Hofbrauhaus "Original" Helles Lager - Clone Recipe

[Mike123]

I love the Hofbrauhaus Original Lager served in their restaurants. I've browsed the forum for recipes already posted. Does anyone have a spot-on whole grain recipe that in your opinion, or better yet a tasting contest/group, considered very close to Hofbrauhaus' "Original" Lager? Thanks very much in advance if you do and would share that. Prost!

 

[SouthBounds]

I like it also. Enough so that I went to Munich to see what the real stuff tastes like. Not sure how to emulate their room temp serving though.

Dug this up on the interweb:

"This is right from the Hofbrau brewery. 90% Pils, 10% light Munich. Magnum hops 23-25 IBU, 60% at 58', 30% at 30, 10% at whirlpool. W34-70, OG 11.8, ferment at 9c for 6 days, cool to 7c, 10% krausen, maturation at 9c, lager at -1c for 3 weeks."

 

[SouthBounds]

Not sure how to emulate their room temp serving though.

After thinking about this, you could have a dedicated frig raised up to 46-ish degrees. Room temp glass.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I like it also. Enough so that I went to Munich to see what the real stuff tastes like. Not sure how to emulate their room temp serving though.

Dug this up on the interweb:

"This is right from the Hofbrau brewery. 90% Pils, 10% light Munich. Magnum hops 23-25 IBU, 60% at 58', 30% at 30, 10% at whirlpool. W34-70, OG 11.8, ferment at 9c for 6 days, cool to 7c, 10% krausen, maturation at 9c, lager at -1c for 3 weeks."

Thanks for posting this!!

 

[duncan.brown]

Not sure how to emulate their room temp serving though.

The chapter on beer dispensing in Eßlinger's Handbook of Brewing says that beer should be kept at 5 C (41 F) for a drinking temperature of 5 - 8 C (41 - 46 F), with the exact drinking temperature deepening on regional variations. Beer lines should also be kept at 5 C.

That seems consistent with the Hofbräu web site that says that the ideal serving temperature for Hofbräu original is 6 - 7 C.

You must have cold rooms!

 

[beersk]

I like it also. Enough so that I went to Munich to see what the real stuff tastes like. Not sure how to emulate their room temp serving though.

Dug this up on the interweb:

"This is right from the Hofbrau brewery. 90% Pils, 10% light Munich. Magnum hops 23-25 IBU, 60% at 58', 30% at 30, 10% at whirlpool. W34-70, OG 11.8, ferment at 9c for 6 days, cool to 7c, 10% krausen, maturation at 9c, lager at -1c for 3 weeks."

It's really served at room temp? IE 68F? I can't believe that...I don't understand why they'd go to the effort to ferment it cold and keep it cold throughout the entire process then let it warm up to serve it. I'm also surprised they'd use magnum hops throughout the entire boil and not something like mittelfreuh or tradition.

 

[beersk]

The chapter on beer dispensing in Eßlinger's Handbook of Brewing says that beer should be kept at 5 C (41 F) for a drinking temperature of 5 - 8 C (41 - 46 F), with the exact drinking temperature deepening on regional variations. Beer lines should also be kept at 5 C.

That seems consistent with the Hofbräu web site that says that the ideal serving temperature for Hofbräu original is 6 - 7 C.

You must have cold rooms!

This makes a lot more sense, frigeration temps of 40F or so for serving. I do really enjoy Hopfbrau Original also. Very yummy stuff. My absolute favorite, though, is Weihenstephaner Original.

 

[duncan.brown]

I'm also surprised they'd use magnum hops throughout the entire boil and not something like mittelfreuh or tradition

Yes, I would have thought they'd use more than just Magnum. Their web site says Herkules and Magnum (presumably for bittering), and Perle and Select (presumably flavor and aroma). It says the wort is 11.7 plato (1.047) from an infusion mash (no decoction!) to make a 5.1% ABV beer.

I had a few liters in Munich in January (my last overseas trip before lockdown...). This thread has inspired me to give it a go. I don't have any Herkules or Spalter Select, so I'll increase the Magnum for bittering and use Tettnanger for aroma.

