OP
OP
I just upped the victory to 4.5 pounds. Which kept the gravity the same.
Help me come up with my 50th Birthday (or my Memorial) 5 year aged Barleywine recipe.
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OP
OP
So any predictions on the ibu perception in 5 years? Will it be drinkable or still a pucker?
OP
OP
Carp, I may not be able to lay my hands on the Cara Brown.....
OP
OP
No, Just Cap n cork...and I sent an message to Todd at my shop in PH...He did get it when it was released, I don't know if he has any more.
If not I need to rethink it and find a solution.
SAMPLER
Well-Known Member
Hate to interrupt but I have to ask....
Why 2 different types of Yeast? Is the plan to use one to start the the other to make the final push to final gravity? If someone could explain that would be great.
PS. I'm lovin this recipe.
Why 2 different types of Yeast? Is the plan to use one to start the the other to make the final push to final gravity? If someone could explain that would be great.
PS. I'm lovin this recipe.
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Revvy,
I personally think that's too much victory. I think ~2.5 lbs would be appropriate to get the "breadiness" you're looking for. Maybe add ~2 lbs of Munich to get a little more malt?
OP
OP
I said it up here...
From this article.
http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-sty...beer-styles/172-barleywine-style-of-the-month
There some discussions of blended yeasts strains for barleywines in the northern brewer forum as well.
I doubt the hops will be the focus at all. You may get a note of bitterness, but IMO this will still be a malt-forward brew.
I also think that is too much victory (although the name of the malt is pretty ironic if you make it to 50). Something like 2lbs would be my max tolerance for it. Although, if you really like a bready taste, then your current recipe would work fine.
I also think you should probably add some sugar in here to thin this thing out, or else you may have a hell of a time getting the FG down...
OP
OP
Good news!! I got three pounds of the Cara Brown, so all is not lost.
Part of the reason for using Victory IS for the name...plus I've used it in my brown ale. Though I may take everyone's suggestions and cut it back.
Don't you think the pound and a half of that special honey is enough of a simple sugar to help bring it down?
A few things here...
I don't like beers that remind me of maple syrup. DFH 120min is a good example of that. For this reason, I really try to dry the crap out of big beers which means a higher dose of the simple sugars.
Secondly, when working with the big boys, I really like staggered sugar additions to help fermentation along. The yeast seem to really like the simple sugars once that ABV starts getting into the 9-10% range and almost seem to need them as an appetizer to their maltose meal. I like to do staggered additions, I would probably do 3 or 4 in your recipes case.
I am by no means a big beer expert, but in my limited experience it has really seemed to help. EDIT: You may be able to pull off a similar effect by using jars of less concentrated wort. I know some guy on BYO did that in a 21% All Grain (No Sugar) Brew.
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That's what I thought when I put 2 lbs in a 5 gallon batch of pale ale....
But, it may work in something as big as this.
OP
OP
Well I had a very interesting and educational night with MustangJ and his brew buddy and beer judge Bill which gave me some unique insight and tips for brewing this monster. Especially a complex "yeast regimen" which should get the beer low AND get those complexities from the belgian yeast. Turns out playing with beersmith this is not too uncommon. I'll explain in a bit.
First. They tend to think that after 5 years that Breadiness, like the hoppiness will mellow out, so keeping it at that level is not an issue...though I'm thinking I might want some raisiny notes in it, so I might play with some special b, and reduce the victory, but I'm not sure.
Sugar is a must (as is yeast nutrient, energizer, and plenty of oxygen including the second blast in the first 12 hours after fermentation has begun.
Decocting a gallon or so isn't a bad idea during the mash. It will add some more depth.
Now to the very interesting yeasting schedule. (This is cool, and really a new concept for me, but it make sense.)
They recommend pitching a huge starter using two vials of the cali ale yeast, and as big of a starter as I can grow in the next few days.
Also on brew day reserve a half gallon of my wort til later.
Then a week into fermentation or after the krausen falls pitch another starter of the cali ale yeast. (1 0r wo tubes) This will help bring the beer down further.
THEN after about 2 weeks of this, when fermentation appears stalled to rack it to secondary and using that half gallon of reserved wort, make another starter this time with 2 vials of the trappist ale yeast. At this point I could actually let the temps drift up a little too. This will get me some of the esters and spiciness from the trappist yeast, and also hopefully get the last of the fermentable sugars.
They think I can get this puppy down even further than Beersmith says it will be.
There is a button on beersmith to indicate adding more yeast in secondary, which I never noticed before.
I'll probably want to rack it to a tertiary to get it off the final yeast to allow it to bulk age before I bottle it.
Pretty wild, eh?
First. They tend to think that after 5 years that Breadiness, like the hoppiness will mellow out, so keeping it at that level is not an issue...though I'm thinking I might want some raisiny notes in it, so I might play with some special b, and reduce the victory, but I'm not sure.
