HERMS Mash Recirculating Time & Temperature

[Vintage63]

I have been brewing on a More Beer 10 gallon HERMS system for a coupe of years and have always wondered if other brewers recirculate during the entire mash (other than mash out). A pro-brewer lives a few houses away and told me that recirculating during the mash to maintain temp was not recommended because the wort would be travelling through the heat exchanger sitting in water hotter than the target mash temp. For example, if the target mash was 152 and the HLT water temperature was 160 -162, the temperature of the wort being circulated would become higher due to contact in the coil. Therefore, eliminating the 152 target. Does this make sense?

So, I wanted to reach out and get some feedback on what other B3 sculpture brewers are doing during the mash? I definitely haven't found much on the net related to this process.

I have heard a little bit of chatter that people run the recirculation pretty much the entire time and hold the HLT temp about 5 degrees warmer than their target temp?

Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[milldoggy]

I set my hlt@ 152 if I am mashing at 152 and recirc the whole time. Why do you have it at 162?

 

[Vintage63]

I typically set the HLT temp slightly higher than the target mash temp because of heat loss in the lines while the pump is on and recirculating. I have a 10 gallon batch set for tomorrow. I'll give it a try to have the HLT water set at the same target mash temp and see how it goes.


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[acidrain]

I set mine 1 or 2 deg. higher than the mash target (depending on how cold it is outside).
I usually recirculate in 10 minute periods, with an aggressive stir and 5 minute rest after each period.

Ask your pro-brewer friend how he maintains mash temp... probably with a jacketed MT. Not that different from what you are doing... just on a smaller scale.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Ive done it several different ways and keeping the temperature really seems to matter more when you have allot of grain and Ive also place temp probes in several places during the mash and there is difference's where the probe is placed so for my sanity in keeping things perfect I just read the probe on the rims tube not the mash its self and not the out ballvalve an I just set the temp for what my recipe calls for

 

[milldoggy]

You should not be losing the much heat. Once you hit temp, the recirc should hold temp. Maybe try some reflectix around the mash tun and hlt. I use it in my mash because it does help keep things a little more stable.

 

[augiedoggy]

Same here... If I want my mash to be 151 for example I set my rims pid to no higher than 152.... there is a 1-2 degree fluctuation from the lines and such I believe. Of course I use a cooler which is cosmetically inferior but functionally superior to the stainless mash tuns so I dont have to account for all the high temp loss issues. I seen one guy actually remove the plastic liner out of his cooler and isert a stainless pot to line the cooler with stainless... slick setup but the exterior is the real reason many feel compelled to go stainless myself included... However I tell myself its about the beer not the "bling" factor. This place is a bad influence though...

 

[winvarin]

I also have the MoreBeer 10 gal system. I'm in the 1-2F above mash temp camp for my HLT. The thermal mass of grain and water will keep things steady.

If I'm mashing at 152, I usually set my HLT to 153 and recirculate for the entire mash. I rarely see the temp on my MLT tun probe or dial thermometer drift by more than 1 or 2 degrees.

My thought is that the HERMS heat transfer is pretty passive. You're just passing your wort through a copper tube that is immersed in water only slightly warmer than the wort. I can't see where the slow fluctuation affect fermentability significantly.

When it's time to mash out and sparge, I kick the temp on my HLT to 172, and run the MLT burner as low a I can get it, just to speed the ramp up to mash out temps.

I use the same process regardless of mash temp and have never had an issue holding temp or getting my desired degree of fermentability of my beers.




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[turkeygecko]

I have been brewing on a More Beer 10 gallon HERMS system for a coupe of years and have always wondered if other brewers recirculate during the entire mash (other than mash out). A pro-brewer lives a few houses away and told me that recirculating during the mash to maintain temp was not recommended because the wort would be travelling through the heat exchanger sitting in water hotter than the target mash temp. For example, if the target mash was 152 and the HLT water temperature was 160 -162, the temperature of the wort being circulated would become higher due to contact in the coil. Therefore, eliminating the 152 target. Does this make sense?

So, I wanted to reach out and get some feedback on what other B3 sculpture brewers are doing during the mash? I definitely haven't found much on the net related to this process.

I have heard a little bit of chatter that people run the recirculation pretty much the entire time and hold the HLT temp about 5 degrees warmer than their target temp?

Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks!

Whether or not you must set HLT temp higher than mash target depends on your flow rate. In my last system, I had a 3/8 inch HERMS coil and had to keep HLT temp about 5 degrees higher than target mash temp to maintain mash temp. The 3/8 inch did not move enough volume through to maintain mash temp.

I switched the 3/8 inch HERMS coil out for a 1/2 inch coil, and now I can keep temperature of HLT exactly at targeted mash temp. So, with this new coil, your buddy's concern does not apply.

But let's say I was forced to keep HLT temp higher to maintain mash temp. I don't agree with your buddy saying its a problem. First of all, you mash to convert starch to sugar. The grain/starch is in the mash tun... not much running through the HERMS coil, right? I mean, you can say there will be trace amount of starch running through coil, but >95% is sitting in the mash tun.

Secondly, a given volume of wort probably spends a couple seconds in the HERMS coil before it reenters the mash tun, where it will stabilize to target mash temp. We mash for 60-90 minutes to convert starch to sugar. A couple of seconds at a higher temp would not, in my opinion, affect the final product. If it did, I would propose mashing for 60 seconds instead of 60 minutes!

Interested in what others think about this.

Drew

 

[winvarin]

Whether or not you must set HLT temp higher than mash target depends on your flow rate. In my last system, I had a 3/8 inch HERMS coil and had to keep HLT temp about 5 degrees higher than target mash temp to maintain mash temp. The 3/8 inch did not move enough volume through to maintain mash temp.



I switched the 3/8 inch HERMS coil out for a 1/2 inch coil, and now I can keep temperature of HLT exactly at targeted mash temp. So, with this new coil, your buddy's concern does not apply.



But let's say I was forced to keep HLT temp higher to maintain mash temp. I don't agree with your buddy saying its a problem. First of all, you mash to convert starch to sugar. The grain/starch is in the mash tun... not much running through the HERMS coil, right? I mean, you can say there will be trace amount of starch running through coil, but >95% is sitting in the mash tun.



Secondly, a given volume of wort probably spends a couple seconds in the HERMS coil before it reenters the mash tun, where it will stabilize to target mash temp. We mash for 60-90 minutes to convert starch to sugar. A couple of seconds at a higher temp would not, in my opinion, affect the final product. If it did, I would propose mashing for 60 seconds instead of 60 minutes!



Interested in what others think about this.



Drew

I agree. I have a 1/2 in HERMS coil. It's the MoreBeer convoluted coil. HERMS is all about temperature stability. The bulk of the wort as you say, stays in the mash. If constant recirculation with your coil sitting at a higher temp was going to result in radically elevated mash temps, you'd think it would show itself in the temp of the full mash.

My experience with my system says that's just not the case.



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[Codfishhead]

I was doing the same with a 1/2" ss coil but have since put a burner under the tun n just add a small flame and recirculate from bottom to top. Trickle recirculate the entire time n it runs clean as can be. Then gravity feed it off nice n slow. The pump to get it up into the boil pot. Holds at exactly whatever temp I want. I think I get great control like this.

Last night it was 40 and dropping while I was brewing in my garage. Even whole opening the door up I stayed between 151 n 153.

Big fan of recirculating