Hot Break- how important to remove?

[kshuler]

HI-

One my second batch of beer right now. Just had some questions about hot break.

The main thing I want to know is-- how important is it to eliminate this? Is it OK to just pass it along to the conical fermentor, let it set a few hours and do a trub dump before adding yeast (or even after)?

Also, I have a homemade hop stopper and a hopback inline before a CFC. I have heard that hops work as a filter for trub, but how much of a filter are they? Is it better to use pellet hops (I have so far always used leaf hops) for filtering out hot break? How much of a difference would a hopback make for filtering break material? Should I recirculate with the pump for some time so things get packed onto the hopstopper and form a more effective barrier before putting the hopback inline?

What about whirlpooling? I don't see myself as being able to do this with my current setup. I love the added hop flavor from the hopback, but is the "Jamilochiller" method really superior... can I get equal hop flavor knowing that my flameout hops will really be essentially 5 minute or 3 minute hops instead of ?

If hot trub removal is very critical, does it make sense for me to buy a "bright tank" type vessel that I pump through the CFC into instead of directly into the fermentor, so I can get a whirlpool going?

And finally, I ordered a plate chiller... I don't get any leaf debris through my setup, but is hot break enough to clog a chiller like this?

Just some questions- I am hoping someone will just say "you're fine" and just dumping trub from the conical should be enough.

Klaus

 

[Nurmey]

You're fine. I dump the whole pot in the fermenter and have done so for years.

 

[brettg20]

I would worry more about the cold break than the hot break.

 

[Nurmey]

Neither hot nor cold break is a problem. It all falls down to the bottom by the time it's ready to bottle.

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

What I read about hot and cold break in that book had me worried to about it for a year or two. Turns out it isn't anything more to worry about than HSA.

 

[Indian_villager]

Oh good I was getting worried about this very issue. I was running around trying to rig window screen to a funnel for this. (my hops are going to be in a muslin bag.)

 

[TotemWolf]

OMG!!!

These goons are fools!!! Your beer is ruined!!! You need to bottle it up and send it to me for proper 'disposal.'

 

[kshuler]

So, basically, it sounds like I don't need to worry too much, right? Just dump out the bottom port after a week or 2 and I should be sittin' pretty? Has anyone ever had problems with hot break clogging their plate chillers as long as there is absolutely no hop particles in it?

I had read a few websites that mention the hot break will impart a nasty flavor to the beer if fermented on it... nobody has experienced this?

Klaus

 

[Airborneguy]

You're fine. I dump the whole pot in the fermenter and have done so for years.

That answered the question perfectly (of course until the second post added the part about cold break and made it even more perfect).

 

[ajf]

Hmm. Second batch of beer, conical, plate chiller, hop stopper, pumps. Looks like you started out in a big way. :rockin:

I have a false bottom in my kettle, and use whole hops. The hops on the false bottom do a pretty good job at filtering out the hot break, and I've never had any problems with clogging except for the one time I forgot to put the false bottom in the kettle.

-a.

 

[jawsbc]

Hot break and cold break do contribute to off flavors in beer, but they would be lower on your list to go after compared to sanitation issues, etc. Many homebrewers never worry about them at all.

It will improve your beers if you eliminate them but, as I mentioned, there are usually a lot of other areas you can work on first. (There is a reason commercial breweries run a whirlpool on their wort to separate the hot &/or cold break from the wort).

 

[kshuler]

Hmm. Second batch of beer, conical, plate chiller, hop stopper, pumps. Looks like you started out in a big way. :rockin:

Yes, I started out with good equipment. Truth be told it is SORT OF my second batch. When I was back in college (seems like in the mid Lincoln administration) I brewed about 8 batches- 2 a year for one of our biology club parties (insert "nerd" smiley here). But that was 16 years ago and I gave all of my stuff away (which was third hand and extremely basic anyway). Now I have a job- just figured I should do things right. And truth be told, I didn't actually LIKE beer in college (I tried it every chance I could get thinking something must be wrong with me- Milwaukee's best, Budweiser, Coor's light, and all the favorite cheap college crap--- no wonder I didn't like it). Now that I both have a job and know what REAL beer can taste like, I figured it would be fun to brew things that I actually enjoyed. A new hobby is born. And the way I am doing it, a new EXPENSIVE hobby is born. I probably would have all grain but I have a 1000 sq ft house and 2 kids- no space.

Good to know that I am good with not removing break material, although the post right before this does say there is SOME contribution to off flavors.

I dumped trub from my conical yesterday- pulled off about 3/4 gallon, let it settle, and that has settled to be about half beer and half break material and yeast. I am thinking of decanting the beer off and adding it back to the fermentor. I did everything as sterile as I could thinking that I would do this.

Klaus

 

[kshuler]

There is a reason commercial breweries run a whirlpool on their wort to separate the hot &/or cold break from the wort.

Do they whirlpool HOT wort, or COOLED wort? Whirlpooling hot wort just seems like a way to decrease the hop aroma drastically. My guess is they run it from the kettle through a plate chiller and into some special tan that is just for whirlpooling, is this correct?

Klaus

 

[jawsbc]

Since you have got the conical, and it is easy to do, you might as well dump the trub after a short wait (30 minutes or so) and then add your yeast. It will only improve your beer. But don't worry about it.

Most microbreweries I have visited do the whirlpooling in the brew kettle while the wort is hot (including my own). The liquid is pumped back in below the surface of the wort through a tangential inlet, so hot-side aeration is avoided.

It sounds like you are pulling out a lot of "stuff" (3/4 gallon) when you dump the trub. You might try a very gentle whirlpool stirring in your conical, but go easy because otherwise you'll probably end up creating a compacted trub/hop pile in the bottom of your conical and have trouble getting it out.

 

[ibbones]

You're fine. I dump the whole pot in the fermenter and have done so for years.

Same here and no worries.

 

[remilard]

Do they whirlpool HOT wort, or COOLED wort? Whirlpooling hot wort just seems like a way to decrease the hop aroma drastically. My guess is they run it from the kettle through a plate chiller and into some special tan that is just for whirlpooling, is this correct?

Klaus

They whirlpool hot and, in fact, hopping during the ~ 30 minute hot whirlpool is how breweries like Russian River and Green Flash get as much hop aroma as they do (well that and dry hopping of course).

Since somebody will be along to tell me that you can't learn anything from commercial brewing because homebrewing is magically different, see Ray Daniel's PDF from last year's NHC (the stuff about post boil hop stands is several pages in).

http://www.ahaconference.com/presentations/2009/RDRM-BBB-ATRM1-Advanced Topics.pdf

 

[RogueGoose85]

I signed up just now to find this question/answer, what a great forum. Thanks for relieving my worries.

 

[CrustyBrau]

I have a false bottom in my kettle, and use whole hops. The hops on the false bottom do a pretty good job at filtering out the hot break, and I've never had any problems with clogging except for the one time I forgot to put the false bottom in the kettle.

I ran out and bought a false bottom for my kettle and got busy. It clogged *instantly*

Then I ran out and bought a bazooka screen. The outflow didn't even slow down