How important is clear beer to you?

Yakima 728
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could care less. and anyways, after a week in keg/bottle, it clears up pretty good anyways. Then you get some dregs in your bottles too, if you like harvesting yeast. Just gives me another thing to do when im waiting to brew again :)
 
kombat said:
Yes, absolutely. Are you suggesting that yeast does not impart any perceptible flavour to a beer?
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Are you suggesting that yeast is the only thing that causes haze?

A quick comment about style: It's hard to create something unique when you lock yourself into thinking that the style of the beer is more important than the beer itself. For me, taste before anything else.
 
kombat said:
Yes, of course.

The "process" consists of all of the steps you undertake in order to make the desired beer. For some, their goal is to make a beer that conforms as closely as possible to a particular style. If the style guidelines prescribe crystal clarity, then Whirlfloc and gelatin are two good steps in order to achieve that clarity.
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Can you make clear beer without using either of those products? If the answer is yes, then why use them? If the answer is no, then can you really claim your process if good?
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
Can you make clear beer without using either of those products? If the answer is yes, then why use them? If the answer is no, then can you really claim your process if good?
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Well, that's sort of a troll-ish question, isn't it?

I can make clear beer without using any products- but the whirlfloc means it happens quicker and faster. Does that mean I suck as a brewer, or don't have good process?

I would like to think my beers don't suck, and when I brew to style and win a competition, I think my BJCP friends may agree.

Like I said, I never use isinglass or polyclar or gelatin, as I want a vegetarian (and plastic-free) beer. But it is wrong to use it? I don't think so.

Just like I choose to not eat wheat products or add shellfish bladders to my beer, I think we can all make those choices for ourselves without judgement.
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
Are you suggesting that yeast is the only thing that causes haze?

A quick comment about style: It's hard to create something unique when you lock yourself into thinking that the style of the beer is more important than the beer itself. For me, taste before anything else.
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Yeast is one of the main things that can create haze, certainly not the only thing, but many non-flocculant yeast strains do indeed cause haze and there is a flavor impact.

Other things, like chill haze, are about colloidal instability and may create flavor issues as well.
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
Can you make clear beer without using either of those products? If the answer is yes, then why use them? If the answer is no, then can you really claim your process if good?
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Why not use them? It's a cheap step that helps make sure your beer turns out how you want. It doesn't add anything extra to your brew day, and that along with good procedure will assure your beer is clear.
 
Yooper said:
Well, that's sort of a troll-ish question, isn't it?

I can make clear beer without using any products- but the whirlfloc means it happens quicker and faster. Does that mean I suck as a brewer, or don't have good process?
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Not trolling at all. It was an honest question. Obviously you don't suck since you can make clear beer without using those products. Furthermore, I like quite a few of the recipes you've posted and have one of them on my 'to do' list in the near future.

The thing is, I used to care about getting clear beer too. I'd add Irish moss and even occasionally gelatin too... and my beer was clear. Then I stopped caring so much about it and stopped using any fining agents at all... and my beer is still clear.
 
BrewingTravisty said:
Why not use them? It's a cheap step that helps make sure your beer turns out how you want. It doesn't add anything extra to your brew day, and that along with good procedure will assure your beer is clear.
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But if you don't need it then why use it? It's like an athlete winning a race while using steriods and then claiming he doesn't need steriods to win a race.
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
Not trolling at all. It was an honest question. Obviously you don't suck since you can make clear beer without using those products. Furthermore, I like quite a few of the recipes you've posted and have one of them on my 'to do' list in the near future.

The thing is, I used to care about getting clear beer too. I'd add Irish moss and even occasionally gelatin too... and my beer was clear. Then I stopped caring so much about it and stopped using any fining agents at all... and my beer is still clear.
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It's called being efficient. You may produce clear beer, but with those products, you could do it faster - if you wanted to. Some yeasts take quite a bit of time before dropping clear on their own. If people don't prefer the flavor of yeast in suspension, but don't want to wait for the yeast to drop on its own, why fault them for using a more efficient process? If the end result is the same, and one process gets you to the end result quicker (and basically costs nothing), then why not employ that process into your brewing style?

