How important is clear beer to you?

[BigMack]

Just a tip for everyone, your beer will be crystal clear if you sacrifice a goat to Ninkasi every time you brew.

 

[unionrdr]

And whatever Ninkasi doesn't finish, we can enjoy with a home brew.

 

[Rev2010]

Just a tip for everyone, your beer will be crystal clear if you sacrifice a goat to Ninkasi every time you brew.

Gelatin is far cheaper than a goat


Rev.

 

[govner1]

If you're going to take the time to make good beer, why not make clear beer (per style). It may take a little longer but why not make the best finished product you can?
If all you're after is alcohol, go for it!

 

[TheMadKing]

If it's a pilsner, alt, or a kolsch, it's pretty important, anything else, nope. I care more about flavor, and I think a hazy amber ale, brown ale, IPA, etc has a certain charm. That being said, I don't usually suffer from a cloudy beer problem, and for the record I don't whirlpool, I dump my entire kettle into the fermenter, I BIAB so no vorlaufing, I don't use irish moss/whirlfloc, and I chill fairly slowly. No idea what really makes clear beer, but it's none of those things in my experience.

 

[unionrdr]

I've gotten clear beer with nothing but patience & a good process myself. Other times, Whirlfloc does the job nicely.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

If it's a pilsner, alt, or a kolsch, it's pretty important.

Interesting that you included Alt...I found about half of them to suspended yeast or some other haze (potentially a reaction witht he apple pectin?) the last time I was in Dusseldorf. And trust me, we tried plenty as we attempted to have one beer in every bar on the left side of the street...through the Alt Stadt center (do NOT try this).

 

[Onkel_Udo]

It may take a little longer but why not make the best finished product you can?

Because some of us think style is for chumps and posers :rockin: (totally tongue in cheek)! Seriously though, I really do not brew to style. I use a style I like as a guide to the (basic) ingredients I need and just go from there.

It is the same argument as all bottles must be de-label and the same style with custom printed labels. To some, this point presentation is important. To some it is not. My bottles are mostly de-labeled (I was bored and drunk one snowy night), are all brown (different shades and shapes) and just have a code on the cap.

A couple guys got indignant when said it was totally unimportant and does not reflect badly on the brewer as lazy, inattentive or sloppy in his process. My example of presentation being low on the list in lots of areas of great taste was...BBQ...best pulled pork sandwich most folks have ever had likely came in paper boat or on cheap paper plate. Ribs...likely came on a paper plate half the size it needed to be with a pepper, slice of onion and a piece of white bread most adults would not be caught dead eating anywhere else.

 

[Gavin C]

Alt...I found about half of them to suspended yeast or some other haze (potentially a reaction witht he apple pectin?) the last time I was in Dusseldorf. .

Apple in an Alt? That's new to me.

German breweries are pretty restricted in allowed ingredients even for top fermented ales like an Alt. Not quite as restricted as with lager but apples or any part of them do not feature.

Alt should be crystal clear if it is to style.

www.germanbeerinstitute.com/altbier.html

 

[filthyastronaut]

Like most people I prefer whatever is appropriate to the style. I do really enjoy the feeling of drinking a crystal clear beer that I made, and it gives others a perception of legitimacy if I serve them a really pretty beer.

I have noticed flavor and aroma differences between a carefully poured, clear beer and a beer with the sediment dumped in. There's no rule about which is better though, and I think it depends entirely on the specific beer it is, not even the style. My IPAs will often have a brighter aroma with the sediment, but the flavor becomes harsher because of the added hop debris. And sometimes, the added hop aroma may be unwelcome if I was intending a stronger malt presence. I have a Brown Ale that tastes sort of funny with the yeast poured in, and I had a wheat that was kind of thin without it. It all depends.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Apple in an Alt? That's new to me.

German breweries are pretty restricted in allowed ingredients even for top fermented ales like an Alt. Not quite as restricted as with lager but apples or any part of them do not feature.

Alt should be crystal clear if it is to style.

www.germanbeerinstitute.com/altbier.html

It is not an ingredient in the beer, it was the regional version of lime for your Corona...Dusseldorf itself did it less than the outlying communities, but apple chunks floating the beer was totally normal and the default at many locals.

