Home brew Vs. Commercial

[SpanishCastleAle]

And of course drinking a 25 cent beer that it took you many hours to make vs. the $1.50 commercial bottle influences your perception.

Most of the people itt must make some badass beer. My homebrew usually just isn't as good as a good craft brew. And my dog isn't very smart either. My farts stink to high heaven, but I will admit my dog's are even worse.

Musicians learn to play by copying other's music. That's one of the ways they get good at it. Cloning craft beers can be a learning experience.

 

[gr8shandini]

So far as cloning is concerned, I haven't done much, but coming up with the recipe yourself seems like it would be a good way to improve your palate and get familiar with ingredients. If you can pick apart a beer and recreate it, then you can create your own knowing what each piece of the puzzle adds to the whole.

It's kind of like jazz. You gotta know the rules before you can start improvising

 

[cruckin78]

Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)

I've brewed commercial clones that people could not tell the difference between the homebrew and the commercial. Point being, consistency is in the hands of the brewer. You can brew beer just as good as any craft brewery if you want to.

I love brewing beer, so I dont mind working and spending many hours to brew my beer. Just dont offer me the "It's good but it aint Bud Light" compliment, I will bounce you from my bar!

 

[TotemWolf]

Most of the people itt must make some badass beer. My homebrew usually just isn't as good as a good craft brew. And my dog isn't very smart either. My farts stink to high heaven, but I will admit my dog's are even worse.

Musicians learn to play by copying other's music. That's one of the ways they get good at it. Cloning craft beers can be a learning experience.

Real musician learn what makes good music and then make their own hits in their own style that everyone else loves.

The same is true for real brewers.

I don't copy. I improvise and write my own sheet music.:fro:

 

[Denny]

Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)

I think part of the issue is the definition of "commercial beer". To a lot of people, it means BMC. To me, it's Rochefort. Now, when you can brew a better beer than Rochefort, let me know.

 

[Denny]

Most of the people itt must make some badass beer. My homebrew usually just isn't as good as a good craft brew. And my dog isn't very smart either. My farts stink to high heaven, but I will admit my dog's are even worse.

Musicians learn to play by copying other's music. That's one of the ways they get good at it. Cloning craft beers can be a learning experience.

Agreed on all points. AND I've been a musician for 45 years.

 

[TotemWolf]

As far as I'm concerned, if I can't brew as good as any craft brewer then I'm doing something wrong or I just don't have the knowledge. Knowledge can always be gained. If I'm not brewing then studing about or planning how to brew.

The day one of my finished recipes taste worse that a beer from a brewery is the day I'll quite brewing!

 

[wildwest450]

Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)

I've brewed commercial clones that people could not tell the difference between the homebrew and the commercial. Point being, consistency is in the hands of the brewer. You can brew beer just as good as any craft brewery if you want to.

I love brewing beer, so I dont mind working and spending many hours to brew my beer. Just dont offer me the "It's good but it aint Bud Light" compliment, I will bounce you from my bar!

A lot of ass showing in this thread.


_

 

[TotemWolf]

I think part of the issue is the definition of "commercial beer". To a lot of people, it means BMC. To me, it's Rochefort. Now, when you can brew a better beer than Rochefort, let me know.

Give me another year or so and I'll take that challange! I'm working on perfecting my Trappist style ales right now. In fact as was just reading up on this morning. Rochefort 10 is one of my target brews.

 

[remilard]

Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)

Myself and SpanishCastleAle are two of the ones doing it wrong. I think we have something like 10 of the 840 NHC second round entries between us. If we are doing it wrong, we don't want to do it right.

 

[cruckin78]

I think part of the issue is the definition of "commercial beer". To a lot of people, it means BMC. To me, it's Rochefort. Now, when you can brew a better beer than Rochefort, let me know.

I'm workin on it man! But I have not been brewing for several hundred year either lol

Myself and SpanishCastleAle are two of the ones doing it wrong. I think we have something like 10 of the 840 NHC second round entries between us. If we are doing it wrong, we don't want to do it right.