Do you cold crash? If so, according to your logic, it's a poor process, because it's cutting corners. I wouldn't doubt that a lot of very popular craft breweries use clearing agents and cold crashing (if they don't just simply filter it) in order to obtain clear beer quicker. Are you going to say that there's something wrong with their process?
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
But if you don't need it then why use it? It's like an athlete winning a race while using steriods and then claiming he doesn't need steriods to win a race.
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That's a terrible analogy. I can get clear beer without fining agents, the fining agents do 2 things though, 1) it clears my beer quicker and 2) it gives me assurance. Sure, it's not absolutely necessary but at the same time, it's a tool that helps me achieve a goal and it costs next to nothing per brew.

There a plenty of very good, very experienced and even professional brewers that use fining agents, are you insinuating that their process is lacking?
 
Do I cold crash? I used to, when I cared about clear beer.

As I said before, I stopped caring about taking extra steps to get clear beer. It's not important to me... Does that mean the beer I make isn't clear? Not at all, basically nothing has changed since I stopped taking the extra steps to get clear beer.
 
Good on you! So, is there any real reason to try to brow-beat others that do use these fining agents?
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
I've recently lost the urge to spend any time trying to clear my beer.
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Your original post states that you did try to clear your beer in the past. Trying implies an effort was needed to clear your beers. I read from this that you no longer see merit in this effort and accept less clear beer.

ShizuokaBrad said:
nothing has changed since I stopped taking the extra steps to get clear beer.
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This implies the beer is the same clarity as always. Your efforts to add clarity/remove haze were not needed or were unsuccessful. You no longer see merit to those efforts/steps/materials.


There is a bit of a disconnect in these two statements. I don't follow your train of thought.

It seems you were trying to say.

I see no difference in the excellent clarity of my beer regardless of what steps I take and/or finings I use. I no longer use finings or cold crash as I see no benefit to their use. Does anyone else feel the same.



That is not how most responders, myself included seem to have interpreted your OP. I'm sure you can understand the confusion. I don't see the point of your thread.
 
Gavin C said:
Your original post states that you did try to clear your beer in the past. Trying implies an effort was needed to clear your beers. I read from this that you no longer see merit in this effort and accept less clear beer.



This implies the beer is the same clarity as always. Your efforts to add clarity/remove haze were not needed or were unsuccessful. You no longer see merit to those efforts/steps/materials.


There is a bit of a disconnect in these two statements. I don't follow your train of thought.

It seems you were trying to say.

I see no difference in the excellent clarity of my beer regardless of what steps I take and/or finings I use. I no longer use finings or cold crash as I see no benefit to their use. Does anyone else feel the same.



That is not how most responders, myself included seem to have interpreted your OP. I'm sure you can understand the confusion. I don't see the point of your thread.
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OOOhhhhh, I didn't even realize this was the thread creator.

Now it reminds me of another very eerily similar thread in which the thread creator posed a question, but in reality only wanted to prove how much better of a brewer he/she was than everybody else.

Now it all makes sense. I retract all of my former comments.
 
joshesmusica said:
OOOhhhhh, I didn't even realize this was the thread creator.

Now it reminds me of another very eerily similar thread in which the thread creator posed a question, but in reality only wanted to prove how much better of a brewer he/she was than everybody else.

Now it all makes sense. I retract all of my former comments.
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And this reminds me of pretty much every thread on every forum where someone doesn't agree with an opinion but has nothing to contribute so they go after the poster instead.
 
I am completely the opposite. Crystal clear beer is the sign of a solid process in most styles and is how I like it. In fact I can't make a cloudy beer for the life of me anymore.

But if you like it, then whenever.
 
Well, to put it another way, once you get used to the parts of your process that give clear beers, the effort seems minimal. One of the joys of home brewing...:tank:
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
Can you make clear beer without using either of those products?
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Yes, of course.