 

[Immocles]

Yes, I would have thought they'd use more than just Magnum. Their web site says Herkules and Magnum (presumably for bittering), and Perle and Select (presumably flavor and aroma). It says the wort is 11.7 plato (1.047) from an infusion mash (no decoction!) to make a 5.1% ABV beer.

I had a few liters in Munich in January (my last overseas trip before lockdown...). This thread has inspired me to give it a go. I don't have any Herkules or Spalter Select, so I'll increase the Magnum for bittering and use Tettnanger for aroma.

I might have to do the same, but not for quite a few months. I always keep magnum and tettnanger on hand. I really wish my basement was cold all year round.

 

[SouthBounds]

It's really served at room temp? IE 68F?

Sorry, not exactly what I meant. They serve at higher temps than I typically keep mine at (38 degrees).

(no decoction!)

This seams to be an ongoing debate. I dug up a post with some german homebrewers having trouble replicating without decoction. This is above my paygrade however (only brewed 1 decoction).

 

[Jayjay1976]

I dreaded the thought of performing a decoction until I attended an advanced brewing class at my LHBS a few months back, the instructor brewed a Helles with two decoctions and it looked a whole lot easier that I thought it would be. The instruction was to pull 1/3 of "thick mash" and boil it for an hour. I was surprised to see that pulling "thick mash" just means stirring it up well then pulling a rough 1/3 using a saucepan as a ladle. No sweat! It looked so easy I think I might try it myself. Since I BIAB with full volume this means pulling about 2.5 gallons to a separate stock pot and using an induction hob to boil it and then dumping it back in. Heck, I could do that with pants on.

 

[duncan.brown]

I dreaded the thought of performing a decoction

I'd love to try decoction, but my problem is that I brew on an eHERMS system in my basement. Decoction means carrying a pot of thick mash up and down the stairs to a heat source, which I'm nervous about doing. That or carbon monoxide poisoning.

Getting OT, but I wonder if any has tried doing decoction in an electric boil kettle?

 

[Mike123]

I like it also. Enough so that I went to Munich to see what the real stuff tastes like. Not sure how to emulate their room temp serving though.

Dug this up on the interweb:

"This is right from the Hofbrau brewery. 90% Pils, 10% light Munich. Magnum hops 23-25 IBU, 60% at 58', 30% at 30, 10% at whirlpool. W34-70, OG 11.8, ferment at 9c for 6 days, cool to 7c, 10% krausen, maturation at 9c, lager at -1c for 3 weeks."

Thanks SouthBounds. I had found the same "recipe" on the internet, and I compared to the limited information on the brewery web page https://www.hofbraeu-muenchen.de/en/beer/hofbrau-original, and unless I missed something the only difference was the hops used. The website indicates Herkules, Perle, Magnum, and Select but not quantities and times for each. I have not decided yet which hops and times, so I am still sorting that out. The website indicates an infusion mash, so I plan to do that. No decoction step.

 

[TheMadKing]

I dreaded the thought of performing a decoction until I attended an advanced brewing class at my LHBS a few months back, the instructor brewed a Helles with two decoctions and it looked a whole lot easier that I thought it would be. The instruction was to pull 1/3 of "thick mash" and boil it for an hour. I was surprised to see that pulling "thick mash" just means stirring it up well then pulling a rough 1/3 using a saucepan as a ladle. No sweat! It looked so easy I think I might try it myself. Since I BIAB with full volume this means pulling about 2.5 gallons to a separate stock pot and using an induction hob to boil it and then dumping it back in. Heck, I could do that with pants on.

I have done several BIAB decoctions and I had much better luck pulling my decoctions with a kitchen strainer. There's enough liquid in the grains to boil as long as you're careful, it's hard to get the decoction thick enough otherwise to get any appreciable maillards from a full volume mash.

 

[Brooothru]

Thanks SouthBounds. I had found the same "recipe" on the internet, and I compared to the limited information on the brewery web page https://www.hofbraeu-muenchen.de/en/beer/hofbrau-original, and unless I missed something the only difference was the hops used. The website indicates Herkules, Perle, Magnum, and Select but not quantities and times for each. I have not decided yet which hops and times, so I am still sorting that out. The website indicates an infusion mash, so I plan to do that. No decoction step.

