

Brew on

 

[Dog House Brew]

My monster mm3 tried to eat one of the bolts that rattled loose. No problem, mashed it thinking the shrapnel would sink.

 

[Dog House Brew]

My monster mm3 tried to eat one of the bolts that rattled loose. No problem, mashed it thinking the shrapnel would sink.

I guess another plus for lining the tun with a Wilser bag, aye? I never thought one of those hopper bolts would vibrate loose. That hopper will get tack welds and I’ll ditch those bolts. Guess Loctite should have been in the assembly schematic.

 

[Dog House Brew]

One of these

 

[day_trippr]

Nylocs FTW...

 

[DuncB]

Or any other 6 letter acronym?