 

[Gavin C]

It is not an ingredient in the beer, it was the regional version of lime for your Corona...Dusseldorf itself did it less than the outlying communities, but apple chunks floating the beer was totally normal and the default at many locals.

Gotcha.

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that Altbier itself was a cloudy beer owing to apples in the brewing process.

So that would be crystal clear altbier + apples = cloudy apple altbier.

I still think a prior poster citing Alt as an example of a cystal clear style is entirely correct though. Wouldn't you aggree?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I still think a prior poster citing Alt as an example of a cystal clear style is entirely correct though. Wouldn't you aggree?

Very possibly just because it is a distant enough memory I cannot separate if only the ones with a chunk or two of apple were cloudy or not. Having not had the authentic version, on tap since 1998, it is likely.

It was without a doubt my favorite style when I lived in Nordrhein-Westfalen (Arnsberg to be exact).

 

[Clonefan94]

Personally, clear beer isn't important to me. I have found it to be helpful to have clear beer though if you have people who are leery of trying homebrew for the first time or just aren't experienced craft beer drinkers.

I find that whirlflock in the boil, a good cold crash before kegging, then just letting it sit a week or so gives me pretty clear beer that goes crystal clear after about 2 weeks on tap.

I think kegging is a big help in clarity though, it's easy to mix that sediment up in a bottle, no matter how careful you are.

 

[Devon]

While it's not particularly important to me, it's cool to have another aspect of the process under my control. I may not do it every batch, but it's nice to know I can if I want to.

 

[BrewingTravisty]

I never go out of my way to get a clear beer, I don't cold crash or use anything besides a sprinkle of Irish moss towards the end of the boil. All of my beers so far have turned out Crystal clear, besides a couple wheat beers. Even beers that have gone 2 weeks grain to glass, bottle conditioned, generally come out clear. Though they sometimes have a slight haze that clears up with an extra week. Getting a clear beer isn't that difficult, really.

But to answer the original question, it's not super important to me. I'll never go out of my way to achieve it, but at the same time it is a good feeling when you pour a beer and it's a sparkling clear beer.

 

[Yooper]

If you're going to take the time to make good beer, why not make clear beer (per style). It may take a little longer but why not make the best finished product you can?
If all you're after is alcohol, go for it!

It's important to me. I don't like going out to a restaurant and having a pile of food glopped onto my place, and I don't like a murky beer. It's not hard to make the food on the plate appealing, and it's not hard to make a clear beer.

I don't use finings like gelatin (I want a vegetarian friendly beer), but it's still really easy to make a clear beer and takes no extra time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/clear-wort-clear-beer.html

 

[BrewingTravisty]

It's important to me. I don't like going out to a restaurant and having a pile of food glopped onto my place, and I don't like a murky beer. It's not hard to make the food on the plate appealing, and it's not hard to make a clear beer.

I don't use finings like gelatin (I want a vegetarian friendly beer), but it's still really easy to make a clear beer and takes no extra time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/clear-wort-clear-beer.html

The only finings I really use is Irish Moss. My beers all come out clear, except some of my wheat beers that aren't meant to be clear. There's nothing better than pouring a beer into a glass and it coming out crystal clear.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I like a reasonable clarity but I don't use any additives other than Irish Moss at the end of boil.
That being said, I'm always super proud when a beer comes out crystal clear. I'm also bummed when they're cloudy but enjoy them nonetheless.

Earlier this year I did a peach brew using WLP648. I still have it in a keg and it is still the dirtiest looking beer I have ever made. I kegged it in June. It tastes great but the look turns me off to it a bit. That stuff refuses to drop out. It is a filthy looking beer.

So, in a nutshell, clarity matter to me, but only a little.

 

[Iceman6409]

Personally I don't care at all. To me it is all about the taste. I am a bottler right now and give almost all of mine away but no one cares in my world. However I do see the importance of it if you are entering into a competition or something like that. In the end it is all up to the brewer. Each way is just fine.

 

[unionrdr]

I think they definitely taste better clear than with trub & yeast floating around in it.

