Homebrew Canners - Can Seamers

[Morrey]

Cool I was waiting to hear back! This would be great to take a few beers to a tasting or the river/lake. Keep posting up as you learn more.

Also wanna see the label......when you finalize the design.

I was totally bummed out by bottling even in small quantities so canning seems like a dream come true. Filling a can is basically like filling a beer glass from a tap. Love it!

I'll post a copy of the label when done, plus I'll put my new logo on as my sig.

 

[mongoose33]

Mainly was relating to the technical considerations used with the design program InDesign and the bleed (edge) that a label is designed with. But lots of this information went out the window when I was told the matte label was basically my only real choice since I wanted to write on the label with a sharpie. I had wanted to print on a transparent label so the silver of the can could be seen in areas, but was told the transparent label material wouldn't accept a Sharpie. The matte is fine for now.

I'd like to see that for sure....there's a newer "industrial" sharpie out there that is more indelible than the standard one. Can you find a few cans with the transparent material on which you could try that newer sharpie?

Here's what I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I0VMJK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[goldenknotslim]

OK...the verdict is in! I LOVE this new AA canner/seamer. Set it up last night and of course wasted about 7 or 8 cans adjusting the machine...but I got it running like a sewing machine now. Test sealed a 4 pk of cans and stored then in the fridge upside down on a paper towel to test for seepage or leaks. Towel was dry this morning so I'll assume all is ok....plus the cans feel full and firm, not squishy like they lost carbonation. Still learning of course.

But, I love the canning process compared to bottling. I purged the cans with a shot of CO2 after rinsing in StarSan, then filled with my Perlick flow control taps. Made a beautiful pour and got just a tiny bit of foam on top so I'd be seating the lid on foam. A bit of foam pushed out and ran down the sides, but my understanding is this is desirable to eliminate O2.

Super glad I got the AA...now label design is underway with printing to follow.

I would recommend a much more thorough inspection if you intend to give the cans to others.
The most simple method I use is simply putting a can down on the ground horizontally and standing on the side of it. I weigh 190 and can even bounce a little without the lid failing. If anything you want the bottom or side to fail first.
You never know if the cans will be left in a hot car etc. after they have left your control.

 

[goldenknotslim]

Finished seam width and height are a good indicator but tearing down lets you measure cover hook and body hook, along with visually confirming "tightness"
The modded opener can also turn any can into a 360 lid!

 

[Morrey]

I'd like to see that for sure....there's a newer "industrial" sharpie out there that is more indelible than the standard one. Can you find a few cans with the transparent material on which you could try that newer sharpie?

Here's what I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I0VMJK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thanks @mongoose33. I was making an order of a few office supplies, so I added the Sharpies in my cart.

 

[Morrey]

I would recommend a much more thorough inspection if you intend to give the cans to others.
The most simple method I use is simply putting a can down on the ground horizontally and standing on the side of it. I weigh 190 and can even bounce a little without the lid failing. If anything you want the bottom or side to fail first.
You never know if the cans will be left in a hot car etc. after they have left your control.

Good suggestion. I did some "firm" squeezing, but I'll try the stand on the can test as you posted.

 

[peoples22]

How was using a drill over the hand crank? That was my only reservation about this unit was getting an arm workout along with canned beer.

 

[Morrey]

How was using a drill over the hand crank? That was my only reservation about this unit was getting an arm workout along with canned beer.

To be honest I haven't tried the drill on the shaft yet. I've been working on label designs, label materials, etc so I haven't canned anything since I made my initial adjustments.

I actually called All American and talked with a tech rep who works exclusively on their can seamers. I just wanted to hear it from him (AA) that using a drill wouldn't mess up the unit or void the warranty. Believe it or not - he actually gave the cordless drill method a nod of approval. He said to use a drill with good torque (I have an 18V DeWalt) and take it slow so I can stop the drill as soon as the second roller moves away from the can. He said LOTS of users are doing this vs getting the electric model.

If I was going to use the manual only mode, I'd now know to get the flywheel model. But I had the drill concept in my mind all along so the hand crank was the least expensive option. Will test soon and post back.

 

[peoples22]

To be honest I haven't tried the drill on the shaft yet. I've been working on label designs, label materials, etc so I haven't canned anything since I made my initial adjustments.

I actually called All American and talked with a tech rep who works exclusively on their can seamers. I just wanted to hear it from him (AA) that using a drill wouldn't mess up the unit or void the warranty. Believe it or not - he actually gave the cordless drill method a nod of approval. He said to use a drill with good torque (I have an 18V DeWalt) and take it slow so I can stop the drill as soon as the second roller moves away from the can. He said LOTS of users are doing this vs getting the electric model.

