Help with Johnson Temp Controller

[richlong8020]

Hey all I need some help with my JTC and fridge. I just made a Cherry Vanilla Porter on 8-29 (I can post the recipe if needed.) the minimum recommended temp on the yeast is 68 deg and I have my fridge set at 70 deg with a 2 deg fluctuation.

It's the first time I've ever had temp control. So as I peak in over the last few days, I see no airlock activity.

Should I be worried?
Does it take longer to fire up when temp controlled?

I'll post the recipe:

9# dark DME
1# crystal 40
1# special B
4 oz Choc malt

2 oz Liberty at 15 min left

WLP 001 Cali Ale

4 oz vanilla last week primary
Cherry extract at bottling

UNFORTUNATLY I forgot the 1/2 tsp of yeast nutrient.

OG 1085
FG estimated 1020
ABV estimated 8.5

Any words or knowledge will only help.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[grathan]

Cooler would take longer (not days longer). 70* isn't really all that cool either though, unless your comparing it to 80. You might just have a leak around the bucket seal so nothing is going through the airlock.

 

[madscientist451]

I would suspect the yeast before the temp control. 70 degrees should be fine for that yeast if it was healthy. Did you make a starter? Did you aerate the wort? Was it a re-pitch? What is the expiration date on the yeast?
What was your pitching temperature?
Check your bucket seal and/or airlock, and if you don't get any sign of fermentation, I'd throw in some Lallamand Nottingham dry yeast. I've used it in Porters before and they came out good. Follow the re-hydrating instructions on the label.

 

[Braufessor]

*cooler temps do slow fermentation as opposed to warmer temps. It is not dramatically slower, though - and that slower build up is good. That is the problem with temps in the upper 70's or 80's - to vigorous of a ferment and off flavors. As mentioned, 70 is not particularly "cool" though.

*1.085 beer...... did you use a single vial of yeast? If so, that is not enough yeast to pitch. Especially if it was at all old. A beer that big needs a starter or multiple vials. (or use dry US05 which is same yeast in larger quantity). Low pitch rate would result in a slower start.

*Vessel leaking air? Buckets are notorious for lack of airlock activity due to leaky seals. No big deal..... just can be a bit unsettling if you are wondering what is happening and cannot see the clues you want. I use buckets a lot - 50% of the time, no airlock activity. I can usually "smell" the fermentation though if it is in my fermentation chamber.

 

[richlong8020]

I would suspect the yeast before the temp control. 70 degrees should be fine for that yeast if it was healthy. Did you make a starter? Did you aerate the wort? Was it a re-pitch? What is the expiration date on the yeast?
What was your pitching temperature?
Check your bucket seal and/or airlock, and if you don't get any sign of fermentation, I'd throw in some Lallamand Nottingham dry yeast. I've used it in Porters before and they came out good. Follow the re-hydrating instructions on the label.

Ok so I didn't make a starter.

I use a strainer so the wort is clean and very aerated.

It's not a repitch.

Don't know the date on the vial

Pitching temp was 75*

The buckets are fairly new so I doubt the seal is bad but that is a possibility. Since I already have WLP 001 in there, is there a risk if I add a different yeast. Should I just switch to dry yeast and be done with the White Labs.



~RDWHAHB~

 

[richlong8020]

.

 

[MrHopScotch]

The bucket seals often leak no matter how new they are. I just used a brand new bucket for a fermentation and never saw a single bubble through the airlock but had a perfectly fine fermentation.

 

[Braufessor]

You could peak in and see what is happening. It may already be underway. If you feel you want to pitch some dry - and you want to stay with what you have, US05 is the same yeast. Using 2 different yeasts is not necessarily bad either.

There is nothing wrong with Whitelabs, and there is nothing wrong with the yeast you pitched. You just did not pitch enough of it for the size of the beer you were brewing. Learning how to make a yeast starter is something you will want to do, as it can make a big difference in your fermentation - especially with big beers and lagers.

 

[richlong8020]

*cooler temps do slow fermentation as opposed to warmer temps. It is not dramatically slower, though - and that slower build up is good. That is the problem with temps in the upper 70's or 80's - to vigorous of a ferment and off flavors. As mentioned, 70 is not particularly "cool" though.

