Homemade PBW Recipe

[WhoDatDad78]

I use the Kroger branded one: "Kroger® Multi-Purpose Oxygen Cleaner"

View attachment 740103

It appears to be mostly Sodium Percarbonate and Salt:

https://www.kroger.com/CleaningProductRightToKnow/0001111085825ING.pdf

It's also typically inder $4 for a 3lb tub...

I purchased a 3.25 lb tub of ALL oxi booster at Tom Thumb for $6.99, which is basically what I would have paid on Amazon for Oxi at 3 lbs. Only thing is Amazon won't deliver til next month, so...I'll take it.

 

[WhoDatDad78]

I use All in mine. I also use the TSP-PF from Savogran (green box) from Lowes at 70/30 mix.

I always give the container a good shake before using as the ingredients are somewhat different grain sizes and tend to separate.

How did it perform?

 

[Deadalus]

How did it perform?

I haven't noticed any difference in the close to 2 years I've been using it. The only place I wonder about is my homemade carboy/keg washer where i get a bit of foam. I think it happens similarly with regular PBW however and it might be more of a design issue as carboy necks are narrow.

 

[DuncB]

@Deadalus
I haven't noticed your foam thing using a 1700 litre per hour pond pump to a CIP spray ball in my kegs and for the fermentasaurus, I have the keg upside down so spray going up towards base of keg. I use clear kegs and haven't seen the foam. Sometimes get a bit of an airlock but I just use a separate smaller tube inserted thru the neck to break the airlock.
I am using the Sodium Percarb, Sodium Metasilicate and EDTA purchased from chemical supply company so might not have an additive / contaminant that the " washing products " might have.

 

[Deadalus]

@Deadalus
I haven't noticed your foam thing using a 1700 litre per hour pond pump to a CIP spray ball in my kegs and for the fermentasaurus, I have the keg upside down so spray going up towards base of keg. I use clear kegs and haven't seen the foam. Sometimes get a bit of an airlock but I just use a separate smaller tube inserted thru the neck to break the airlock.
I am using the Sodium Percarb, Sodium Metasilicate and EDTA purchased from chemical supply company so might not have an additive / contaminant that the " washing products " might have.

I think tube as you mentioned, because that seems like it contributes to the buildup. Neck is narrow on my carboys. I wonder if there might be a little something extra in the All as well. I usually unpkug the pumo and let the carboy drain out then restart the pump.

 

[DuncB]

I think tube as you mentioned, because that seems like it contributes to the buildup. Neck is narrow on my carboys. I wonder if there might be a little something extra in the All as well. I usually unpkug the pumo and let the carboy drain out then restart the pump.

Hi I manage to squeeze a half inch internal diameter silicone tube in at the same time as the CIP spray " shaft " and have this near the top of the keg. This releases the airlock all the time and so I don't have to stop the pump and let it glug down.

 

[DuncB]

Just a question following up on a point raised on the robobrew thread about PBW from a kegland video about stellarsan ( their own pbw).
They are saying to wash out anything you clean with pbw using the same temp or hotter water to ensure it's all rinsed out, implying that if cooler temps used it doesn't wash off well.
Any ideas, seems slightly flawed I don't see the physics of that, but agree hotter water will be more effective but not essential.

 

[day_trippr]

I've consistently noticed more residue remaining if the rinse water isn't as hot as the pbw water temperature.
The "why" never seemed important...

Cheers!

 

[Brooothru]

I've consistently noticed more residue remaining if the rinse water isn't as hot as the pbw water temperature.
The "why" never seemed important...

Cheers!

Anyone tried the new aqueous PBW? Does it yield the same volume in diluted solution as the familiar powder form? Seems like the anhydrous form would be cheaper to ship on a per yield basis.

 

[marc1]

Anyone tried the new aqueous PBW? Does it yield the same volume in diluted solution as the familiar powder form? Seems like the anhydrous form would be cheaper to ship on a per yield basis.

Whoah. Liquid Powdered Brewery Wash.

Didn't know that was a thing.

 

[Brooothru]

Whoah. Liquid Powdered Brewery Wash.