 

[mattdee1]

Yeah, so far I just haven't found myself caring about the beer being clear. If I ever get around to trying to make a lager, I might care then, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I definitely "get" the idea of clear beer being a more approachable look for people who don't typically drink homebrew or craft beer, but I think that if they are so sure of what beer is "supposed" to look like that a little bit of haze will make them shun a beer, then they are beyond help anyway.

 

[slym2none]

I only cold-crash, and most of my light beers come out pretty dang clear. Not as clear as what I've seen gelatin do, but still clear enough to read through. I'm happy with that.

Do I really care? A little...but really, as long as it tastes good, I'm good.

 

[GHBWNY]

I definitely "get" the idea of clear beer being a more approachable look for people who don't typically drink homebrew or craft beer, but I think that if they are so sure of what beer is "supposed" to look like that a little bit of haze will make them shun a beer, then they are beyond help anyway.

Blue Moon is a favorite with some of my non-HB-drinking friends. They've come to accept the hazy appearance. But "hazy" and "crap sitting on the bottom" are certainly two different levels of visual appeal.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I always strive to make clear beer. Yeast and trub in the keg/bottles can alter the taste of the beer quite a bit. I make sure my water has a good amount of calcium (80+ ppm), select a flocculent yeast strain like Wyeast 1335, 1272, or 1099 or White Labs WLP007, and cold crash. My beers usually all come out pretty damn clear. If I'm in a hurry to keg it, gelatin does wonders.

 

[bucfan1234]

I like clear beer. They are clear when I keg them, but sometimes I get what I think is chill haze when they go in the kegerator.

Rolling boil, wort chiller and still sometimes a batch will haze. Usually an extract batch.

Sometimes, I forget the irish moss, and that is on me.

Past that, I am not sure how to get rid of it.

 

[Kent88]

Unless I plan on giving a majority of it away (or maybe I'll enter some in a contest one day) I don't care about clarity. Taste is tops, but I do feel better when I can mostly see through a good tasting beer, it makes me feel like I'm doing a better job brewing.

Although most of my beers lately have been inky black stouts, and when I make one of those I love not being able to detect light through it.

 

[Brewernaut51]

When my beer comes out really clear - which is most of the time - I am happy and say "look at how clear it is! Tastes great!".

But it when the result is not clear i am happy and say "whatever, tastes great!"

That's how I feel in a nutshell. When I pull a draft and it comes out clear I do get a little sense of pride. If not I just shrug my shoulders and enjoy it anyway.

I've never had anyone complain about cloudy beer before though. Craft beer newbs are usually so mystified by homebrew they don't even know if it's supposed to be clear or not.

 

[mattdee1]

That's how I feel in a nutshell. When I pull a draft and it comes out clear I do get a little sense of pride. If not I just shrug my shoulders and enjoy it anyway.

I've never had anyone complain about cloudy beer before though. Craft beer newbs are usually so mystified by homebrew they don't even know if it's supposed to be clear or not.

In my experience, “mystified by homebrew” is usually an understatement. It’s more like, they know this guy at work, or their uncle Bob, who went to a U-Brew shop and came home with a keg full of a BMC-knockoff called “Cool’s Light” that tasted like complete jizz, but ended up defining for them what “homebrew” tastes like. Heck, after stealing some of my dad’s U-Brew back in the early 90s when I was underage, that’s what I used to think.

 

[BrewingTravisty]

In my experience, “mystified by homebrew” is usually an understatement. It’s more like, they know this guy at work, or their uncle Bob, who went to a U-Brew shop and came home with a keg full of a BMC-knockoff called “Cool’s Light” that tasted like complete jizz, but ended up defining for them what “homebrew” tastes like. Heck, after stealing some of my dad’s U-Brew back in the early 90s when I was underage, that’s what I used to think.

This was basically my brothers reaction when he first tried one of my homebrews. He looked a little worried before he took a sip, and then his face lit up with surprise and said "wow, this is actually good! I thought homebrew was always crap alcoholics make to get drunk cheap!"

