Homemade PBW Recipe

[soccerdad]

Did you mean to say 2 scoops of Oxi and 1 scoop of TSP/90? That would make it 67%/33%.

I DID mean 2 to 1. But that's close to math. Let's not go there.

 

[Brooothru]

Always refrain from performing Math in Public. Words to live by.

 

[balrog]

No truer words were ever spoken.

 

[day_trippr]

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Three kinds of people in the world:
-those who are good at math, and
-those who are not.

 

[delium55]

For those who know dose the PBW look this;
Download jmc's PBW Excel Calculation Spreadsheet at ://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/extras.htm

 

[LarMoeCur]

So, I'm ordering the ingredients to mix up some of this and got to thinking. About, how the pH is really what get's the cleaning done. So, I spent sometime on google and from what I can find PBW's pH should be around 12. Now here's the dangerous part, "I got to thinking". Wouldn't adding 7th Generation Dish washing detergent which contains citric acid lower the pH enough to make it some what neutral or closer to neutral? I've got a good water softener and I'm thinking I may not need 7th Gen if it's being used mainly for the cleating agents.

Thoughts? Preferably less dangerous then my own.

Thank you.

 

[marc1]

So, I'm ordering the ingredients to mix up some of this and got to thinking. About, how the pH is really what get's the cleaning done. So, I spent sometime on google and from what I can find PBW's pH should be around 12. Now here's the dangerous part, "I got to thinking". Wouldn't adding 7th Generation Dish washing detergent which contains citric acid lower the pH enough to make it some what neutral or closer to neutral? I've got a good water softener and I'm thinking I may not need 7th Gen if it's being used mainly for the cleating agents.

Thoughts? Preferably less dangerous then my own.

Thank you.

I have softened water and I don't add the 7th Gen to mine.

 

[Brooothru]

So, I'm ordering the ingredients to mix up some of this and got to thinking. About, how the pH is really what get's the cleaning done. So, I spent sometime on google and from what I can find PBW's pH should be around 12. Now here's the dangerous part, "I got to thinking". Wouldn't adding 7th Generation Dish washing detergent which contains citric acid lower the pH enough to make it some what neutral or closer to neutral? I've got a good water softener and I'm thinking I may not need 7th Gen if it's being used mainly for the cleating agents.

Thoughts? Preferably less dangerous then my own.

Thank you.

I think the purpose of 7th. Generation is to act as a surfactant. Any acid in a dishwashing liquid probably wouldn't be low enough pH to neutralize any large volumn of PBW with that much alkalinity. You'd have to add more than a squirter or two of 7th Gen. to a BV or fermenter full of pH 11.0 cleaner.

 

[balrog]

So, I'm ordering the ingredients to mix up some of this and got to thinking. About, how the pH is really what get's the cleaning done. So, I spent sometime on google and from what I can find PBW's pH should be around 12. Now here's the dangerous part, "I got to thinking". Wouldn't adding 7th Generation Dish washing detergent which contains citric acid lower the pH enough to make it some what neutral or closer to neutral? I've got a good water softener and I'm thinking I may not need 7th Gen if it's being used mainly for the cleating agents.

Thoughts? Preferably less dangerous then my own.

Thank you.

I'm sure @Silver_Is_Money could calculate the mole equivalent free OH buffered whatnot thingydowhitchits.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Add Citric Acid to it and it is no longer a PBW_Like cleaner. No need for expended effort here.

 

[balrog]

Add Citric Acid to it and it is no longer a PBW_Like cleaner. No need for expended effort here.

and you call yourself an ocd dataphile. Shame!

 

[LarMoeCur]

Add Citric Acid to it and it is no longer a PBW_Like cleaner. No need for expended effort here.

thank you for the replies. I'll be sticking to the 2 to 1 oxiclean free and red devil. I wanna keep the pH high.

 

[MaxStout]

I made some a few years ago, close to the OP's recipe. IIRC, it turned out just north of $2.00/lb. Went back to Amazon to check prices of the ingredients, and they've gone way up. I didn't calculate the per pound amount of the clone, but not sure it's much of a savings over PBW anymore.

What are you all paying per pound, once the ingredients are assembled? Maybe some better sources out there? The TSP/90 can be found at home center stores, but I don't want to be running in and out of several stores to get all the ingredients.

I see they have 50lb pails of PBW for $195 and free shipping, which works out to $3.90/lb.

 

[balrog]

What are you all paying per pound

I see they have 50lb pails of PBW for $195 and free shipping, which works out to $3.90/lb.

Bought 3# sodium metasillicate for $18, need 1/3#, = $2
Bought 20# sodium percarbonate for $50, need 2/3# = $1.5

Unless I'm all wrong, and "2 scoops to 1 scoop" does not work out to "2 pounds to 1 pound", then I think I am spending $3.50/#

 

[doogie]

Bought 3# sodium metasillicate for $18, need 1/3#, = $2
Bought 20# sodium percarbonate for $50, need 2/3# = $1.5

Unless I'm all wrong, and "2 scoops to 1 scoop" does not work out to "2 pounds to 1 pound", then I think I am spending $3.50/#

And have to store half as much at the most.

 

[LarMoeCur]

As far as I can tell it's two ingredients. My life sucks because I'm always at some kind of store buying this thing or that thing. So, when I see what I need I just throw it in the cart. So it's not to much a hassle for me.

I got a 3# tub of Oxiclean Free for $5.
I got 2 one pound bags of Red Devil/90 for $3.76.
4.5# of DIY PBW for $8.76 that's right around $1.94 per pound.