If I was going to use the manual only mode, I'd now know to get the flywheel model. But I had the drill concept in my mind all along so the hand crank was the least expensive option. Will test soon and post back.

Awesome, thanks for update and keep us posted. I am definitely looking into the AA unit as my entry into canning even though I really like the Oktober unit but it's well outside my price range.

 

[Morrey]

Awesome, thanks for update and keep us posted. I am definitely looking into the AA unit as my entry into canning even though I really like the Oktober unit but it's well outside my price range.

Yeah, the Oktober unit is sweet albeit twice the price I paid according to the prices I came up with. Being that I already have a nice cordless drill to power the AA, I am going to end up with something close to the way a $2,200 AA electric seamer operates for 1/3 the price.

I'll post back after I have a few sessions under my belt and get a better feel for the operation. The vendor I used has a seamer like mine run by a cordless drill, and he says they use it all the time canning home brew for students in his classes. He owns a LHBS which gives brewing lessons, so lots of beer is being canned at his store as he teaches new brewers how to get started. Looks like his machine is getting moderately high volume, so maybe this starter canner will end up being more satisfactory in the long run than originally thought.

 

[Morrey]

I would recommend a much more thorough inspection if you intend to give the cans to others.
The most simple method I use is simply putting a can down on the ground horizontally and standing on the side of it. I weigh 190 and can even bounce a little without the lid failing. If anything you want the bottom or side to fail first.
You never know if the cans will be left in a hot car etc. after they have left your control.

I filled two cans with highly carbed beer for testing. Can 1 was left on the dash of my truck (all afternoon) with the windows rolled up. Outside temp was 95F, and with the sun beating down, I figure 135-140F in the truck or there about.

Can 2 was my stand on and jump on can. I did two tests - one I stood on can laying on its side with my full weight, second test was putting a 2 x 4 on the horizontal can as a platform and semi-bouncing on the can.

Both cans held pressure with no leaking. Can 2 got sort of dented up but no leaks. Can 1 in the hot truck looked swollen slightly, but no leaking. I suppose these were the type of tests I should have done, so testing complete with no failures. Thanks for the suggestions and I know what you mean....better safe than sorry.

 

[Morrey]

I'd like to see that for sure....there's a newer "industrial" sharpie out there that is more indelible than the standard one.

Industrial Sharpies coming in today. Sticker Giant is sending a sample pack of their various label materials to see which material is my choice. Transparent label material will be included.

 

[plazola86]

I made a working table top deal for mine. Holder for beer gun sanitizer, holder for beer filling and room to work on.

 

[plazola86]

I wasn't successful with attaching a drill. Out of all the times I tried the cans never sealed right, with the hand sealed cans I was able to stand on it with my full 240 pounds of beef! tried it with soda and heard a nice CO2 pop every time.

 

[smcinco]

Would anybody be able to post a link to can/lid blanks?

 

[Morrey]

Would anybody be able to post a link to can/lid blanks?

I bought my AA can seamer and cans/lids from a seller on eBay, LionBrewingSolutions. I couldn't get a link to work on eBay, but if you go to eBay and search, you can find #202 cans that fit Oktober and AA can seamers.

 

[grassfeeder]

I bought my AA can seamer and cans/lids from a seller on eBay, LionBrewingSolutions. I couldn't get a link to work on eBay, but if you go to eBay and search, you can find #202 cans that fit Oktober and AA can seamers.

Any update on the labels?

 

[Morrey]

Any update on the labels?

Think I'm close. Sticker Giant is helping me tweak the final proof. I was heading in the direction of lots of art and stuff...then I decided it was too busy. I'm backtracking and just using my logo with a simple arched outline with rounded corners and white space to write the beer name. Sometimes simple is the best approach to understated elegance.

I got the hand drill running the AA seamer like a swiss watch. Cans are flawless. Of course now that I'm into canning, the tax tariff has scared folks and my cans have jumped up 22%. Just my luck! LOL

 

[jready]

Thanks to Morrey’s referral here is my new label

 

[augiedoggy]

theres a brewery near my cabin that has a canning machine on the counter, the owner told me he bought the canner for $1200 and change. But he told me to be careful because some canners only accept cans that can cost up to twice as much and he has to buy his cans in large pallet orders to get a decent price on them? anyone else know anything about this? I'm considering buying a canner for a nanobrewry.. not sure on (can) size yet.