Dude, i'm not trying to have a "who has a bigger Johnson" competition here...I have my opinion you have yours, but do not think you are the only ones here who's beers have done well at competition.

 

[remilard]

Dude, i'm not trying to have a "who has a bigger Johnson" competition here...I have my opinion you have yours, but do not think you are the only ones here who's beers have done well at competition.

Me either. I just thought you might like some background on the people you say are doing it wrong.

 

[brewit2it]

I make good beer but can buy great beer. I enjoy the process though so I will continue drinking good beer until it becomes better or great beer.

I agree fully. There is no way I make beer better than the best (my favorite) breweries. They have a huge advantages. I've tried a lot of homebrew over the years and some is pretty darn good, but I don't think I've ever had any as good as Anchor, or SN, or Stone, or Anderson Valley, or etc....

But I make some pretty good beer. I have friends tell me how great it is but a lot of that is the fact that it is draft (which is impressive and tastes better IMHO), and they are impressed with the fact that I made it. Most homebrew has flaws and I know mine does, but I love the hobby and the beer is better than just drinkable so I continue to brew (and drink).

 

[Denny]

As far as I'm concerned, if I can't brew as good as any craft brewer then I'm doing something wrong or I just don't have the knowledge. Knowledge can always be gained. If I'm not brewing then studing about or planning how to brew.

The day one of my finished recipes taste worse that a beer from a brewery is the day I'll quite brewing!

Arrogance. Send me one of your beers and let's see.

 

[Denny]

Give me another year or so and I'll take that challange! I'm working on perfecting my Trappist style ales right now. In fact as was just reading up on this morning. Rochefort 10 is one of my target brews.

Man, I've brewed over 400 batches of beer, a lot of which have been Rochefort clones. Some of those have been VERY good. But n one of them have been anywhere near as good as the real thing. I've been brewing for 14 years and still can't hit it and you think you;re gonna do it in a year?

 

[TotemWolf]

Man, I've brewed over 400 batches of beer, a lot of which have been Rochefort clones. Some of those have been VERY good. But n one of them have been anywhere near as good as the real thing. I've been brewing for 14 years and still can't hit it and you think you;re gonna do it in a year?

What was water profile? How many steps in your infusion? Did you buy your from the same malters? Do you use the same Belguim and German sugars that they use? So on and so forth. I've been studing their brew for over a year now. I'll brew my first batch later this fall.

I'm not trying to say I'm better than you or anyone else. The fact of the matter is if you devote yourself to perfecting something you will. It's that simple. That's all I'm saying.

 

[remilard]

What was water profile? How many steps in your infusion? Did you buy your from the same malters? Do you use the same Belguim and German sugars that they use? So on and so forth. I've been studing their brew for over a year now. I'll brew my first batch later this fall.

I'm not trying to say I'm better than you or anyone else. The fact of the matter is if you devote yourself to perfecting something you will. It's that simple. That's all I'm saying.

I think it is more that if your bar for perfect is very low, you'll perceive yourself as perfect more readily.

Maybe you are some ninja brewer. Everyone benches 300 on the internet though.

 

[Nightbiker]

I wouldn't say mine are better than any commercial offerings. I LIKE mine more -but part of that is because I made it, and I made what I was in the mood to drink. I cannot match the consistency of the 'big boys' though, and that is something I strive for.
I have made some very good beers, and I've made some that were at least drinkable (and one that was akin to carbonated pond water) I have been told that some of my brews were favorable to top-shelf offerings. I take that as a high compliment (or maybe they just wanted more beer). I have the option of brewing whatever I feel like brewing, with fresh ingredients and even home-grown hops. Commercial guys can't really get away with that kind of flexibility.

 

[scottland]

FACT: Most people believe their homebrew is better than it really is. One of the reasons why many people are discouraged when they enter competitions, they think they have a Best of Show beer, and they find out it's just 'Average' or 'Good'.