50# of PBW seems like a life time supply. I'd rather scrub a little more and buy $185 dollars worth of grain and hops.

4# of PBW on Amazon is $24 which is still $6 bucks a pound. If it works almost as good that still quite a bit of savings in my book.

On a side note if someone bought a 50# and broke it down into 10# containers. I'd pay the $40 for 10#.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Just a little side note here. The homemade PBW (TSP-90 & Oxiclean) works really well. See attached pictures.

 

[SanPancho]

hey folks- just found a big ass box of regular TSP in bsmt left by folks who sold us the house. can that be used in the DIY cleaner, or is it only the TSP/90?

 

[BQ&W]

I use All Oxi-Free and Savogran TSP. Works for me.

 

[Jayjay1976]

hey folks- just found a big ass box of regular TSP in bsmt left by folks who sold us the house. can that be used in the DIY cleaner, or is it only the TSP/90?

Real TSP is the best option, TSP/90 being a phosphate-free substitute.

 

[SanPancho]

Real TSP is the best option, TSP/90 being a phosphate-free substitute.

awesome. guess i'll need to grab some more oxi free at the walmarts so i can mix a batch.

 

[Jayjay1976]

awesome. guess i'll need to grab some more oxi free at the walmarts so i can mix a batch.

That will be awesome and probably the best DIY substitute for PBW, I'd recommend using it sparingly, reserving it for super tough cleaning jobs and use plain old oxi free for routine type cleaning.

 

[InspectorJon]

Real TSP is readily available in the paint section of most hardware stores, at least here in California. Is there any reason not to use that?

 

[redrocker652002]

OK. I am really late to this party, but please break it down for the simpleton I am. What do I need and how much of each for a batch? LOL.

 

[balrog]

I use 2/3 sodium percarbonate and 1/3 TSP/90, by rough volume not weight

The TSP/90 is specified because it is sodium metasilicate, while TSP is not, and the PBW we are trying to duplicate has sodium metasilicate.

I think.

 

[DuncB]

I've always gone by weight and add 5% EDTA to the mix.

 

[Ippie]

I bought TSP-PF to mix with Oxiclean Free, yet looks like TSP-PF is Sodium sesquicarbonate. Can I still use that? Or do I need to go with TSP/90 to get Sodium metasilicate?

 

[IslandLizard]

TSP-PF is Sodium sesquicarbonate

You can envision that as being as mixture of 50% Sodium Carbonate (Na2CO3) and 50% Sodium BiCarbonate (NaHCO3) (by moles, not weight).

Sodium Carbonate (Na2CO3), commonly known as "washing soda," is usually already present in OxiClean Free (it's cutting it).
The % of Sodium Carbonate depends on the brand. It makes up the balance of the active ingredient, Sodium PerCarbonate, the chemical that releases the Oxygen, which is what you're buying it for.

Sodium BiCarbonate (NaHCO3) aka Baking Soda, is a pH buffering agent, merely adds alkalinity, but not a good degreaser/cleaner.

Or do I need to go with TSP/90 to get Sodium metasilicate?

Yes, you do. And return the /PF.

TSP/90 is 100% Sodium Metasilicate PentaHydrate (2013):

https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/18211/standard/p%20class=%22p1%22%3ERed%20Devil%20TSP-90%20Heavy%20Duty%20Cleaner,%20Phosphate%20Free,%20Powder,%200261-05/30/2013/p%3E/18-007-174

 

[mscroggi]

I use All Oxi-Free and Savogran TSP. Works for me.

I was going to ask about this.. I have been looking for the Red Devil /90 TSP and cant find it. I assume it is no longer produced by them. I found the
Savogran TSP and was trying to determine if it is the same thing. Also I see the Lundmark brand. I cant see anythwere on the product where it shows the ingredient. I cant tell if the ingredients and concentrations are the same. The Landmark version is 12$ for 4 lbs.

Can anyone offer some info if there are any differences?

 

[balrog]

I was going to ask about this.. I have been looking for the Red Devil /90 TSP and cant find it. I assume it is no longer produced by them. I found the
Savogran TSP and was trying to determine if it is the same thing. Also I see the Landmark brand. I cant see anythwere on the product where it shows the ingredient. I cant tell if the ingredients and concentrations are the same. The Landmark version is 12$ for 4 lbs.

Can anyone offer some info if there are any differences?

TSP/90 is the sodium metasilicate, which is the ingredient in PBW this thread is trying to match.
"Regular" TSP is tri-sodium phosphate and 25% sodium carbonate.

It may work just fine.

 

[IslandLizard]

Also I see the Landmark brand. I cant see anythwere on the product where it shows the ingredient. I cant tell if the ingredients and concentrations are the same. The Landmark version is 12$ for 4 lbs.

Have you searched on the web? That's where I got my data from in #949.^

 

[jtratcliff]

TSP/90 is the sodium metasilicate, which is the ingredient in PBW this thread is trying to match.
"Regular" TSP is tri-sodium phosphate and 25% sodium carbonate.

It may work just fine.

Somewhere upthread, someone reported positive experience using "real" TSP...

The recipe uses TSP/90 because it's trying to mimic PBW, but TSP/90 is a phosphate-free version of TSP (i.e. not really TSP at all) that serves the same purpose. So I'd imagine they perform similarly...

 

[balrog]

I bought TSP-PF to mix with Oxiclean Free, yet looks like TSP-PF is Sodium sesquicarbonate. Can I still use that? Or do I need to go with TSP/90 to get Sodium metasilicate?

Just FYI, you *can* simply purchase bags of sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate online (ebay, amazon, etc)