 

[Morrey]

theres a brewery near my cabin that has a canning machine on the counter, the owner told me he bought the canner for $1200 and change. But he told me to be careful because some canners only accept cans that can cost up to twice as much and he has to buy his cans in large pallet orders to get a decent price on them? anyone else know anything about this? I'm considering buying a canner for a nanobrewry.. not sure on (can) size yet.

The AA canner/seamer I bought is a hand crank (I use a drill) designed for 12 ounce and 16 ounce #202 cans, so I think this may be considered a "home brew" machine. The machine is built like a tank and I can easily see this machine could take on a nano operation if maintained and lubed regularly. The can diameter is the same on both sizes, and the 12 ounce can will have the can chuck raised by a set of shims under the base. Take those shims out and reduce the height to accommodate the taller 16 ounce can. Again, this machine is designed for use with #202 cans advertised as AA or Oktober cans.

My last order for cans on or around July 4th was from a vendor on eBay. So you can cost compare, I paid $88 for 256 cans and lids (12 oz) and $99 for 192 cans and lids (16 oz) with shipping included in the price.

My craft brew watering hole uses 32 ounce cans. Their machine is an electric model which seems to be designed to use for that specific can size, so I am not sure if it can accept other can sizes with a kit. The bartender told me this seamer was proprietary and the design was sold by a brewery although she cant remember the specific name...but maybe Oskar Blues? Not sure.

But my take is that commercial operations are using the 32 ounce crowlers when canning single beers behind the bar. They occasionally hire in mobile canning units that do specialty batch canning and those are often 16 ounce cans.

 

[drez77]

I got the hand drill running the AA seamer like a swiss watch. Cans are flawless. Of course now that I'm into canning, the tax tariff has scared folks and my cans have jumped up 22%. Just my luck! LOL

Can you post any pictures of this? I am thinking of getting one and using a foot switch with a drill.

 

[Morrey]

Can you post any pictures of this? I am thinking of getting one and using a foot switch with a drill.

Sure. I have a collaboration brew set the Saturday, and we'll can a few other beers for my buddy to take home. I'll take some pics to post.

I think the foot switch with a drill is a great idea. Will you fashion some sort of frame or stand to mount the drill for hands free operation?

 

[drez77]

Sure. I have a collaboration brew set the Saturday, and we'll can a few other beers for my buddy to take home. I'll take some pics to post.

I think the foot switch with a drill is a great idea. Will you fashion some sort of frame or stand to mount the drill for hands free operation?

Thanks

Yes, I plan to have the drill attached to a frame to make it hand free. Alternatively, if I have a motor kicking around that will work I may use that and a pulley to power it but still use the foot switch.

 

[Morrey]

I first created a label which I felt was too busy and had lots going on. I printed a small order and will use them of course. This simplified label is utilizing my logo as the focal point. Our horse farm is Cross Winds Farms so we named our brewery Cross Winds as well. The faint red line is the cut line so the label will rounded as shown. Matte material writes on easily with Industrial Sharpies as discovered and shared with me by @mongoose33. Best results come from writing on the label and allowing time to dry, then applying to an empty can (room temp) before filling with cold beer and seaming. I tried applying to cold, prefilled cans and the label didn't want to apply as evenly due to condensation. Note plenty of white space to write the name of the beer.

 

[applescrap]

Super cool. Glad i found this. I had researched cans before and this resparked my interest. I like how you got a nice canner. And the label is a wonderful touch. Also appreciate the figures.

I thought this is it. Ferment and can away. Nothing to sanatize (right?) disposable. Stockpile a beer store. there is so much more freedom with cans. My math has a 5g batch at adding 34 cents a beer to 51 beers in a batch. 17.6 dollars per batch using 88 for 256 and assuming 5 batches with said 256 cans.

 

[Morrey]

Super cool. Glad i found this. I had researched cans before and this resparked my interest. I like how you got a nice canner. And the label is a wonderful touch. Also appreciate the figures.

I thought this is it. Ferment and can away. Nothing to sanatize (right?) disposable. Stockpile a beer store. there is so much more freedom with cans. My math has a 5g batch at adding 34 cents a beer to 51 beers in a batch. 17.6 dollars per batch using 88 for 256 and assuming 5 batches with said 256 cans.

I frequently said bottling was my least favorite "chore" of the brewing process. Since I keg, I tried my best to avoid bottling except when sharing beer or packing to travel. The canner is awesome, and the cans offer no back pressure to foam over like the neck of a bottle. If you can get a decent pour from your tap, all is golden.