Now I'll follow that up with saying: There is some fantastic homebrewed beer out there. There are plenty of brewers that REALLY know what they are doing, and make some great beer.

But no, I don't feel the average homebrewed beer is better than the average commerical beer. The other problem with this argument, is which commerical beer are you comparing to? Do I think my pale ale is better than ________ pale ale? Well it acutally might be. It depends on which commercial pale ale we're talking about. Is my pale ale better than the best commercial pale ale on the market? I doubt it.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

FACT: Most people believe their homebrew is better than it really is. One of the reasons why many people are discouraged when they enter competitions, they think they have a Best of Show beer, and they find out it's just 'Average' or 'Good'.

Now I'll follow that up with saying: There is some fantastic homebrewed beer out there. There are plenty of brewers that REALLY know what they are doing, and make some great beer.

But no, I don't feel the average homebrewed beer is better than the average commerical beer. The other problem with this argument, is which commerical beer are you comparing to? Do I think my pale ale is better than ________ pale ale? Well it acutally might be. It depends on which commercial pale ale we're talking about. Is my pale ale better than the best commercial pale ale on the market? I doubt it.

I agree with the competition comment to an extent. It takes a lot to do well in a competition. But there are also cases where a judges comments are somewhat irrelevant to the overall quality of the beer.

I entered a couple saisons into nationals. On one I dry hopped with Nelson Sauvin hops. The judge said "man this beer is great.... but not true to style".... So I got a 32.

Was I discouraged? No. I know that that beer was a little out there for a saison. And that it wouldn't place because it didn't taste EXACTLY like dupont. But I know that it's a great beer. Not because I made it. Not because homebrewers can't admit making imperfect beer. But because at the end of the day it was a damn good beer that I would drink anytime over dupont.

 

[wildwest450]

The fact of the matter is if you devote yourself to perfecting something you will. It's that simple. That's all I'm saying.

I have to say, I agree. You've certainly perfected the art of making an ass of yourself on the internet. Please quit while you're way behind.


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[Ringmaster]

my latest batch of beer is better then any commercial brew i've had. I really love it when this happens!

 

[Denny]

What was water profile? How many steps in your infusion? Did you buy your from the same malters? Do you use the same Belguim and German sugars that they use? So on and so forth. I've been studing their brew for over a year now. I'll brew my first batch later this fall.

I'm not trying to say I'm better than you or anyone else. The fact of the matter is if you devote yourself to perfecting something you will. It's that simple. That's all I'm saying.

Similar water profile...close enough. That's something that's hard (and pointless) to worry about getting to close. Used the world fampous Herman Holtrop recipe, Belgian malts, and the same candi syrup. I understand what you're saying about practice and dedication, but there's "juju" involved, too. Here's an example...I'm pretty well known for a Rye IPA. Maybe you've heard, but that doesn't really matter. I've been given dozens (at least) versions of that beer that people have made. Not one has tasted like mine.

And to try to get back on topic a bit, like I said....maybe you can brew better beers than some commercial beers, but I don't think I've ever met a homebrewer who can brew better beers than some/all of the commercial beers out there.

 

[Denny]

my latest batch of beer is better then any commercial brew i've had. I really love it when this happens!

No offense, but that could say as much about your experience with commercial beers as your brewing skills.

 

[dancness]

Most commercial brewers cut corners to save money. You are using quality ingredients, sparing no expense to make awesome beer. Also a little TLC can go a long way when you are making something consumable from scratch. You can almost taste the effort put forth over several months in the final product.

That's the reason homebrew is better.

 

[emjay]

It's ugly baby syndrome... very few people are able to perceive their own beers honestly. It also helps that we get to drink our own beer when it's very, very, fresh, and also make it to suit our own tastes (and likewise, avoid ingredients and practices that we dislike), but for the most part it's just a mental blindspot that makes it nearly impossible for people to compare their own creations objectively.

