Help with NEIPA recipe

[Rladd]

Going to have a brew day here soon and want to attempt a NEIPA. This is what I came up with:

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.071
Final Gravity: 1.021
ABV (standard): 6.59%
IBU (tinseth): 65.75
SRM (morey): 7.28

FERMENTABLES:
7.5 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (57.4%)
2.5 lb - Flaked Oats (19.1%)
1.25 lb - German - Caramel Pils (9.6%)
13 oz - American - White Wheat (6.2%)
10 oz - Canadian - Honey Malt (4.8%)
6 oz - American - Victory (2.9%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 6.99
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.96
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 8.73
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 21.35
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 18.73
1 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
2 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Sparge, Temp: 154 F, Time: 60 min,
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
White Labs - London Ale Yeast WLP013

NOTES:
Split dry hops-

Add the following during peak primary fermentation for 4 days:

1oz Mosaic
1oz Galexy
.5oz Citra

Add the rest in secondary fermentation for 4 days:

1oz Mosaic
1oz Galexy
.5oz Citra

Anything need to be changed?

 

[marjen]

You might want to use a different bittering hop like columbus during the boil. Save the galaxy/mosiac/centenial for the whirlpool or even better the dry hop. Also might want to up the dry hop amounts to maybe double.

 

[Rladd]

How does the grain bill look? And, how does this hop schedule look:

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 13.14
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 21.35
1 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 180 °F, IBU: 18.73
2 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
3 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
3 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

IBU: 53

NOTES:
Split dry hops-

Add the following during peak primary fermentation for 4 days:

1.5oz Mosaic
1.5oz Galexy
1oz Citra

Add the rest in secondary fermentation for 4 days:

1.5oz Mosaic
1.5oz Galexy
1oz Citra

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I don't really see the point of the Caramel Pils, or at least not that much of it. Also, I think your honey malt addition is a bit large for this style. I use 4 oz in 5 gal. Are you used to using honey malt? If not, it can be easy to overdo it.
I guess it depends what you are aiming for. Remember, most NEIPAs are supposed to by on the dry-ish side, not heavy-bodied or sweet.
That said, it's your beer, and if you want a full-bodied, sweeter NEIPA, have at it!

 

[Rladd]

I've only used honey wheat one other time in a wheat beer of mine, turned out pretty good. I used .5lb in 5gal. But, I'd like it to be close to a typical NEIPA. I'll cut out the honey and cara pils. Is victory good to keep in it?

 

[Rladd]

How does whirlpooling add bitterness and not hops added at FO? Would you take the hops out using a bag once it's cooled to 180? Then whirlpool..

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Bear in mind this is only one brewer's opinion, but I have had success making some delicious NEIPAs lately.

Regarding the caramel pils (or did you mean carapils - I'm pretty sure they are different), if you want a little crystal malt, that's fine, but keep it to half a pound or less for this style.

I have limited experience with Victory malt, but I think it kinda occupies the same "space" as honey malt, so I would pick one or the other but not both, and go with a half pound or less.

Here is my grain bill to give you an idea of how I approach it. There a a million ways to skin the cat, so to speak, so definitely find your own way:
8 lb 2-row Pale
3 lb Vienna (adds a little malty backbone without sweetness, plus a little deeper color)
1 lb flaked oats (body, mouthfeel, appearance)
1 lb flaked wheat (body, mouthfeel, appearance)
1 lb honey (actual honey, not honey malt) (adds some flavor and boosts alcohol - most brewers use a little white sugar, I prefer honey)
4 oz honey malt (compliments the honey and adds some nice color)

Most important thing: have fun with it, and it will take a couple of batches to nail down a preferred malt bill for your tastes.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

How does whirlpooling add bitterness and not hops added at FO? Would you take the hops out using a bag once it's cooled to 180? Then whirlpool..

I personally don't whirlpool anymore. I've tried it and I found it to be additional hassle and time that doesn't add anything I can't get through simpler/faster methods. YMMV, and other swear by it.
The last time I whirl[pooled, I got a lot more bitterness than I wanted.
Instead, I use a flameout addition and those hops just go along for the ride through the whole temperature range of the chilling process. That will lend some bitterness too, depending on how long your chill process takes, but I don't want to bother with whirlpooling anymore.

I use a single 15 minute addition, flameout additions, and two stage dry hopping. That's it. Again, there are a million methods. Find what works for you.

 

[Rladd]

I appreciate the input! I'll work on the recipe a bit more and brew it. I'm sure it'll take a few tries to get one to my liking. Thank you!

 

[marjen]

Instead, I use a flameout addition and those hops just go along for the ride through the whole temperature range of the chilling process. That will lend some bitterness too, depending on how long your chill process takes, but I don't want to bother with whirlpooling anymore.

Thats interesting. I might try that once I kind of get my NE IPA recipe down. I have kind of wondered what the difference would be. Also considering trying a 30 minute boil. I currently only add .25oz of columbus at 60 mins. Could just add it at 30 in a 30 min boil or even double it to .5oz in a 30 min boil and probably get the same effect. I am doing extract with seeped grains so 30 mins would probably be plenty for the extract malt.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Thats interesting. I might try that once I kind of get my NE IPA recipe down. I have kind of wondered what the difference would be. Also considering trying a 30 minute boil. I currently only add .25oz of columbus at 60 mins. Could just add it at 30 in a 30 min boil or even double it to .5oz in a 30 min boil and probably get the same effect. I am doing extract with seeped grains so 30 mins would probably be plenty for the extract malt.