During the mid-late 90s and into the early 00s I traveled quite frequently to Germany on business, often to Munich usually visiting the Hofbrauhaus. This thread got me interested in trying to duplicate their lager (also the Dunkel if anyone has a close clone recipe!), so I ran the numbers through BeerSmith and everything looked great except for the color. I tossed in 4 oz of melanoidin just to see how it would change the color. It still seemed a little on the light side, about 4.4 SRM predicted. Granted, it's been at least 15 years, but I remember it being a shade darker.

As to BJCP style guidelines, it seems like Category 7C (Pale Kellerbier/Amber Kellerbeir) is the most appropriate with SRM 4.4 putting it squarely in the "Pale" group, but only with the addition of the melanoidin. It's probably splitting hairs, but I've been obsessing lately on attempting to stylistically match Continental lagers, and this fits nicely into that wheelhouse. Any thoughts?

Brooo Brother

 

[beersk]

Sadly decoction is not the answer. It might boost your melanoidins and darken the color, but it won't give you the flavor of the Hopfbrau Original or any of those German lagers. That comes from the low o2 + sauergut brewing method. I tried low o2 for a couple years, didn't get what I wanted, found out that you need the sauergut reactor/addition to the beer and thought, nope, that's a bit more than I'm wanting to put into this. So I quit doing it.

 

[Brooothru]

Sadly decoction is not the answer. It might boost your melanoidins and darken the color, but it won't give you the flavor of the Hopfbrau Original or any of those German lagers. That comes from the low o2 + sauergut brewing method. I tried low o2 for a couple years, didn't get what I wanted, found out that you need the sauergut reactor/addition to the beer and thought, nope, that's a bit more than I'm wanting to put into this. So I quit doing it.

By adding melanoidin and acidulated malts in small amounts (~4 oz per 5 gal. batch) you would achieve the same ends as doing a detoction mash. Looking at the predicted pH of this mash, using distilled water and CaCl/gypsum to build a water profile for light and malty beers, I needed either lactic acid or sauergut (acidulated) to bring it down. Since the Hofbrauhaus recipe specified a single infusion mash, arguably the addition of melanoidin may not be appropriate. I'm not sure where low O2 process enters the picture however.

As a side note, I was going through some old recipes and came across a Sam Adams clone of "Noble Pils" that I brewed many years ago which they 'retired' 2006 I believe. Except for the hops it was almost the exact same recipe. Sam used Spalt, Tettnang, Mittelfrueh and Saaz instead of Herkules, Perle, Magnum, and Select, but the malts, hopping rates, color, ABV% and water profile were nearly identical. Now I know why I liked Noble Pils (and HBH lager) so much back then. Prost!

Brooo Brother

 

[beersk]

By adding melanoidin and acidulated malts in small amounts (~4 oz per 5 gal. batch) you would achieve the same ends as doing a detoction mash. Looking at the predicted pH of this mash, using distilled water and CaCl/gypsum to build a water profile for light and malty beers, I needed either lactic acid or sauergut (acidulated) to bring it down. Since the Hofbrauhaus recipe specified a single infusion mash, arguably the addition of melanoidin may not be appropriate. I'm not sure where low O2 process enters the picture however.

As a side note, I was going through some old recipes and came across a Sam Adams clone of "Noble Pils" that I brewed many years ago which they 'retired' 2006 I believe. Except for the hops it was almost the exact same recipe. Sam used Spalt, Tettnang, Mittelfrueh and Saaz instead of Herkules, Perle, Magnum, and Select, but the malts, hopping rates, color, ABV% and water profile were nearly identical. Now I know why I liked Noble Pils (and HBH lager) so much back then. Prost!

Brooo Brother

I'm pretty sure Noble Pils was around much more recently than 2006. I remember just a few years ago getting it. I generally use lactic acid to adjust my mash pH, as it's predictable and easily measurable. Not sure if there would be a difference between that and something like 4oz of acidulated malt in the final beer or not. My guess is, no, there would be no discernible difference.