To be able to mostly rise above this built-in bias requires a ton of hard work, dedication, and most importantly, an absolute and completely honest willingness to face the hard truth of just exactly how little all of one's time, effort, and money spent is actually amounting to. This doesn't just apply to beer, either... greatness can't really be achieved in anything as long as one continues to choose satisfied ignorance over frustrated awareness.

But as long as you're just homebrewing for yourself, there is no "right" choice, and if you can drink your own beer and feel that it's better than anything that can be bought, then it's great that you can enjoy it that much. We need to have that kind of lack of awareness in most aspects of our lives just to retain our sanity, and likewise, we need to carefully pick and choose a few - if any - for which the illusions we hold of our own capabilities are worth tearing down, in order to pursue true greatness.

 

[TotemWolf]

I have to say, I agree. You've certainly perfected the art of making an ass of yourself on the internet. Please quit while you're way behind.


_

If I am making an ass of myself, and I must be, I'm sorry. That was not my intent. Nor was it my intent to claim to be some uber-brewer. I apologize to anyone I may have offended.

My intent was to say if you go after something and try hard enough you can succeed.


Again sorry for coming off as an ass. With that I will leave this thread.

 

[Boy]

So this thread has been interesting but I guess I sucked it up on the OP.

My actual question is more along the lines of this scenario: You have a 1bbl brewery. You contract a 10bbl batch of one of your recipes. The contract batch goes through a more commercial process than your own batches on your 1BBL. If they did not taste the same, what would be the leading causes as to why?

Huge thanks for all of the replies.

 

[Yooper]

Give me another year or so and I'll take that challange! I'm working on perfecting my Trappist style ales right now. In fact as was just reading up on this morning. Rochefort 10 is one of my target brews.

Man, I've brewed over 400 batches of beer, a lot of which have been Rochefort clones. Some of those have been VERY good. But n one of them have been anywhere near as good as the real thing. I've been brewing for 14 years and still can't hit it and you think you;re gonna do it in a year?

Me either. I just thought you might like some background on the people you say are doing it wrong.

If I am making an ass of myself, and I must be, I'm sorry. That was not my intent. Nor was it my intent to claim to be some uber-brewer. I apologize to anyone I may have offended.

My intent was to say if you go after something and try hard enough you can succeed.

Again sorry for coming off as an ass. With that I will leave this thread.

Well, I have to say that one of the "problems" with the internet is the anonymity, the same reason it's great. I haven't met SpanishCastleAle in person, but I know remilard and denny.

Denny is a very "famous" brewer, and I bet you've read some of his writings. He's modest, but he's very well known in brewing circles. He's a great guy, too, who thinks I look good as a dominatrix, I believe.

Remilard is a kick-ass brewer, with a scientific approach. I've personally consumed some of his beer, and would say that his IIPA is much better than probably most commercial IIPAs.

I'm not saying that they should carry more weight! Not at all- this is a great forum and I love that we can all share. But I think to go back and forth with arguments on "I can make a beer as good as Chimay (or whatever)" is a bit silly.

For myself, I like my IPAs quite a lot and would consider most of them commercial quality. But some of my other styles need some work. I'm not great with porters or Belgians, that's for sure! I think that being able to tweak beers to my own personal liking means that I can easily suffer from "ugly baby syndrome". I may miss the marks for the style guidelines in some cases, but I don't care if I like the result! I"d make a terrible commerical brewer but I"m a decent homebrewer.

 

[brewit2it]

I think it comes down to the fact that the best beers in the world are the best beers in the world, so it is totally unrealistic to think you can sit at home with your brew pot, plastic bucket and a few sacks of grain, whip something up and say "of course mine is better, how could anyone even question me?"

It's kind of like saying "I picked a few items up at the Ralphs last night and whipped up a dinner that kicks the crap out of the tasting menu at The French Laundry. In your face Thomas Keller".

You can dedicate yourself, and certainly make better beer, but dedication alone isn't enough. I am completely satisfied knowing I can make beer I really enjoy. I am not pretentious enough to believe what I am making rivals the very best, but it is good enough for me and my friends and family to enjoy.