Didn't know that was a thing.

Yeah, I believe it was on the MoreBeer website. PBW in liquid form. I can't see how it would be a better cleaner, or even how the oxygenation properties would hold up in liquid form, though I'm certainly not a chemist. Convenient? Yes. Less residue? Perhaps. Better? Unclear. Less expensive? No way.

 

[MaxStout]

Schrodinger's Powdered Brewery Wash. It's a powder, but it's not.

Haven't tried it. Wonder what the cost per use is compared to the powdered PBW.

I've had good results from the PBW clone I made up. Anecdotally, seems to be just as effective as the real deal, but a fraction of the price.

 

[soccerdad]

Anyone use the powdered liquid water with the liquid powdered cleaner?

 

[Brooothru]

Schrodinger's Powdered Brewery Wash. It's a powder, but it's not.

Does it come in a sealed box? Is it alive or dead?

 

[MaxStout]

Anyone use the powdered liquid water with the liquid powdered cleaner?

No. I'm waiting for the PBW in gaseous state. Maybe we could get it in compressed gas cylinders.

 

[Brooothru]

Or plasma. Extra cleaning (scouring) power.

 

[MaxStout]

I could see the liquid PBW being handy in that it would dissolve faster. With my DIY stuff, I have to swirl the water around in the vessel for several minutes for the powder to fully dissolve. And I use hot water. Rinsing with hot water is key, too.

 

[marc1]

Anyone use the powdered liquid water with the liquid powdered cleaner?

Steven Wright: I bought powdered water and didn't know what to add...
Me: (yelling at TV) heat!

 

[Bilsch]

If you look at the MSDS on the liquid PBW you won’t find percarbonate or other oxygen compounds so the liquid PBW is similar to alkaline brewery wash.

 

[soccerdad]

Man oh Man! That Al Kaline. His entire career with the Tigers - Hall of Fame - 399 homers - 10 Golden Gloves - 18 All Star selections. Then Al Kaline batteries and now Al Kaline brewery wash. Amazing!

 

[Brooothru]

Man oh Man! That Al Kaline. His entire career with the Tigers - Hall of Fame - 399 homers - 10 Golden Gloves - 18 All Star selections. Then Al Kaline batteries and now Al Kaline brewery wash. Amazing!

 

[DuncB]

Going back a few posts but P for Powerful ?

Joking aside I always have a packet of dehydrated water in my disaster pack. It's very useful, long shelf life and you just add water to it and it's full on hydration.

 

[jtratcliff]

I purchased a 3.25 lb tub of ALL oxi booster at Tom Thumb for $6.99, which is basically what I would have paid on Amazon for Oxi at 3 lbs. Only thing is Amazon won't deliver til next month, so...I'll take it.

Well, it seems like the Kroger branded one has changed suppliers (and also the name of the product itself)... No longer suitable for use as PBW substitute... Too bad, too. I could regularly get for $3.99 / 3 lb tub.

Looks like the ALL oxi booster is the next best ... I can find it for $4.99 at Vons grocery stores (I think it's owned by Albertsons)

 

[soccerdad]

What makes the Kroger version not suitable?

 

[IslandLizard]

Well, it seems like the Kroger branded one has changed suppliers (and also the name of the product itself)... No longer suitable for use as PBW substitute... Too bad, too. I could regularly get for $3.99 / 3 lb tub.

What would it make unsuitable? Additives?

The main component we're looking for is Sodium Percarbonate, the oxygen supplying compound. The higher the percentage, the better for our uses. The balance is usually made up of Sodium Carbonate (aka Washing Soda).

Looks like the ALL oxi booster is the next best ...

What is the % of PerCarbonate in that? The generic I used to get was around 50-60% Percarbonate.

 

[jtratcliff]

What would it make unsuitable? Additives?

,

Yeah, fragrance and colorants ... among other stuff... Old version had none of that crap, just Sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate (Percarbonate) &
sodium chloride...