 

[Yooper]

This is the beer I want to drink tonight:



Does it taste better than a murky beer? Yes, in some cases it does (depending on what's causing the haze).

It takes 0 work to make a nice looking beer- so why wouldn't you? I don't get that. I spend a lot of time and energy to make a great tasting beer, so why not enjoy it looking nice as well?

 

[ShizuokaBrad]

There's a massive difference between clear beer, unclear (hazy), and beer with trub/crap floating in it. When I posted my question I was referring to clear beer vs. hazy beer.

Do people really think using things like whirlfloc or gelatin is part of a 'good process'? You can have the worst process in the world and use either of those things to make clear beer.

And for those claiming they can taste the difference between a clear beer and a hazy beer...? LOL... Really?!

 

[BrewingTravisty]

This is the beer I want to drink tonight:

View attachment 321579

Does it taste better than a murky beer? Yes, in some cases it does (depending on what's causing the haze).

It takes 0 work to make a nice looking beer- so why wouldn't you? I don't get that. I spend a lot of time and energy to make a great tasting beer, so why not enjoy it looking nice as well?

I feel like as long as you have a good process, you should end up with a clear beer. So to me, I wouldn't say it's extremely important to have a clear beer as in I spend extra time to get my beer clear. But it is important to me, in that it reinforces the fact that I did a good job on that beer. Now I'm not terribly upset if one of my beers comes out slightly hazy, because it's a learning process. I can usually tell you what I did wrong in that brew that it didn't come out clear and I make sure I fix it the next brew.

So I guess it's both important and not, depending on how you look at it. It's not important in the way that I need the beer to be clear to enjoy it. It is important in the fact that it shows whether or not my processes were on point to a degree.

 

[Gavin C]

Do people really think using things like whirlfloc or gelatin is part of a 'good process'?

They do not equate with good or bad practice IMO. They are simply optional tools some brewers make use of.

Both Irish moss and animal products such as isinglass have been used for centuries by many breweries. They are very much part of mainstream brewing.

Guinness brewery has recently elected to halt it's use of isinglass. I think most folks would recognize Guinness' past 250+years of brewing as probably involving some sound principles.

You can have the worst process in the world and use either of those things to make clear beer.

No. That is not accurate. Both gelatin and Irish moss will augment good process. They will not work effectively with bad methodology and will not correct a variety of haze forming errors.

I want my beers to taste, feel and look the way I want them to. Same applies when I cook food.

I like brewing to style so for me clear bright beer is important. There is no extra labor involved in achieving this goal. I hold homebrew and commercial beers to the same standards. If they are supposed to be clear, they should be regardless of where they were made or on what scale of brewery.

Homebrew Lager

 

[ShizuokaBrad]

They do not equate with good or bad practice IMO. They are simply optional tools some brewers make use of.

Both Irish moss and animal products such as isinglass have been used for centuries by many breweries. They are very much part of mainstream brewing.

Guinness brewery has recently elected to halt it's use of isinglass. I think most folks would recognize Guinness' past 250+years of brewing as probably involving some sound principles.



No. That is not accurate. Both gelatin and Irish moss will augment good process. They will not work effectively with bad methodology and will not correct a variety of haze forming errors.

I want my beers to taste, feel and look the way I want them to. Same applies when I cook food.

I like brewing to style so for me clear bright beer is important. There is no extra labor involved in achieving this goal. I hold homebrew and commercial beers to the same standards. If they are supposed to be clear, they should be regardless of where they were made or on what scale of brewery.

Homebrew LagerView attachment 321619

Pointing to the practices of macrobreweriers as models for good homebrewing doesn't make any sense to me. As far as I know, many commercial breweries use those types of finings because it helps them speed up processing their products for distribution.

 

[Gavin C]

I simply mentioned Guinness as an example to rebut your suggestion that use of these ingredients is not consistent with "good process".

I view using them as neither good nor bad. I view them as normal and mainstream ingredients useful to a wide variety of brewers making a wider variety of beers on any scale, macro to femto.

Are they required? Certainly not.

But the idea that something "craft" or "home-brewed" should qualify itself by having a certain rustic or less polished look, taste or feel to me is complete nonsense.