I've done 30 minute boils on NEIPA and it works fine. In this style, my longest hops boil is 15 min. (15 min, flameout, two-stage dryhop).

 

[Rladd]

Thoughts on this hop schedule:


IBU (tinseth): 57.45

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 12.81
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.39
1 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.39
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 17.6
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 0 min
2 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
2 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

NOTES:
Add half during peak primary fermentation (about 4 or 5 days in) for 4 days. Rack to secondary with the rest of the hops for an additional 4 days.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Thoughts on this hop schedule:


IBU (tinseth): 57.45

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 12.81
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.39
1 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 12.39
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 17.6
1 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
1 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 0 min
2 oz - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
2 oz - Citra, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

NOTES:
Add half during peak primary fermentation (about 4 or 5 days in) for 4 days. Rack to secondary with the rest of the hops for an additional 4 days.

If you want to stick with the current thinking/trends for NEIPA, your first dry hop charge should be moved up. At 4-5 days post-pitch, you should be well past peak fermentation activity. For best biotransformative dry hop, look at day 2-3 post-pitch (depending how long your lag time is).
Also, most folks are not racking to a secondary for NEIPAs (secondary fermentation has generally fallen out of vogue these days unless racking onto fruit or some other additive). The rationale is that the desired strong fresh hops flavor and aroma of NEIPAs is volatile and does not last long (a few weeks at best for peak flavor), and the additional oxygen exposure from racking accelerates the loss of that fresh hops flavor, as oxidation of hops components is thought to be the major culprit in the short peak flavor profile of these beers.

Other than that, unless you are going to pull the 10 minute boil hops out during chilling (if using hops bags), those additions will give you a lot more bitterness than you are probably looking for in a typical NEIPA profile. The 15 minute addition should give you all the bitterness you need.
I know that traditional wisdom says you don't get much bittering with 10 minute additions, but we are also talking about a large dose of very high AA hops, especially if you plan to leave them in during the chill. By all means try it, but I suspect you will end up with bitterness approaching west coast IPA levels. I encountered the same thing on my last NEIPA, where a huge flameout addition (no boil at all) gave me more bitterness than I wanted.

That's just my two cents. See what others say.

 

[hezagenius]

There was some article that came out recently that did some research about bitterness from different whirlpool techniques. They made several batches and added hops at different times and then had the IBUs tested. What I took away from it was that you are getting some level of bitterness during a whirlpool and that you could ballpark the IBUs by assuming 4-5% utilization. Also, if you whirlpool too long, you might be giving up some of the aroma from whirlpooling. It seems like there are a lot of takeaways from this article for brewing NEIPAs.


https://www.homebrewersassociation....-boilwhirlpool-hop-additions-bitterness-beer/

 

[Rladd]

If you want to stick with the current thinking/trends for NEIPA, your first dry hop charge should be moved up. At 4-5 days post-pitch, you should be well past peak fermentation activity. For best biotransformative dry hop, look at day 2-3 post-pitch (depending how long your lag time is).
Also, most folks are not racking to a secondary for NEIPAs (secondary fermentation has generally fallen out of vogue these days unless racking onto fruit or some other additive). The rationale is that the desired strong fresh hops flavor and aroma of NEIPAs is volatile and does not last long (a few weeks at best for peak flavor), and the additional oxygen exposure from racking accelerates the loss of that fresh hops flavor, as oxidation of hops components is thought to be the major culprit in the short peak flavor profile of these beers.

Other than that, unless you are going to pull the 10 minute boil hops out during chilling (if using hops bags), those additions will give you a lot more bitterness than you are probably looking for in a typical NEIPA profile. The 15 minute addition should give you all the bitterness you need.
I know that traditional wisdom says you don't get much bittering with 10 minute additions, but we are also talking about a large dose of very high AA hops, especially if you plan to leave them in during the chill. By all means try it, but I suspect you will end up with bitterness approaching west coast IPA levels. I encountered the same thing on my last NEIPA, where a huge flameout addition (no boil at all) gave me more bitterness than I wanted.

That's just my two cents. See what others say.

I really appreciate the input! I will definitely be pulling the 10 min additions and I'm thinking of getting the bitterness from the 15min addition. Also, upping my dry hop amount and doing it around 2-3 days with no secondary.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I really appreciate the input! I will definitely be pulling the 10 min additions and I'm thinking of getting the bitterness from the 15min addition. Also, upping my dry hop amount and doing it around 2-3 days with no secondary.

Keep us posted on the progress. I would really like to hear your impressions of the outcome.

 

[Rladd]

Keep us posted on the progress. I would really like to hear your impressions of the outcome.

I will! I will be brewing on the 9th. I will post on the progress.

 

[byron]

Rladd, did you brew it? Please can you give us an update. Very interested. thanks mate.

 

[Rladd]

I did brew it and it came out amazing! Great malt backbone with a strong hop aroma and very little bitterness to it. A great summer beer! Cheers��

 

[Rladd]

The first pour

 

[byron]

Fantastic! That thing looks delicious! Did you change anything drastically from your original recipe? I'm doing one tomorrow.

 

[Rladd]

Nope, the recipe I posted is the one I used. Happy Brewing!