New:

https://www.kroger.com/CleaningProductRightToKnow/0001111009302ING.pdf

vs

Old:

https://www.kroger.com/CleaningProductRightToKnow/0001111085825ING.pdf

What is the % of PerCarbonate in that? The generic I used to get was around 50-60% Percarbonate.

Don't know for sure, but it's made by Sun Products, so probably the same as the Sun Oxygen cleaner in the OP....

https://sunproductsmsdsbrand.thewercs.com/private/document.aspx?prd=197005033~~PDF~~MTR~~AGHS~~EN~~2015-05-07%2015%3A38%3A13~~ALL%206/52Z%20FPT%20FREE%20CLEAR~~&__VIEWSTATEGENERATOR=D6323F43

Although the ingredient lists for the 2 products have the order of the ingredients switched... Sun lists Sodium Percarbonate And Sodium Carbonate, while ALL lists Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Percarbonate... at least on the walmart product descriptions...

 

[DuncB]

@jtratcliff

Slightly off topic re PBW but on rocket science

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, fragrance and colorants ... among other stuff

And what one calls "filler" and the other "builder" for the same ingredient (or class of ingredients) (e.g., NaCl, common table salt). I guess industrial "table salt" is much cheaper than washing soda, The latter I used to buy in (large) 3 or 4 pound boxes only available at a Walmart in a less affluent area, for as many bucks or less.

Hard to compare those ingredient lists. It's also very possible ingredients have been left out some of them, such on the "original" Kroger Oxi only listing 2.

The fragrance addition is indeed the bigger issue as it may be adsorbed/absorbed by certain plastics. When used in glass I would not be too concerned, as it should rinse out. But yeah... we can do without it. Dang!

 

[IslandLizard]

BTW, the ALL SDS doesn't list any ingredients, but this caught my eye:
Property Values Remarks•Method
pH - 7.0 - 1% SOLUTION

That's impossible of course for an alkaline cleaner.

 

[soccerdad]

I find that the ALL powdered laundry booster is an acceptable alternative and is generally available at wally world. But whenever I get to an Aldi I look for their version. Also, the dollar stores sometimes have an "Awesome" brand but it might be scented.

 

[balrog]

I just buy it straight. Ebay for instance.

Granular Coated Sodium Percarbonate-hydrogen peroxide-oxidizing agent 2lbs-40lbs | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Granular Coated Sodium Percarbonate-hydrogen peroxide-oxidizing agent 2lbs-40lbs at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[UdonPete]

Or why not just use Sodium Percarbonate by it's self ?

 

[Miraculix]

What is the current version of the recipe?

 

[soccerdad]

I'm pretty sure it's 2 scoops Oxi Free (or generic) and 2 scoop tsp or tsp90. 66% to 33%.

Many here recommend just getting powdered sodium percarbonate - rather than a mix. And sodium metasilcate v. tsp.

 

[balrog]

I'm pretty sure it's 2 scoops Oxi Free (or generic) and 2 scoop tsp or tsp90. 66% to 33%.

2:2 = 66%:33% ? Because of the % of sodium percarbonate in the OFree?

 

[soccerdad]

Yes 2:2. Wear your tutu when you mix it. I do.

 

[soccerdad]

No seriously, if I were using single chem sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilcate, I would just do 2 scoops SP to 1 scoop SM.*
But with generic oxy free (which I use) having an unknown quantity of sodium carbonate, I might up the number of scoops of generic oxy free. That seems (to me) to be the real work horse here.
* these single chem formulations appear to be available on Amazon and other places

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm pretty sure it's 2 scoops Oxi Free (or generic) and 2 scoop tsp or tsp90. 66% to 33%.

Did you mean to say 2 scoops of Oxi and 1 scoop of TSP/90? That would make it 67%/33%.

 

[Miraculix]

Did you mean to say 2 scoops of Oxi and 1 scoop of TSP/90? That would make it 67%/33%.

2:2 = 66%:33% ? Because of the % of sodium percarbonate in the OFree?

 

[balrog]

I'm thinking the 2:2 is for Tru©™® Homemade PBW.

I buy ebay sodium percarbonate.
I mix that 2:1 with True Value (not Tru©™®) TSP/90