"home brew" taste. What's the deal?

[Yooper]

Science aside. I find they do get cleaner and the flavors come together better if I leave it a month in the fermentor, and that bottle ageing is not as nice.

How long do you leave them in the bottle before you feel they are best? For example a standard pale ale.

Edit: But it looks like you mostly Keg? So you are still 'aging' in bulk, which is what I am getting at.

I think what happens in the weeks after fermentation is mostly just solids like yeast and protean slowly falling out. The yeast are done. Off flavors will mellow in time but it will never be as good as it could have been without the mistakes that caused the off flavors in the first place.

For me, I make mostly hoppy APAs and IPAs. They tend to be best at 3-4 weeks or so after brewday. I do have a stout that needs a few more weeks to meld, so it's best at about 6 weeks after brewday and stays awesome until the keg is gone.

I don't think anything like autolysis will happen in 4-6 weeks in a fermenter at reasonable temperatures. I just don't think there is any benefit either, though, in a well-made ale.

Maybe people parrot the "month in the primary" trend without really noticing the differences. A well made beer may not be harmed in the least by a month-long primary but I still fail to see any benefit except that brewers can be lazy like winemakers! (I'm a winemaker- that's not an insult!)

 

[Yooper]

meant the quick retort, we expect better from our moderators Of course I was just kidding.

Ah! One of the reasons for my "quick retort" was me just being myself, I guess. I'm sick to death of people saying, "The reason your beer doesn't taste good is because you didn't leave it in primary for a year!" (slight exaggeration, but you get the point!)

A well made beer will taste a bit green in 10-14 days, yes. But the cause of a poor tasting beer is almost never a short time in the fermenter. It's far more likely to be poor ingredients, improper pitching temperature, improper pitching rates, bad water chemistry, too-high fermentation temperature, etc. Yes, that might clean up a wee bit with time. But no way you're going to get a great beer in a 4 week primary that was made poorly. It really really bugs me to hear that "time cures all beers". Trust me. It doesn't. Off-flavors may clean up a bit. But it's best to just not allow them in the first place.

 

[Cellarbrau]

Poor Yooper! You can't just tell the masses the world is round and not expect to be lynched.

 

[Sean]

A well made beer will taste a bit green in 10-14 days, yes. But the cause of a poor tasting beer is almost never a short time in the fermenter.

I Know it is nearly a Mortal sin to disagree with Yooper on this forum. But I do disagree. 14 days in the fermenter is fine; bottle or keg at that point, if the beer is done, and it should be. Generally if you drink it before 5 or 6 weeks it is not going to taste as clean, crisp and rounded as it will at 6 to 10 weeks. Depending on the beer most assuredly, but I mean pale ales and IPAs. And I am not talking about off flavors that do not belong in the beer.

YMMV.

 

[Cellarbrau]

Sean you are absolutely right in what you're saying but that's not the topic of this thread.

"That's a nice IIPA (RIS, Doppelbock, etc.). It's going to be fantastic in 6 months!"

And

"Umm. Yeah, this tastes sort of home made."

Two different things.

And since no one else likes to say them:

"Infected."

"Oxidized."

There I said it.

 

[drainbamage]

Oatsoda, could it be something as simple as your priming sugar that you are tasting? If you've ever tasted homebrew from a Mr. Beer kit (which usually uses only a couple pounds of LME and a ridiculous amount of corn sugar), it adds a distinct taste. Have you ever tried using a different priming sugar for bottling?

 

[PseudoChef]

Thanks for doing my work for me, Yoop! I'm kegging a beer right now that I brewed last Saturday. 8 days. 1.055 that got a bunch of roaring 1728, fermented in about 2 days at 68F, dropped, and now ready to go. I picked this yeast because it floccs like crazy - the American Ale yeast at 64 just finished, so I'll give it a couple more days.

I don't buy into the whole "bulk aging" thing, though. Look at a commercial brewery - the ones that OP wants his beer to taste like - they're pushing staple beers out as fast as they can, because they lose money if they don't. I don't taste "green" commercial beers. Expanding on this, listen to The Brewing Network's "Can You Brew It?" program - they're cloning many beers that were brewed in the span of 10 days. No one comments on them saying they're "green" - they say they taste like the commercial beers.

To give my thoughts on OP with my personal experience (which I'm in no way saying is applicable to everyone), I have found that "homebrew" flavor to mainly be gigantic glasses of yeast and/or protein haze.

Once my beers drop clear, I notice a remarkable world of difference. I find that excess yeast in suspension gives terrible phenolic and bitter notes while also negatively affecting the mouthfeel of the beer. While protein doesn't affect flavor directly, it can also affect the mouthfeel, which is a more critical component of the beer's final composition than I think some people like to give it credit for. Yes, not all commercial breweries filter - but they do let the bulk of that material drop out before the product hits packaging.

Of course time helps in this regard, but cold crashing and possibly fining are more effective.

 

[sudsmcgee]

I had an off flavor that I tracked back to two separate things:

1) I was using Brewers Best kits and they contained LME of who-knows freshness. I found these kits all had the same overall metallic flavor, which is gone with my AG brewing.

2) My water must have a high chlorine content. This resulted in an unpleasant bitter taste. Once I started either adding campden, or filtering the water with a charcoal filter, this too has stopped and my beers taste better than ever.

