Hop flavor not coming through

[Helloworld]

I've entered two of my beers into BJCP competitions, and both times have received comments that there was not enough hop presence. I'm not sure what to do to increase hop flavor and aroma in my beer other than adding more hops, but according to Beersmith, my hand calcs, and comparing to other recipes it seems like my bittering and aroma hops are in the right range.

One of the brews was an American IPA. I used 0.5 oz magnum and 0.5 oz chinook for bittering and 2 oz of centenniel for aroma. Shouldn't that be sufficient for a bitter and hoppy IPA? One of the score sheets said I was out of style due to not enough hop presence, but that my beer would have done well in the English IPA category (much maltier than AIPA).

Could it be my local water source? I listened to Brew Strong and John Palmer said that residual alkalinity can impact hop or malt flavor depending on its level in solution. Before I brew again I want to get this resolved. I think the water might be a factor but I want to see if anyone has other suggestions.

 

[Natdavis777]

Are you able to get a water report of your water source? That would be a good starting point.

Another thing you could try is using RO water, use the recommendations via the Primer on this site, and see how that changes your beer. Either way, Id say your water would be the most likely culprit

 

[agrazela]

I'd say that's almost enough hops for an AIPA...if it's a 2 gallon batch.

 

[Natdavis777]

I didnt even pay attention to the hop amounts... What is your batch size? Id say you are def falling short if you are only using 3oz hops for a 5 gal batch

 

[Helloworld]

I didnt even pay attention to the hop amounts... What is your batch size? Id say you are def falling short if you are only using 3oz hops for a 5 gal batch

5 Gallons, yes. I must have done something wrong in my calculations and additionally must have Beersmith calibrated incorrectly.

I was thinking about sending a water sample off to Ward, but depending on environmental conditions I have different water sources so I think I will use RO water and build up a profile so I can have consistency.

 

[hopbrad]

id go with 3-4 oz for the flavor/aroma and another ounce or 2 for dry hopping

 

[Helloworld]

Is BYO not a good recipe resource? I was using their Stone IPA clone recipe. The article is old; maybe the recipe has changed as styles have gotten hoppier.

 

[brick]

Software will calculate bitterness (IBU) but doesn't know much about flavor and aroma. For those you need late hop additions (~15min or less before flameout) that don't contribute much to bitterness. Last weekend I brewed an IPA with additions at 20min, 10min, and a big hopstand at flamout, and it was the most intoxicatingly aromatic wort I've ever created.

 

[Yooper]

Software will calculate bitterness (IBU) but doesn't know much about flavor and aroma. For those you need late hop additions (~15min or less before flameout) that don't contribute much to bitterness. Last weekend I brewed an IPA with additions at 20min, 10min, and a big hopstand at flamout, and it was the most intoxicatingly aromatic wort I've ever created.

I was just going to say this! Great minds think alike, I guess.

A typical hops schedule for a traditionally hopped IPA is something like this:

.5 oz bittering hops 60 minutes (or whatever it takes to get to 35 IBUs or so with this one addition)
1 oz hops 15 minutes
1 oz hops 5 minutes
1 oz hops 0 minutes
2 oz dryhops

"Bigger" IPAs will use even more, including more at flame out or as whirlpool hops.

English IPAs have less late hopping, but still are hoppy, and of course are hopped with English hops which tend to be earthy and fruity-ish, and not citrusy like American IPAs.

 

[wilserbrewer]

American IPA's have become so hop flavor aroma forward that I think you would be hard pressed to overdue the late additions, dry hops. My experience is what you think may be too much, may still fall short.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[tagz]

More hops! And look up "hop stand."

 

[sanguine]

Where exactly do you live, OP, and where does your water come from? Part of the reason we make so many IPAs out here in Cascadia is the easy availability of very soft tap water - the water here in Seattle comes from mountain snow melt, so the mineral content is very small. In contrast, the tap water in someplace like Southern California tastes like sucking on a piece of chalk, and this is likely put the kibosh on light, fruity hop flavors you want in a west coast IPA.