ShizuokaBrad said:
If the answer is yes, then why use them?
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Because the "other ways" of getting clear beer are things like:


  • Choosing a highly-flocculant yeast strain - This obviously changes the recipe, and will alter the flavour of the resulting beer.
  • Filtering - This requires additional equipment, and risks oxidizing or contaminating the beer. It can be more expensive as it requires CO2 (at least the usual home setup does).
  • Time - Given enough time, most sediment will drop out on its own. But maybe you don't want to wait 8 months to enjoy your beer. Also doesn't resolve chill haze.
  • Cold-crashing - Usually works quite well. But requires a dedicated chilling space large enough to hold the fermenter. Again, it comes down to cost.
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
The thing is, I used to care about getting clear beer too. I'd add Irish moss and even occasionally gelatin too... and my beer was clear. Then I stopped caring so much about it and stopped using any fining agents at all... and my beer is still clear.
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What's your point? That Irish moss/Whirlfloc and gelatin don't actually do anything, and incredibly, nobody noticed until you came in and enlightened us? We've all been hoodwinked by Big Gelatin?
 
ShizuokaBrad said:
The thing is, I used to care about getting clear beer too. I'd add Irish moss and even occasionally gelatin too... and my beer was clear. Then I stopped caring so much about it and stopped using any fining agents at all... and my beer is still clear.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I call total BS. Your first post was exactly, "I've recently lost the urge to spend any time whatsoever trying to clear my beer. I just don't care any more. Anyone else out there like me?"

You said "trying" which means you were making attempts to clear beer that is not clear by default. Then you turn around and say the above. Well if your beers came out clear before bothering to "try" using fining agents or processes to clear them why would you have tried them at all, since it wasn't even necessary in the first place according to you?

You should've just left it alone. OK fine, you can't get your beers clear and have given up bothering to try cause you don't really think it's worth the effort anymore.


Rev.
 
MaddBaggins said:
Just pulled this from the tap. Home brewed ESB. Irish Moss at the end of boil. No filtering. It wasn't this clear to start, took a couple weeks on tap before it got this way.
This is how most of my beers look most of the time.

View attachment 321945
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If that's not condensation on the glass, you should've used gelatin too! Takes 5 minutes, and it's sparkling clear!
 
joshesmusica said:
If that's not condensation on the glass, you should've used gelatin too! Takes 5 minutes, and it's sparkling clear!
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Thats a little bit of condensate on the glass, but if my beers look like that, I'm all good. I don't need any better than that. Plus, I would rather avoid any further additions and keep the gelatin out of it.
My first post in this thread mentioned a dirty @ss peach/brett beer. I should pour a glass and snap a pic of that one. Tastes delicious, looks like dishwater. It's the worst looking beer I've ever done, 6 months in the keg and it isn't any better.
 
I surely care about how clear my beers are because the perception of how it is going to taste is half of the battle....just like a chef making sure his plate of food is as visually appealing as possible while still maintaining and communicating the flavor of the dish. I find that every stage of the brewing process is an opportunity to improve your beer however you can and clarity is one of aspects I like to make a priority. I brew mostly pale ales, IPA's, Kolsch style beer and pale lagers and I can tell you without question that my beers are more well recieved by myself and my friends when they are clear. Is this reality or perception I dont know.

In the kolsch pictured below, that I am drinking right now, as the beer clears the beer becomes less "muddled" and the hops, malt and carbonation all seem more focused and distinguishable.


Yummy three week old kolsch


View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1449892843.556061.jpg
 
BrewingTravisty said:
This was basically my brothers reaction when he first tried one of my homebrews. He looked a little worried before he took a sip, and then his face lit up with surprise and said "wow, this is actually good! I thought homebrew was always crap alcoholics make to get drunk cheap!"
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I think we've all had that friend. I know I've got more than one of that mindset and before trying my beer they gave me the whole "social obligation look" before actually going back for seconds.
ShizuokaBrad said:
There's a massive difference between clear beer, unclear (hazy), and beer with trub/crap floating in it. When I posted my question I was referring to clear beer vs. hazy beer.
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Problem is - especially for those who share with non-craft drinkers is that they see "haze = yeast = weird **** I don't like." We all get tired of explaining what chill haze is. And since many people fall victim to the visual tasting first, they opinions may be skewed.

