Help me make a good hoppy beer

[Coastarine]

My hoppy beers have never been up to snuff the way my other beers have. My malty beers and belgian beers have always been much better. Back in Pittsburgh I made a double IPA that turned out pretty good, but my last attempt at an APA (northern brewer's extra pale ale) is only so-so. Maybe I mucked with the recipe too much (in my infinite wisdom I switched up the hop schedule entirely so that instead of 1oz cascade at 60, 30, and 5, I did 1oz FWH, 1oz 15, and 1oz dry)

Right now I'm drinking a Bell's Two Hearted and honestly to me it is the best IPA ever made. I love this stuff.

First of all, I've now gotten my fermentation temperatures down from 70-72 to 66-68 where I'd really like them. The only other thing I can think of is water. I currently mix in 1 tbs of 5/2 stabilizer with the strike water just before dough in. My water report gives no useful info to brewing that I can see. Should I do something different from the 5/2 for an IPA? What say you?

 

[Danek]

You could try adding Burton crystals. They bring out a kind of crispness in hoppy beers, though I believe they're only really useful if your water is soft.

 

[Yooper]

The first thing that came to my mind was "water". In my case, my water is hard, but I know nothing else. The water department told me, "You don't need a water report- it's safe to drink little lady! But it is very hard.". Um, yeah, thanks. I'm going to order my own testing, but until then............

Anyway, because my water is hard, I believe my IPAs and APAs are kick ass. My blondes and Belgians, not so much. They tend to be more astringent than I want.

I'm just wondering if your current water is softer than your previous supply. If that's the case, the 5.2 stabilizer won't harden it.

 

[Coastarine]

I'll send a sample to ward labs today. I thought it was more expensive and I move a lot, but really it isn't much money and it would be really nice to know.

 

[TeleTwanger]

If you subbed 60 minute hops for FWH you are going to get almost no bittering. FWHs are equivilent to 20 minute hops as far as bittering they're used mostly for flavor/aroma.

 

[Danek]

If you subbed 60 minute hops for FWH you are going to get almost no bittering. FWHs are equivilent to 20 minute hops as far as bittering they're used mostly for flavor/aroma.

AFAIK, FWH gives slightly more IBUs than a 60-minute addition, according to BeerSmith, but it's perceived as being a less harsh bitterness. I guess it depends what you're after - I tend to FWH most of my brews, but I've never quite managed to recreate the kick-your-f'kin-teeth-in bitterness of the IPAs I really like. So for my next batch of IPA I'm going with a much larger than standard 60-minute addition to see if that helps.

 

[Coastarine]

If you subbed 60 minute hops for FWH you are going to get almost no bittering. FWHs are equivilent to 20 minute hops as far as bittering they're used mostly for flavor/aroma.

I did some reading on FWH before I did that and the results seemed to be described as "a more complex bitterness" or just flavors that married better. It seemed to me that since the hops were still in for the 60 minutes, the alpha acids were still isomerized but the magic of FWH was that the flavor and aroma somehow aren't boiled away. Either way it is something I haven't even begun to master/understand so I probably won't tinker with it again for a while. The reading I did also indicated that it was intended for and originally used in pilsners.

So here's my plan: Get my water analyzed, figure out what if any water treatment I need, find a good two-hearted clone recipe, actually follow the recipe, and ferment it at 66-68. Ready? Break.

 

[TeleTwanger]

I would just use more hops. I've never over hopped an extract batch like one can with all grain. When I would do extracts I would rate my 60 minute hops at 20% or lower. So for that rating 1 oz 60, 1 oz 30, 1 oz 15 for cascades @7%aa youd be at around 31ibus. I like my APAs over 35ibus and ipas around 50-60.

 

[wildwest450]

Do yourself a favor and brew this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bee-cave-brewery-ipa-59907/ don't change anything it will be great. I have got nothing but rave reviews from everyone who has tried this beer. Ed Wort rules.

 

[Coastarine]

I would just use more hops. I've never over hopped an extract batch like one can with all grain. When I would do extracts I would rate my 60 minute hops at 20% or lower. So for that rating 1 oz 60, 1 oz 30, 1 oz 15 for cascades @7%aa youd be at around 31ibus. I like my APAs over 35ibus and ipas around 50-60.

Wait I'm confused...how did we get talking about extract? This was an AG extra pale ale. My cascades were only 6.3%, but with that hop schedule and set to tinseth, my beersmith gives 56 IBU.