There is no requirement that one should strive to make clear beer of course. This is a hobby and we all derive enjoyment in differing ways from it. Brew what you want, how you want as often as you want.

But lets call a spade a spade, a hazy beer in a style where this is not appropriate is a flaw. Whether or not one cares about the flaw is up to the individual drinker or the brewer. I guess that's the thrust of the question in post 1.

Me: I care about, flavor, mouthfeel, appearance, head retention, aroma etc.
All very important to me.

 

[unionrdr]

There's a massive difference between clear beer, unclear (hazy), and beer with trub/crap floating in it. When I posted my question I was referring to clear beer vs. hazy beer.

Do people really think using things like whirlfloc or gelatin is part of a 'good process'? You can have the worst process in the world and use either of those things to make clear beer.

And for those claiming they can taste the difference between a clear beer and a hazy beer...? LOL... Really?!

As for myself, I was referring to a beer with trub & yeast still in suspension to whatever degree. I can definitely taste the difference with versus without the trub/yeast. The beer's true flavor is masked by the stuff in suspension. As for a hazy beer, not so much...sometimes a little different flavor, other times, like a heavily dry-hopped IPA, not so much.

I simply mentioned Guinness as an example to rebut your suggestion that use of these ingredients is not consistent with "good process".

I view using them as neither good nor bad. I view them as normal and mainstream ingredients useful to a wide variety of brewers making a wider variety of beers on any scale, macro to femto.

Are they required? Certainly not.

But the idea that something "craft" or "home-brewed" should qualify itself by having a certain rustic or less polished look, taste or feel to me is complete nonsense.

There is no requirement that one should strive to make clear beer of course. This is a hobby and we all derive enjoyment in differing ways from it. Brew what you want, how you want as often as you want.

But lets call a spade a spade, a hazy beer in a style where this is not appropriate is a flaw. Whether or not one cares about the flaw is up to the individual drinker or the brewer. I guess that's the thrust of the question in post 1.

Me: I care about, flavor, mouthfeel, appearance, head retention, aroma etc.
All very important to me.

I must agree with all of this one. If the beer should be clear, & isn't, it's a flaw. Whether you consider this or not is up to you, of course. Some of us just figure it in as part of our process to making a good beer with the flavors intended & a more polished look. Where hop haze can be considered normal in some beers, it may be considered a flaw in others. Like starch haze from incomplete conversion in the mash shining through in the final product. So it comes down to what you care about, & what you don't. That seemed to me to be the gist of it?

 

[kombat]

Do people really think using things like whirlfloc or gelatin is part of a 'good process'?

Yes, of course.

The "process" consists of all of the steps you undertake in order to make the desired beer. For some, their goal is to make a beer that conforms as closely as possible to a particular style. If the style guidelines prescribe crystal clarity, then Whirlfloc and gelatin are two good steps in order to achieve that clarity.

You can have the worst process in the world and use either of those things to make clear beer.

Maybe, but so what? Everything else being equal, the clear beer will score higher than the hazy beer (again, assuming the style dictates a high level of clarity).

And for those claiming they can taste the difference between a clear beer and a hazy beer...? LOL... Really?!

Yes, absolutely. Are you suggesting that yeast does not impart any perceptible flavour to a beer?

 

[GHBWNY]

I like clear beer. They are clear when I keg them, but sometimes I get what I think is chill haze when they go in the kegerator.

Rolling boil, wort chiller and still sometimes a batch will haze. Usually an extract batch.

Sometimes, I forget the irish moss, and that is on me.

Past that, I am not sure how to get rid of it.

Clear when warming up, haze when cold = chill haze. Only a fast cold break will drop those suspended proteins out of suspension. Although finings or gelatin at kegging will help, the cold break is the answer.

 

[bucfan1234]

Thanks. I use a 50' IC and chill to pitching temps in about 20 minutes. Groundwater here seems too warm to do much better than that.

I seem to get the chill haze more in extract batches. My last all grain batch poured clear.

Ironically, I have a wheat beer on tap that is pouring crystal clear too. Who knows. I may give the gelatin a try.