*1.085 beer...... did you use a single vial of yeast? If so, that is not enough yeast to pitch. Especially if it was at all old. A beer that big needs a starter or multiple vials. (or use dry US05 which is same yeast in larger quantity). Low pitch rate would result in a slower start.

*Vessel leaking air? Buckets are notorious for lack of airlock activity due to leaky seals. No big deal..... just can be a bit unsettling if you are wondering what is happening and cannot see the clues you want. I use buckets a lot - 50% of the time, no airlock activity. I can usually "smell" the fermentation though if it is in my fermentation chamber.

Maybe that's part of my problem. I'm not used to having cooler temps. I have always been at the mercy of the ambient temps of wherever the bucket ends up.

If I made the beer on fri, should I get another vial tuesday and add it to the bucket. Maybe I should switch to dry yeast because they have more yeast cells.

I'll have to inspect my buckets. Those lids can be hard to take off and in the process I might be warping the lids.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[Backslide]

hmm, You pitched hot at 75deg. I would NEVER pitch this yeast at that temp. Honestly I pitch low, think 63deg. I also keep my fridge set at 63-64 since ferment temps will be higher than ambient.

You should consider making starters to asses yeast health, or use Wyeast 1056 smack packs.

 

[richlong8020]

The bucket seals often leak no matter how new they are. I just used a brand new bucket for a fermentation and never saw a single bubble through the airlock but had a perfectly fine fermentation.

Well that's good news to hear. I like the buckets but I like seeing the bubbles more.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[Braufessor]

Taking bucket lid off...... Push in on the middle of the lid while prying at the edge. Generally, I set the bucket on the floor, put my knee right on the middle of the lid, press down gently as I lift up the edge.... comes off pretty easy that way. They are a PITA if you are just pulling at the edge.

IF you add anything to the bucket, I would add dry yeast at this point - more cells, faster start, cheaper.

Look in the bucket before you do anything. Make sure it is not fine before you go adding stuff to it.

In the future - if you are brewing 1.040 and under, a pack/vial of liquid is fine. If you are brewing 1.040-1.055, a pack or vial is borderline and a starter would probably be better. If you are brewing over 1.055 you really either need to:
A.) Use multiple vials/packs
B.) Make a starter
C.) Use Dry yeast

 

[Backslide]

Another thought, do a gravity check to see where you're at. I had a buddy pitch hot with 001 and had the same issue you did. Come to find out that the yeast did it's work in less than 24hrs and he had hit FG.

 

[richlong8020]

You could peak in and see what is happening. It may already be underway. If you feel you want to pitch some dry - and you want to stay with what you have, US05 is the same yeast. Using 2 different yeasts is not necessarily bad either.

There is nothing wrong with Whitelabs, and there is nothing wrong with the yeast you pitched. You just did not pitch enough of it for the size of the beer you were brewing. Learning how to make a yeast starter is something you will want to do, as it can make a big difference in your fermentation - especially with big beers and lagers.

Well that's good to hear too. I like White Labs because it's easy. But they did come out and say that their yeast requires a starter too. Should I get another vial and add it tmrw.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[richlong8020]

Another thought, do a gravity check to see where you're at. I had a buddy pitch hot with 001 and had the same issue you did. Come to find out that the yeast did it's work in less than 24hrs and he had hit FG.

Honestly I think it may have been 70* because we were shocked when it got down that low. I live in SoCal and the water temps here are pretty hot. I'll try to keep cooling to get lower than 70*.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[richlong8020]

Taking bucket lid off...... Push in on the middle of the lid while prying at the edge. Generally, I set the bucket on the floor, put my knee right on the middle of the lid, press down gently as I lift up the edge.... comes off pretty easy that way. They are a PITA if you are just pulling at the edge.

IF you add anything to the bucket, I would add dry yeast at this point - more cells, faster start, cheaper.

Look in the bucket before you do anything. Make sure it is not fine before you go adding stuff to it.

