High Attenuation

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Dennisusa

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My home-brewed ales are consistently attenuating well beyond Wyeast published ranges and I wondered if dry-hopping could be the explanation. Here’s a concrete case study (my most current pale ale) to illustrate my point:


  • Malt Bill = 92% American 2-Row, 8% Crystal 60L
  • Mashing = Single-step at 156 F (Herms recirc for 1 hr @ ~ 1.75 quarts/pound)
  • Yeast = Wyeast 1056, stir-plate starter to ~ 375 Billion cells
  • Fermentation = Oxygenated with stone in the fermenter and yeast pitched @ 62F. Allowed wort to rise over 3 days to 68 F; final week at 70 F while simultaneously dry-hopping, 2-week total time in fermenter before crash-chilling
  • Brew house = PID-controlled Herms using standard Sanke keggles
  • Fermenter = Standard sanke keg modified with Darrin’s tri-clamp fermenter kit (Brewershardware). Temperature controlled with Ranco controller - never more than 1 F wort variance from set point - as measured by sensor in thermowell

Wyeast publishes the max attenuation for 1056 at 77%, which with my OG of 1.062 would produced an FG of 1.016 and an ABV of 6.0% (per Beersmith). Instead, my FG is 1.011, my apparent attenuation iis 81.4% and my ABV is 6.7%. This is nuts! The attenuation I’m getting seems more in line with Belgian strains fermenting at higher temperatures than APAs fermenting in the 60’s. I deliberately optimize attenuation by: (1) generous yeast starter pitching rates, (2) thorough wort oxygenation, and (3) fermentation temperature control in an upward-only direction (all preached by JZ) - but the numbers I’m getting just seem too high. This is why I’m suggesting dry-hopping could be factor.

Following the addition of pellet hops to the fermenter I clearly see a dramatic increase in CO2 blow off (4 oz of pellets, in this case). Most literature attributes this to dissolved CO2 outgassing as a result of the sudden introduction of nucleation sites to the wort - with the implication that this is therefore not proof of additional fermentation in and of itself. I’m unconvinced. While pellet hops do indeed provide nucleation sites and therefore spur outgassing (duh), I don’t see how the increased movement and agitation of CO2 through the wort would not inhibit the yeast’s proclivity to flocculate. Much like a stir-plate prevents yeast from dropping out of suspension, the increased activity and motion of gases inside the fermenter would likely slow yeast from dropping out of suspension. We also know that there is a strong correlation between flocculent yeast strains and attenuation percentages. So if outgassing inhibits flocculation, why would it not consequently maximize attenuation?

For purposes of this discussion, I ask that we assume accurate equipment readings (I used both hydrometer & refractometer) and the absence of bacterial or wild yeast contamination as factors influencing our conclusions.
 
Next time, split the batch and dry hop one, not the other. (you can dry hop the second one later after the experiment).

I'm not buying the dry hop theory though. Maybe you are treating your yeast better than Wyeast expects you to, or Wyeast numbers are conservative (although ~75% is what I usually get), or your hydrometer is not linear (I had this once). I don't trust refracts in beer, ever. Or, maybe you have a wild yeast in your beer :)
 
I deliberately optimize attenuation by: (1) generous yeast starter pitching rates, (2) thorough wort oxygenation, and (3) fermentation temperature control in an upward-only direction (all preached by JZ) - but the numbers I’m getting just seem too high.

I don't buy the whole dry hop thing either and I personally have never experienced anything suggested by that. Since you want to avoid discussion/assume non-issue with accurate readings, etc. I will suggest you are pitching slightly higher than necessary and possible adding a little too much O2 and are getting better than expected attenuation as a result. Remember that the numbers listed on yeast strains are averages expected for a typical batch of beer. There are times when these numbers are exceeded or not met. They are meant to be used as guides for decision making.

Personally I would look into your mash temperature accuracy or the possible loss of temperature over time producing a more fermentable wort than you think. Even a couple degrees will make a big difference.
 
This discussion is kinda on hold until you take a gravity reading before and after dry-hopping.

Personally I wait until fermentation is definitively finished before dry hopping. I don't want to dry hop with yeast in solution because I've found that as they settle out, the beer becomes less hoppy, especially in aroma. I usually crash the yeast out and either dry hop with whole hops in the keg, or pellets in a secondary fermentor.
 
I'm with the guy above who mentioned double checking your thermometer used for mash temp. I've found that whenever I use 1056 when mashing from 151-155, I always seem to end up with FG in the 1.010 range.
 
I always get higher attenuation than the published values, mostly due to those improved techniques you mention, I'll bet. Remember that apparent attenuation is super relative- attenuation numbers mean very different things at the high and low ends of beer OG.
 
Komodo - If you're a "yeast technician", can you confirm that yeast that is kept from settling out (typically by mechanical stirring) attenuates higher than yeast allowed to settle? And if you agree with that statement, can you explain why yeast kept from settling out by the CO2 agitation would not likewise improve attenuation?
 
Dennis, the definitive solution was given to you by passedpawn - one batch split in two, dry hop one and leave one without dry hops. This would tell you if your theory about dry hopping and attenuation is true.
 
No need for split batches. Check your gravity before and after dryhopping. Unless you are dryhopping prior to your beer finishing this should clear up any confusion. Just speculating but if your dryhopping before the beer is finished maybe the off gassing is helping to keep the yeast in suspension and thus eeking out a few points more. I ferment most of beers with 05 (Chico) and I typically finish at over 80%, even the hopslam clone I just brewed (1.101 og) is down to 1.018. I do mash low (150) as I prefer dry hoppy beers though.
 
How often do you check/calibrate your thermometers? I'm with the others. Do proper ice bath and boiling water checks (distilled water if you have it) and report back.
 
No need for split batches. Check your gravity before and after dryhopping. Unless you are dryhopping prior to your beer finishing this should clear up any confusion. Just speculating but if your dryhopping before the beer is finished maybe the off gassing is helping to keep the yeast in suspension and thus eeking out a few points more. I ferment most of beers with 05 (Chico) and I typically finish at over 80%, even the hopslam clone I just brewed (1.101 og) is down to 1.018. I do mash low (150) as I prefer dry hoppy beers though.

Good to know Matt, and thank you for sharing. Now I don't feel so alone. If you're getting 80% attenuation with a high grav brew, it bolsters the other contributors' comments that Wyeast ranges are too conservative. Your before/after dry-hopping experiment is exactly what I'm going to try - as I only have one Sanke fermenter setup that lives in a tiny Ranco-controlled kegerator. And your comment about my possibly getting a few more gravity points due to additional suspension time is what I was hoping a forum-member already had solid data on.

I'm so encouraged by your numbers that when I brew my first Saison I might skip the sucrose addition and still be able to hit single digit numbers (especially because I would double-step that mash).

When I get around to running this experiment I'll post the results here. Thanks to all who contributed.
 
Dennis - All I know is that I always seem to get higher attenuation rates than whats published. I make big starters, use O2, and usually do a sugar addition after main krausen has fallen on my Belgians.
 

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