High Chloride to Sulfate Ratio

[Cardog]

So I am starting to really wrap my head around water profiles and the effects to each mineral. We've all talked about sulfate to chloride ratio and its effects with some being 5:1 (and higher) but I have yet to read anywhere of the effects of just the opposite. I understand the ideal range for chloride is 10-100 ppm. So if I was going for a malt forward beer, it would suggest maybe a 2:1 ratio of chloride to sulfate at most. No one ever talked about and more importantly, what my beer be like if it was 5:1 chloride to sulfate say for an example 100 ppm of chloride to 20 ppm of sulfate.

Another question is, as it has been stated, that a ratio of 1:1 with 50 ppm of each is not the same as 200 ppm of each. OK, I understand that but what is the effect on the beer with high concentrations of each and low concentrations of each.

Actually, you know what be great? If somebody wrote a sticky about the effects of each salt on how a beer taste in relation to specific concentrations. As an example: I haven't read anywhere where it allowed me to understand what my beer would taste like if I had 10 ppm of chloride vs if I had 150 ppm of chloride. And same thing with the above statement if I had 20 ppm of sulfate vs 300 ppm of sulfate (with the same Cl/SO4 ratio) or even Calcium for that matter.

 

[SilverZero]

There's plenty of talk about Cl/SO4.

Example: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=235979

My preference is to keep Cl low (under 50ppm) regardless of style, and alter the SO4 concentration to taste. Maybe around 50ppm or a 1:1 ratio for malty beers, and up in the 200s or even 300-ish for hoppy beers. It helps to bring out the bite, I find.

Like you said, the ratio is only part of the equation, and really it's the concentrations that are important. And, ultimately, the ingredients have the biggest impact. Want more malty flavor? Add more malt. More hoppy bite? Add more hops at the right times.

There is a sticky or two about this, by the way.

 

[303Dan]

I've gone to both extremes.

For a "Northeast" IPA I just did, trying to imitate the softer, rounder mouthfeel of those beers, I went 200ppm Chlorides and 50ppm Sulfate. I definitely got the desired result. In fact, I think I could have gone even farther. I definitely don't pick up on any excessive minerality in the beer.

I will also pretty regularly go north of 300ppm Sulfate on a West Coast IPA. That definitely enhances the perception of dryness and the hops will give you a more pronounced, sharp bittnerness.

I guess, really, it just depends on what your goal is for a particular beer. Most styles would probably not get any benefit from being that extreme with your water chemistry, or at least they would start to taste outside the style guidelines. I would say the vast majority of beers I do outside those styles above are way more "balanced" in terms of the Chlorides and Sulfates, and far less concentration overall.

I'm not sure I really answered your question, but for what it's worth....

 

[Cardog]

There's plenty of talk about Cl/SO4.

Example: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=235979

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. The rest of your message I have read a thousand times and didn't answer my Q's.

 

[Cardog]

I've gone to both extremes.

For a "Northeast" IPA I just did, trying to imitate the softer, rounder mouthfeel of those beers, I went 200ppm Chlorides and 50ppm Sulfate. I definitely got the desired result. In fact, I think I could have gone even farther. I definitely don't pick up on any excessive minerality in the beer.

Thank you, you just don't see people making beers this way and just needed more info on the character of this concentration. Maybe IPA's is the craft brew of choice nowadays. I have often asked why they have 3 times more IPA's on the menu than brown ales and the answer I get.....it's what sells.

 

[Homercidal]

Thank you, you just don't see people making beers this way and just needed more info on the character of this concentration. Maybe IPA's is the craft brew of choice nowadays. I have often asked why they have 3 times more IPA's on the menu than brown ales and the answer I get.....it's what sells.

No doubt IPAs are popular, but also consider that there are many variations of malt character and body, plus the dizzying array of different kinds of hops.

I think the main reason there are so many IPAs is that there are simply more options for making IPAs than brown ales. People want to try the different combinations.