For the sake of being ol skool, I sometimes spritz star san into the can and let it drain before filling....not sure this is even necessary with a single use can. Some folks even shoot a blast of CO2 into the can, but I am not sure how effective this actually is. When you fill a can the process is to let the beer foam slightly and form a very thin head...maybe 1/4", not much. Put lid on top and you want a tiny bit of foam to spill over so the foam creates a CO2 barrier and O2 is mostly purged with this method.

If you opt for labels, you may want to budget in perhaps 20 cents for labels depending on your needs. This adds a personal touch but it is entirely possible you may choose to write on the blank can with a Sharpie.

 

[applescrap]

Looks like you can condition in the can? Haha, sorry for the gratuitous use of the word can.

Do you think you will still keg?

Also thanks a lot for the information.

 

[Morrey]

Looks like you can condition in the can? Haha, sorry for the gratuitous use of the word can.

Do you think you will still keg?

Also thanks a lot for the information.

I took a behind the scenes Beer Geek tour at Sierra Nevada in AVL last year and asked specifically if they condition in the can. Yes you can in the can...lol. Seriously, they said cans are mini kegs and are the perfect conditioning vessel. SN conditions in the can (refrigerated storage) before shipping to wholesalers.

Oh yes, I'll always keg as long as I brew - I love kegging systems. My can usage is limited to sharing and taking beer to events, etc. I enjoy fishing boats and find glass bottles very dangerous and cumbersome when the boat is in rough seas making cans the best choice. Some events don't allow glass bottles while cans are permitted.

Always glad to help.

 

[drez77]

Well, went and ordered the hand crank version. I have a 66RPM motor that I plan to hook up and see how that goes.

Now to decide on can size.

 

[jready]

Well, went and ordered the hand crank version. I have a 66RPM motor that I plan to hook up and see how that goes.

Now to decide on can size.

I really like the 16 oz can size 4 packs make nice take homes for friends

 

[smcinco]

Just received my hand crank version. Anyone want to do group buy on cans?!?

 

[Morrey]

I really like the 16 oz can size 4 packs make nice take homes for friends

I have been using the 12 oz cans, but also bought a box of 16 oz cans to try out. it may take a quick adjustment of the roller arms when shifting and changing shims on the AA, but I doubt there is much difficulty shifting between sizes.

Those 4 pk snap on lid holders are crazy expensive to buy online. I have a buddy saving me his to use for a 4 pk of cans.

 

[TravelingLight]

I have been using the 12 oz cans, but also bought a box of 16 oz cans to try out. it may take a quick adjustment of the roller arms when shifting and changing shims on the AA, but I doubt there is much difficulty shifting between sizes.

Those 4 pk snap on lid holders are crazy expensive to buy online. I have a buddy saving me his to use for a 4 pk of cans.

Two buddies! I got my brother saving them for you as well. You should be pretty stocked up here in the next month or so. Cheers.

 

[Morrey]

Two buddies! I got my brother saving them for you as well. You should be pretty stocked up here in the next month or so. Cheers.

Awesome! Drink more beer - save more 4 pk rings! Cheers!!

 

[jready]

I have been using the 12 oz cans, but also bought a box of 16 oz cans to try out. it may take a quick adjustment of the roller arms when shifting and changing shims on the AA, but I doubt there is much difficulty shifting between sizes.

Those 4 pk snap on lid holders are crazy expensive to buy online. I have a buddy saving me his to use for a 4 pk of cans.

I bought a box of the holders but have hardly used any as friends bring me them all the time. I’ve canned around 600 cans and have more holders than I started with!

 

[Morrey]

I bought a box of the holders but have hardly used any as friends bring me them all the time. I’ve canned around 600 cans and have more holders than I started with!

Wow...600 cans already? You turning that crank by hand or using a drill?

 

[jready]

Wow...600 cans already? You turning that crank by hand or using a drill?

I’ve got the Oktober canner. Had it for about 18 months.

End up sharing quite a bit with friends and beer drinkers on my team at work. I have 5 offices spread throughout KY and TN. Gotta keep my folks happy!

 

[Morrey]

I’ve got the Oktober canner. Had it for about 18 months.

End up sharing quite a bit with friends and beer drinkers on my team at work. I have 5 offices spread throughout KY and TN. Gotta keep my folks happy!

Awww, I forgot you had the "Cadillac" motorized Oktober canner. I'll keep spinning the hand crank for the time being. I watch Craigslist and occasionally something surprising like a canner pops up. I bought a 20G Blichmann kettle that was brand new in the box for half the retail price. Never know.

 

[drez77]

I really like the 16 oz can size 4 packs make nice take homes for friends

I ended up with 12oz cans. I just like them better for some reason. Can seamer gets here tomorrow! I found the motor I had, 63RPM so it should work fine for this I figure.