 

[feinbera]

I'll "hop" on the bandwagon, here... use more hops!

I was having this exact same problem, my "hoppy" beers just weren't coming out as hoppy as my favorite commercial IPA's. I was using about as much hops as you are; cranking it up to an ounce at 60 and five or six ounces between various late additions and the dry hop finally got my beers where I want 'em.

 

[Helloworld]

Where exactly do you live, OP, and where does your water come from? Part of the reason we make so many IPAs out here in Cascadia is the easy availability of very soft tap water - the water here in Seattle comes from mountain snow melt, so the mineral content is very small. In contrast, the tap water in someplace like Southern California tastes like sucking on a piece of chalk, and this is likely put the kibosh on light, fruity hop flavors you want in a west coast IPA.

I am in Sacramento, CA. Water comes from rivers and reservoirs, and some times groundwater if the former are low.

 

[day_trippr]

I don't get using Magnum with C-hops. Seems pointless. Save the Magnum for recipes that actually don't want citrusy characters and go all-in with the C-hops.

And if all of the Centennial was used in the last five minutes or later (flameout/whirlpool/dryhop/etc) there's actually nothing in the middle to balance the malt on the taste buds. There's a hole in the hop schedule.

To tweak this simple recipe I'd go with an ounce of Chinook at the beginning of a 60 boil, an ounce of Centennial with 10-12 minutes left, another ounce at flame-out, and two ounces dry hopped after fermentation has completed.

Yeah, there's two more ounces of Centennial than the OP's original bill, but you know that's what the judges want

Which reminds me I need to do another home-grown Centennial SMaSH....

Cheers!

 

[Helloworld]

I don't get using Magnum with C-hops.

Well, I was just trying to copy what Stone says they use for my Stone IPA clone.

http://www.stonebrewing.com/ipa/

Magnum, Chinook, Centenniel

 

[CA_Mouse]

Competitions are extremely subjective. I recently had my Pale Ale comments come back as not hoppy enough and my IPA (using 8oz of Amarillo 8.6%AA) had comments of not enough bittering for an IPA. Both were 5.5 gallon batches, so just because one comp says that your beer wasn't in style or on par with what they expected, doesn't mean your beer wasn't good.

I have very hard water that I filter and adjust slightly only if I'm brewing something extremely light. You can try purchasing RO water or Spring water, just remember that you will have to make additions to RO and you don't really know the mineral content of Spring water from the store shelves.

 

[sky4meplease]

Try to get your ph down on the low end. That will help to sharpen things up a bit.
Also, a water low in residual alkalinity and a sulfate/chloride ratio in the range of 2.5-3.0-1 will help bring the hops out front.
Oh, and make sure your volumes are correct. Being .25 - .5 gallon over in volume will throw off your hop calculations as well.

 

[Clef051]

I don't get using Magnum with C-hops.

I usually use magnum or apollo as a bittering hop. There isnt any flavor left by the end of the boil anyways. They are usually cheaper and have higher AA%. Then save the hops with good flavor and aroma for the end.

I usually get about half of the ibu's from the bittering. then a 10 minute addition a huge addition at flame out and at least 3oz per 5 gallons. That is around a pound per barrel for the dry hop.

 

[theciderkid]

Use gypsum and spring water, just doing these 2 thing took my ipa over the top

 

[Wrinkletusk]

My latest batch's hop schedule looks like this:

19 Litre / 5gal batch

Pellet hops.
FWH: 5g / 0.18oz (6 ibu)
20 Min: 22g / 0.78oz (15 ibu)
10 Min: 24g / 0.86oz (9.5 ibu)
5 Min: 44g / 1.57oz (9.4 ibu)
2 Min: 84g / 3oz (7.6 ibu)
<63*c/145*f 30 minute steep: 144g / 5.14oz (NA)
4 separate dry hop additions with 36g / 1.28oz each.

OG 1.065
IBU 47.5

Maris Otter
Carahell
Flaked Wheat
Acid malt

7g gypsum
3g epsom
3g calcium chloride

This is still very much a work in progress, but the hydrometer samples are stinking of hops.