 

[Coastarine]

Do yourself a favor and brew this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bee-cave-brewery-ipa-59907/ don't change anything it will be great. I have got nothing but rave reviews from everyone who has tried this beer. Ed Wort rules.

Fair enough. There's my recipe. It's always nice to know your source.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Excessively high bicarobonates are not good for hoppy beers. If your water report is not of any use I would recommend getting a water analysis done, or switch to bottled water + salts for brewing hoppy beers until you know for sure.

Our municipal water source recently changed, so I'm about to send a sample off to Ward this week myself.

 

[Coastarine]

I sent off the sample. Now I just wait!

 

[niquejim]

My hoppy beers have never been up to snuff the way my other beers have. My malty beers and belgian beers have always been much better. Back in Pittsburgh I made a double IPA that turned out pretty good, but my last attempt at an APA (northern brewer's extra pale ale) is only so-so. Maybe I mucked with the recipe too much (in my infinite wisdom I switched up the hop schedule entirely so that instead of 1oz cascade at 60, 30, and 5, I did 1oz FWH, 1oz 15, and 1oz dry)

Right now I'm drinking a Bell's Two Hearted and honestly to me it is the best IPA ever made. I love this stuff.

So is it not bitter enough, not hoppy enough, or both?

The answer may be different depending on your answer.
If not bitter enough get some higher AA hops, and if not enough flavor try something like my https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/fat-owl-pale-ale-55221/

 

[Coastarine]

So is it not bitter enough, not hoppy enough, or both?

The answer may be different depending on your answer.
If not bitter enough get some higher AA hops, and if not enough flavor try my https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/fat-owl-pale-ale-55221/

I'm not sure. I'm just going to make sure my water is right and do a tried and true recipe (bee cave IPA) by the numbers and I'll get back to you.

 

[Brew-boy]

Do yourself a favor and brew this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bee-cave-brewery-ipa-59907/ don't change anything it will be great. I have got nothing but rave reviews from everyone who has tried this beer. Ed Wort rules.

To me this beer does not have enough hops, I would go even bigger if you really like hoppy beers. My last brew had this hop bill and I still want to make it bigger:
1 oz Galena (13.1%) - added during boil, boiled 75.0 min
1 oz Columbus (14.80%) - added during boil, boiled 15.0 min
1 oz Columbus (13.50%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
1 oz Columbus (12.2%) - added during boil, boiled 1.0 min
1 oz Columbus (12.2%) - added dry to secondary fermenter

 

[eddie]

I've never made this one myself but it's on my to-do list. From what I've read, it's a crowd-pleaser though.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/lake-walk-pale-ale-32939/

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

As someone else mentioned, I think the issue is with the FWH and no 60 minute addition of hops.

Here's a good summary and I'm sure there is more info on the forum for FWH.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/first-wort-hopping-white-paper-sort-50941/

The way I have interpreted FWH is that you leave your 60 min addition where it is. You take the bulk of your late additions (i.e. 15 min, 5 min, etc.) and use those as FWH. The bitterness (IBUs) that the FWH hops impart is equivalent to a 20 minute addition. That alone won't be near enough bitterness.

From that article and some other posts, although the FWH increases the IBUs in addition to the 60 min addition, the perceived bitterness is smoother.

I am going to go out in my garage and force carb my Amarillo APA, my first FWH attempt. I kept the 60 min addition on this one though so I'm interested to see how the bitterness comes across.

 

[Trencher]

If you're looking for a big hop flavor and aroma, try going with all late addition hops. Some time back I brewed an all-Simcoe American Amber with 1 oz. pellets at 20, 10 and flameout. Beersmith tells me I got 46 IBU, and my tongue tells me the hop flavor is HUGE but the bitterness is subtle and not harsh at all. I think this is becoming my new favorite homebrew recipe.

 

[Coastarine]

If you're looking for a big hop flavor and aroma, try going with all late addition hops. Some time back I brewed an all-Simcoe American Amber with 1 oz. pellets at 20, 10 and flameout. Beersmith tells me I got 46 IBU, and my tongue tells me the hop flavor is HUGE but the bitterness is subtle and not harsh at all. I think this is becoming my new favorite homebrew recipe.

I don't think that's the answer. I'm looking for a more traditional, tried and true method over the shorten-your-calf-muscles-by-two-inches-to-theoretically-increase-your-jumping-ability experimental new method. If it made a good beer for you, I'm glad, but that's not what I'm comfortable doing yet.