I also agree with Yooper that the 4-week primary "rule" is a little excessive. If your processes are good, you really only need about 2 weeks for most beers with an OG below 1.060 IME. Higher alcohol beers do take more time, and lower alcohol beers take less. I'm making BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde today and I plan on leaving it in the primary for 7 days and then kegging.

 

[bernerbrau]

Ah, the "homebrew taste." This is interesting, because my brother, still a noob, brought some bottles of his homebrew down from Kentucky, and the same weekend, we checked out a beer festival and sampled some brews from the homebrew stand. Damned if they didn't have that exact same flavor characteristic. I'd call it bananas with some phenolics and fusel alcohol. Drinkable, but only to a point. Mostly, this happens because the yeast are fermenting in a sub-optimal environment.

Here's what you can do to cut back on those "homebrew" flavors:

1. Pitch more yeast, even dry yeast. It is much easier to under-pitch than it is to over-pitch.
2. Ferment colder. Do whatever you can to get your temps down, even if it's just ghetto swamp cooler (wet t-shirt/desk fan combo).
3. Shake your wort vigorously for 5 minutes before pitching.
4. Re-check your sanitation practices. Try switching from star-san to iodophor, or boiling your equipment (the stuff that can handle a 15 minute boil, that is). If in doubt, sanitize. It's possible some of these "homebrew" flavors can come from a stray bug getting a shot at your wort.

 

[Yooper]

Ah, the "homebrew taste." This is interesting, because my brother, still a noob, brought some bottles of his homebrew down from Kentucky, and the same weekend, we checked out a beer festival and sampled some brews from the homebrew stand. Damned if they didn't have that exact same flavor characteristic. I'd call it bananas with some phenolics and fusel alcohol. Drinkable, but only to a point. Mostly, this happens because the yeast are fermenting in a sub-optimal environment.

Here's what you can do to cut back on those "homebrew" flavors:

1. Pitch more yeast, even dry yeast. It is much easier to under-pitch than it is to over-pitch.
2. Ferment colder. Do whatever you can to get your temps down, even if it's just ghetto swamp cooler (wet t-shirt/desk fan combo).
3. Shake your wort vigorously for 5 minutes before pitching.
4. Re-check your sanitation practices. Try switching from star-san to iodophor, or boiling your equipment (the stuff that can handle a 15 minute boil, that is). If in doubt, sanitize. It's possible some of these "homebrew" flavors can come from a stray bug getting a shot at your wort.

I also wonder if that "homebrew taste" is because of extract- either aged, or boiled too long so that there are some maillard reactions. Maillard reactions (those from "browning" like in caramelizing) are great in some beers- like Scottish ales. But in some beers, it causes what I consider a "homebrew" extract-y taste.

 

[Yooper]

I Know it is nearly a Mortal sin to disagree with Yooper on this forum. But I do disagree. 14 days in the fermenter is fine; bottle or keg at that point, if the beer is done, and it should be. Generally if you drink it before 5 or 6 weeks it is not going to taste as clean, crisp and rounded as it will at 6 to 10 weeks. Depending on the beer most assuredly, but I mean pale ales and IPAs. And I am not talking about off flavors that do not belong in the beer.

YMMV.

Heck, it's absolutely fine to disagree with me! This is a forum after all. If we all had the exact same opinion and experiences, it wouldn't be a forum. Plus, sometimes I'm just flat out wrong! (Not about this, though- ) But if you read what I wrote, and what you said- we actually seem to agree more than disagree.

It's true that sometimes beer that has aged a bit is "cleaner". That is usually because of yeast flocculation and perhaps some protein precipitation. If this happens at day 10, there would be no advantage to leaving the beer in the fermenter until day 30. That's my point- not that the beer won't be improved with a little bit of age in the bottle or keg, just that the widely repeated mantra of "keep your beer in the fermenter for a month at least or it won't be that good!" is a bit short-sighted.

I'm not sure I think of a yeasty beer as having that "homebrew" flavor. I've had the same experiences as Bernerbrau- going to a beer festival that had a homebrew booth. One or two of the beers were excellent- but most of them had a "homebrew" flavor. I didn't see any chill haze or yeast in suspension- it was more of a cooked extract-y flavor with a hint of sweetness. I'm thinking that is what the OP means by "homebrew" flavor, but as I mentioned, I've been known to be wrong!

 

[mparmer]

If you go back and look at the OP, he's saying that his Am Pales are tasting like his Porters? If that's the case, there's something way more wrong than anyone yet has put their finger on.
IMHO, He needs to look at his recipes, #1 and #2 needs to read Palmers How to brew and switch to AG. When I did extract batches, they were really good beers but I alway's noticed an unfinished fermenting like malty background regardless of style or aging. They didn't taste "the same" but that "wang" (as my swmbo called it) was typically always there.
Irregardless, bro, you'll get there, just keep tweaking, reading, learning and practicing brewing. It's the most fun hobby I've ever found.

 

[VABeerSnob]

I know exactly what you mean by that "home brew flavor." After almost four years of brewing I don't notice it anymore. Why? Some theories:
1. My beers have improved, along with my brewing techniques.
2. I have sampled many commercial beers that taste like my homebrew and some that weren't as good as my homebrew!
3. Or maybe I'm just used to it now.