 

[Brooothru]

I came across an article in a magazine called "All About Beer" titled "What happens when it's time to let go of a beer brand?" It's a little long but chronicles a number of beer brands that fell out of favor at several craft breweries. Towards the end of the article they talk about Sam Adams and a contest called Brewer's Vault they ran in 2015 to bring back one of twenty-something beers they'd discontinued. They placed the demise of Noble Pils sometime around 2010. Scotch Ale was the most requested returnee. The story didn't end there however. The genesis of Noble Pils was actually a beer that Jim Koch collaborated with his daughter in 2007 to brew for her wedding that included all 5 noble hops. It was so popular with the wedding guests that it came out as a seasonal release, and later a year-round offering until it was retired. It did return for a brief time after the Brewer's Vault contest in limited release variety 6 packs along with Scotch Ale in January 2015, so that's probably where you saw it.

I agree with you about lactic acid being the easier "go-to" for acidification as opposed to acidulated malt. What I usually do when designing a recipe and the water profile I will use on that recipe is add ¼ to ½ pound of acidulated if the water profile looks like it will be too basic. Then, during the mash I'll take a pH reading to see if further acidification is needed to bring things into 5.2~5.6 territory. It's usually very close to optimum, and only twice (recently, actually) that the pH is lower than that range when I test and I still haven't figured out how that happened since my water is generally neutral to slightly alkaline.

In any event it got me all hot to brew either Noble Pils clone or Hofbrauhaus lager since they are so similar. Probably just do both!

Brooo Brother

 

[riceral]

As a side note, I was going through some old recipes and came across a Sam Adams clone of "Noble Pils" that I brewed many years ago which they 'retired' 2006 I believe. Except for the hops it was almost the exact same recipe. Sam used Spalt, Tettnang, Mittelfrueh and Saaz instead of Herkules, Perle, Magnum, and Select, but the malts, hopping rates, color, ABV% and water profile were nearly identical. Now I know why I liked Noble Pils (and HBH lager) so much back then. Prost!

Brooo Brother

OK. Now you have my interest.

Any chance on sending along the recipe for "Noble Pils"?

 

[Brooothru]

Sure thing. I only used 4 Noble hops, ‘cause there’s disagreement on whether there are truly more than that (i.e., Hallertau, Saaz, Spalt and Tettnang) with some people considering Fuggles and/or East Kent Goldings to be at least “noble-like”. I’m sure Jim Koch added one of these to the mix in Noble Pils. The water profile I used was R.O. adjusted for light and malty with CaSO4 and CaCl added to reach ~50ppm calcium and about 1 gram NaHCO3to keep the acidity in check. White Labs 830 German Lager was the yeast.

Noble Pils

5.6 gal/21.2 l batch size

5# Weyermann German Pilsner 1.6 SRM
3# Weyermann Pale Malt 3.5 SRM


Mash 45C/113F :05 min
62C/145F :40 min
72C/162F :20 min
76C/169F :15 min

:75 min boil

1.00 oz. Spalt Select 4.2% AA (FWH)
1.00 oz. Tettnanger Tettnang 2.7% AA :30 min)
0.50 oz. Hallertau Mittelfrueh 3.8% AA :05 min)
0.50 oz. Saaz 2.8% AA :05 min)
0.50 oz. Hallertau Mittelfrueh (Whirlpool :20 min)
0.50 oz. Saaz (Whirlpool :20 min)

Ferment 10 days* @ 10C/50F
7 days* – cap and spund @ 14 psig, 22C/72F (note: +2C increase per day)
30 days* – lager @ 3C/38F (note: -2C decrease per day)
(*timing is approximate, monitor gravity; cap and spund ~5 pts before FG and start D-rest)

OG 1.045
FG. 1.009
ABV 4.7%
IBU 26.9 (calc)
SRM 4.4 (est)

It's been at least 5-6 years since I formulated and brewed this recipe but I remember it as being solid and very close to the original. Looking at it now it should make a very competitive Helles or Pale Kellerbier entry in a BJCP sanctioned contest. Let me know how it comes out if you brew it. I think I'll put it back in the rotation soon.

Brooo Brother