 

[wildwest450]

To me this beer does not have enough hops, I would go even bigger if you really like hoppy beers. My last brew had this hop bill and I still want to make it bigger:

Have you ever tried the recipe?? Not every recipe needs to be mega ibu's.

 

[mew]

I don't think that's the answer. I'm looking for a more traditional, tried and true method over the shorten-your-calf-muscles-by-two-inches-to-theoretically-increase-your-jumping-ability experimental new method. If it made a good beer for you, I'm glad, but that's not what I'm comfortable doing yet.

Why not? this method is tried and true. I've done it and it came out great. Jamil says it's the secret to big hop flavor and aroma.

Also, go to this website: http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=video

and look for these episodes:

October 10, 2007 - 15-minute Amarillo Ale and June 20, 2006 - Playing with Hops

Here's a link to a thread containing my last recipe in which I used 4 ozs of hops within the last 20 minutes of the boil. Came out great!

 

[heinz57]

According to Jamil, the real secret to making a good IPA is drying out the beer. The show is about IIPA's but I see merit in considering this tactic in IPA's as well.

If you can get the beer to finish really low it will accentuate the hop profile much better than upping the hops & malt. Adding a little corn sugar really helps dry out the beer nicely, but only in small proportions, say, ~2-3% of the fermentables.

Give it a download, I love listening to his episodes. The hop schedule is pretty ridiculous, but it's a clone of a mighty fine IPA.

 

[Saccharomyces]

If you're looking for a big hop flavor and aroma, try going with all late addition hops. Some time back I brewed an all-Simcoe American Amber with 1 oz. pellets at 20, 10 and flameout. Beersmith tells me I got 46 IBU, and my tongue tells me the hop flavor is HUGE but the bitterness is subtle and not harsh at all. I think this is becoming my new favorite homebrew recipe.

I LOVE late hop IPA... I am planning to do this myself with my hop monster.

One of the guys in the local club did a 20 minute IPA with 9oz of hops, it totally rocked and won several medals.

 

[TeleTwanger]

I'd like to try late hop additions only too. I think it will work, Stone does it and they know hoppy beer.

 

[korndog]

I don't think that's the answer. I'm looking for a more traditional, tried and true method over the shorten-your-calf-muscles-by-two-inches-to-theoretically-increase-your-jumping-ability experimental new method. If it made a good beer for you, I'm glad, but that's not what I'm comfortable doing yet.

OH, it's tried and true alright. Expensive, luxurious, delicious and widely accepted as a valid method; hardly remedial. Maybe not for everybody though.

 

[bump8628]

I'm not sure if your still looking for a Two Hearted clone but here is one that I found Bells Two Hearted IPA Recipe ::: Brew365 - Homebrewing Recipes and Articles I haven't made it and we don't get Bell's beers in Oklahoma but it looks like a decent IPA recipe. I have had the best luck getting big hop aromas in my IPAs by using 1.5-2 oz of hops per 5 gallons right at flameout and then cooling the wort down as quickly as possible. I've completely quit using 5 minute additions for aroma because in my experience even with only 5 minutes of boiling I lose a lot of the aroma.

 

[niquejim]

Have you ever tried the recipe?? Not every recipe needs to be mega ibu's.

Exactly, that is why I asked if it was bitterness or flavor that was lacking and offered my https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/fat-owl-pale-ale-55221/#post887467 which is my slightly smaller and darker version of a commercial beer

 

[Coastarine]

I'm making the bee cave IPA. I buy from Northern Brewer and they, like most people, don't have Warrior hops (14-16%AA). I'm substituting the same HBU's (probably ~2oz) in Amarillo (6-9%AA) as Ed suggests.

 

[Coastarine]

Water analysis is in!

pH:...............................7.1
sodium:.......................<1 ppm
potassium:...................<1 ppm
Calcium:........................13 ppm
Magnesium:..................<1 ppm
Total Hardness (CaCO3):..37 ppm
Nitrate:.........................0.1 ppm
Sulfate:.......................<1 ppm
Chloride:........................3 ppm
Carbonate (CO3):..........<1 ppm
Bicarbonate (HCO3):........12 ppm
Alkalinity (CaCO3):..........10 ppm

Comparing my numbers to this http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html looks like my water could use some help.