High Maltose Syrup for Yeast Starters?

[Protos]

Gentlemen, what's your opinion on making a yeast starter on High Maltose Syrup?
I'm out of malt extracts and canned wort, but I have a shutlleload of corn-derived High Maltose Syrup (the kind the big guys use in their mass lagers).
I know that yeasties suffer if propagated on simple Sucrose/Dextrose medium, but this is High Maltose, it must be as good for making starters as LME, huh?

 

[IslandLizard]

Any indication of the actual maltose percentage or an ingredient breakdown?
That would tell us much more about its suitability for beer/starters than just the term "high maltose." It's pretty much meaningless like that.

For example, if normal syrup is 1% maltose and high maltose syrup is 10%, yup it's a lot higher (10x), but may still not be all that suitable for starters.

 

[Protos]

On the label, they say it's made of Corn, Barley Malt and Water.
And they list Maltose, Glucose, Fructose, Sucrose, Dextrins, Ferments, Aminoacids and Fats as constituents (not providing percentages though). It looks not so different from LME it seems.

 

[IslandLizard]

Per FDA ingredient standards that would indicate Maltose has the highest percentage. Could be 30%, the balance made up of the other sugars and Dextrin, none exceeding 30%.

Maybe give it a try, an add some extra yeast nutrients, just in case.

 

[IslandLizard]

Oh, lookie...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-maltose_corn_syrup
"To be given the label "high", the syrup must contain at least 50% maltose. Typically, it contains 40–50% maltose, though some have as high as 70%."

 

[MaxStout]

Without knowing the percentages of fermentables (and thus not being able to calculate its mass) it would be guesswork for building a starter. It would work, just no way of knowing how much you have.

 

[Protos]

Yes, they indicate that Maltose is the base ingredient but give no percentages. It's not a FDA-regulated product (not intended for selling at the US market), so who knows what they really mean by "High", the FDA standards just don't apply. What if it differs from the common wort significantly and the yeasties won't like it...

Well, it seems less risky to brew a pico-batch of true wort for my starter.
And the Syrup, I'll try it in Cream Ales in place of adjuncts.

 

[IslandLizard]

And the Syrup, I'll try it in Cream Ales in place of adjuncts.

I'd rather use it for starters than for beer... especially when syrups are old(er). After cold crashing and decanting the starter beer, there's very little that gets transferred to the batch.

 

[Protos]

That's right, too.
It seems the only way to decide is to make an experiment: to propagate one starter on real wort and another on the syrup. And then smell and taste the difference thoroughfully.

 

[Vale71]

Sounds like LME made from barley and an unknown percentage of a cheap adjunct (corn). Corn is low on protein so depending on how much they used in the mash the resulting syrup might be a bit low on aminoacids. This can be remedied with a generous helping of nutrients.

Unless they used synthetic amylase we can assume at least 40-50% barley malt to achieve full conversion. Without knowing where the "Valley of Tears" is actually located in the real world it's hard to tell if amylase additions would be allowed by local regulations.