In the future - if you are brewing 1.040 and under, a pack/vial of liquid is fine. If you are brewing 1.040-1.055, a pack or vial is borderline and a starter would probably be better. If you are brewing over 1.055 you really either need to:
A.) Use multiple vials/packs
B.) Make a starter
C.) Use Dry yeast

Good tips and tricks. I will implement all of this on my next batch. I don't think I'll add more yeast. Maybe I'll let it go 3 weeks and test to see if I hit my mark. I really want to continue using the fridge, just was worried when I didn't see anything. Not sure how to make starters. But I will definitly start looking into makin them.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[Braufessor]

Couple good starting points on making yeast starters. You don't necessarily need a flask and stir plate - can use a gallon glass jug and foil for lid. Boil up small amt. of wort in a pan on your stove, let it cool. Add to jug, add yeast, swirl it regularly for oxygen. Make sure you sanitize everything very well, including foil, funnel, yeast package, etc.
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew/starter-tips
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEQBPeHfXD0[/ame]

 

[richlong8020]

Wow thx so much for that. I will watch it soon. Now I just need another brew day .


~RDWHAHB~

 

[cjgenever]

Stop looking at your airlock. What is your sg? Consistent sg for three days min means it's (most likely) done. Airlocks are too keep bugs out.

Johnson controllers can destroy a compressor by cycling them to quickly. Make sure your cycle time is long enough to prevent damage. The 2° differential should do this, but wanted to warn you

 

[madscientist451]

Doing nothing for 3 weeks isn't the best option. I agree that you should take a gravity reading and see what your progress is. I wouldn't add more liquid yeast unless you were going to use multiple vials. The vials will be cold from the store, let them warm up to your
70 degree wort temp. But I still think your best bet is some re-hydrated dry yeast.
Take the bucket lid off, use a big sanitized spoon to aerate the wort, or use Oxygen if you have it, pitch the yeast and it should take right off. You should see some action in the airlock in 12 hrs or less.

 

[richlong8020]

Ok I'll give it a shot. Unfortunately it won't be until tmrw night. That's the earliest I can get a packet.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[richlong8020]

Actually would it be harmful to wait until thurs night.

I guess I'm asking to see if it's safe for the brew if I waited a week to add more yeast.

Since I brewed last fri it would be almost a week.

Get a US05, rehydrate, and toss it in right?!? Is that all I should do.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[cjgenever]

Sooner the better, but if you underpitched any damage done is probably done by now. I would toss in some hydrated us-05 as soon as I can with a bit of nutrient.

Fwiw cal ale ferments well at mid sixties. I start at about 62 to 64 and finish the ferment at 70. Beer temp of course, not fridge temp.

 

[richlong8020]

Gonna keep that In mind for future beers. Is there a site I can look at to learn more about the ferm temps and what they are really supposed to be at.

Gonna try to get a US05 tmrw. Hope to have it in the bucket by the end of the day. Really hope it helps. This is all part of the learning process.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[cjgenever]

I'd suggest searching these forums for yeast specifics. Search the site from Google. The site search function isn't quite as effective.

Each strain has preferred temps and will give various flavors at different temps, pitching rates, gravities, etc.

Don't be afraid to ask questions either. We love hashing out ferm/yeast specifics around here

 

[richlong8020]

Ok guys thx for all the help on this thread. Last night I added a packet of us05 to the wort, tossed in a lil yeast nutrient, and stirred the hell out if it to get oxygen mixed in there again. I also adjusted the ambient air temp to reflect a 65* ferm.

I decided to leave it in for another week or two but take measurements when it gets closer.

Thx for the bucket lid tip. It popped off with ease when I added the yeast. I will post with tasting notes in a few weeks. If there is any added info that you all feel would help, please tell me. Thx again.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[grathan]

It hadn't fermented at all? That would be truly odd.

 

[richlong8020]

It hadn't fermented at all? That would be truly odd.

It did but I under pitched so this was hopefully a save.


~RDWHAHB~

 

[grathan]

AHh, you'll be fine.

I don't know if you've read this before, but the temperature inside the fermenter can actually be a few degrees warmer than the freezer temperature. I've had good luck at 68* though, but sometimes putting it at 66* really gets you to 68*. It's a tricky game though because once the ferementation slows the temps will drop a couple degrees, but that is a bad time for the wort to get cooler because it would make the yeast drop out sooner. Which is the reason I use a thermowell, but even still you could simply raise the temperature a couple degrees on the second or third day of fermentation.


Also if you leave the temp probe exposed to the air in the freezer, it can cause your compressor to cycle too many times and burn it out quicker.


Good luck.

 

[richlong8020]

Ya after I re-pitched I'm keeping the ambient temp mid 60s. I think that it's pretty stable now.


~RDWHAHB~