I don't mind beer that has some chill / wheat haze. Hefeweizen of course should have yeast floating around in it. Even if I get lazy or rush a batch and end up with some yeast in suspension, I don't care a whole lot. I had one batch in my earlier days that an underpitch came close to wrecking - that was horrid until perfectly clear. Then it was tolerable. Aside from that, I don't care too much personally.
 
Zepth said:
I think we've all had that friend. I know I've got more than one of that mindset and before trying my beer they gave me the whole "social obligation look" before actually going back for seconds.


Problem is - especially for those who share with non-craft drinkers is that they see "haze = yeast = weird **** I don't like." We all get tired of explaining what chill haze is. And since many people fall victim to the visual tasting first, they opinions may be skewed.

I don't mind beer that has some chill / wheat haze. Hefeweizen of course should have yeast floating around in it. Even if I get lazy or rush a batch and end up with some yeast in suspension, I don't care a whole lot. I had one batch in my earlier days that an underpitch came close to wrecking - that was horrid until perfectly clear. Then it was tolerable. Aside from that, I don't care too much personally.
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Most of my friends thought I was turning into an alcoholic when I started brewing lol most of them realize now that I just found something that I really enjoy and can be passionate about.


And as far as beer being clear, I usually know when to expect my beer to come out a little hazy. It's when I take shortcuts brewing and am being lazy lol but I know when I'm doing that that I'm not going to get a perfectly clear beer. Or of course in styles that call for hazy or cloudy like my hefeweizen I'm brewing right now. I only care if my beer is clear if I'm putting the extra effort into making it clear and it's hazy lol then I'm a bit disappointed.
 
jignj said:
I've recently lost the urge to spend any time whatsoever trying to clear my beer. I just don't care any more. Anyone else out there like me?
1xo07

1wz2k
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I wonder if any of use stated this in the thread?
 
I started cold-crashing and gelatin fining every batch I made as soon as I have the capability to control temperatures.

In most beer styles, having yeast in suspension is a flaw and introduces flavors that aren't supposed to be there. Now, I could wait longer and eventually the yeast will drop on it's own, but nuts to that as I have technology. Also, that won't do a damn thing to help chill haze. Cold crashing and fining lets me get a batch on draft a lot quicker and clearer than otherwise possible. I also don't like putting a bunch of sediment in my keg either, so if I have to swap a keg out or move it around I don't get a few glasses of mud.

The other angle is presentation. When I pour a pint from my kegerator for a guest, they get to see a commercially clear beer that looks appealing, not a muddy glass full of what looks like water from a nearby lake that they're hesitant to drink.

At the end of the day, it only takes a few more minutes and a negligible expense to produce a product that rivals what the 'pro' brewers are doing, and it lets me get a beer on draft that's fresher and will store better.
 
Ive only made a couple of beers but my way of thinking is I don't care. Beer is beer. Taste is all i care about.
 
MaddBaggins said:
Here's the peach Brett beer I made with WLP648. This has been in the fridge in a keg since May. I didn't do any thing different in my process than any other beer. It just refuses to clear up.
It's delicious though and after looking back at 648 it is a low flocc yeast.
Kegs almost empty so it is what it is.

View attachment 322464
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Wow that is cloudy lol I've got a red ale that's really hazy, but i think it has something to do with the fact that I ran out of propane mid boil haha
 
I think everyone who doesn't make beer so clear that you can take a vision test from 20 feet away and pass easily should just go ahead and commit seppuku. I mean, if you can't do that is there really any point in even brewing....?
 

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