Sugar is a must (as is yeast nutrient, energizer, and plenty of oxygen including the second blast in the first 12 hours after fermentation has begun.
Decocting a gallon or so isn't a bad idea during the mash. It will add some more depth.
Now to the very interesting yeasting schedule. (This is cool, and really a new concept for me, but it make sense.)
They recommend pitching a huge starter using two vials of the cali ale yeast, and as big of a starter as I can grow in the next few days.
Also on brew day reserve a half gallon of my wort til later.
Then a week into fermentation or after the krausen falls pitch another starter of the cali ale yeast. (1 0r wo tubes) This will help bring the beer down further.
THEN after about 2 weeks of this, when fermentation appears stalled to rack it to secondary and using that half gallon of reserved wort, make another starter this time with 2 vials of the trappist ale yeast. At this point I could actually let the temps drift up a little too. This will get me some of the esters and spiciness from the trappist yeast, and also hopefully get the last of the fermentable sugars.
They think I can get this puppy down even further than Beersmith says it will be.
There is a button on beersmith to indicate adding more yeast in secondary, which I never noticed before.
I'll probably want to rack it to a tertiary to get it off the final yeast to allow it to bulk age before I bottle it.
Pretty wild, eh?
This is a great idea and thread. I am inspired to try making a barleywine some day too. Thanks for all of the information, Revvy.
For one, I think that the strategy you have laid out sounds clean and will definitely do the job and that the extra work you are putting in will pay dividends in the final beer.
Secondly, will that yeast starter schedule really help? I feel like it is similar to a stuck ferment...where you pitch a yeast starter and it does nothing, but then you dump it on a yeast cake and it goes down several more points. I just dont think the starters would have enough cells to actually do anything.
Also, I thought pitching more than one yeast was a recipe to have one completely dominate the other and only one of their flavors would end up in the final beer. I have never tried this myself, but have read that around here.
Secondly, will that yeast starter schedule really help? I feel like it is similar to a stuck ferment...where you pitch a yeast starter and it does nothing, but then you dump it on a yeast cake and it goes down several more points. I just dont think the starters would have enough cells to actually do anything.
Also, I thought pitching more than one yeast was a recipe to have one completely dominate the other and only one of their flavors would end up in the final beer. I have never tried this myself, but have read that around here.
OP
OP
That's the point of not doing the two yeasts at the same time, it shouldn't cause one to dominate the other. Or in a sense the clean, cali ale yeast will do the job of fermenting the majority of the beer and the trappist later, will produce some esters and other complexities with any remaining sugars left over.
Seems like if the Cali yeast still has sugars around, they will still be around to beat up any belgians who enter their turf. You know those Californians...
OP
OP
LOL.... Yeah, we'll see.
Though I have to say Hercule Poirot could swing a might cane on someone's toe.
LOL.... Yeah, we'll see.
Though I have to say Hercule Poirot could swing a might cane on someone's toe.
That IS spicy!
Oh, I also think Special B is a good idea. Perhaps it will give the Belgians the upper hand feeling more like home. Oh, and for the added complexity too.
OP
OP
Think I should simply split the victory in half and go with 2.25 # of each then?
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Yes it is, yes it is
This thread has me thinking Imperial....I'm not a fan of barleywines, so I probably should start tinkering with an IIIIIIPA
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OP
Yes it is, yes it is
This thread has me thinking Imperial....I'm not a fan of barleywines, so I probably should start tinkering with an IIIIIIPA
Awesome!!!!!!
Yes it is, yes it is
This thread has me thinking Imperial....I'm not a fan of barleywines, so I probably should start tinkering with an IIIIIIPA
I made a concept recipe and I called the style 'BWIPA' pronounced Bweepah.
OP
OP
I made a concept recipe and I called the style 'BWIPA' pronounced Bweepah.
Big Weird IPA?
That would work for me, I wouldn't suggest any more specialty grains, so it would have to come from one of the two and the victory seems like the likely suspect.
2.25lb sounds so big for special B, but I guess nothing about this beer is small.
Well, Barleywine IPA, but your's works too.
Basically very similar to a Barleywine, but with less specialty grains and is dry hopped liberally AFTER the aging period is complete. I have the recipe around here somewhere...
OP
OP
Looks like this may be it...
I like it, although I would lose the rice hulls if you can. Not sure what you are mashing in, but I am thinking room is going to be at a premium.
Also, just a thought that crossed my mind as I read it, but what about instead of making a starter with the belgian yeast and adding it in, you actually blended instead. As in, you reserve more wort (maybe a gal or two) and actually ferment it separately and mix the two when ferments are complete.
The thinking would be a more successful spicy yeast flavor introduction. Plus, then you wouldn't have to worry about a really violent ferment since your containers would be oversized for the primary.
Also, just a thought that crossed my mind as I read it, but what about instead of making a starter with the belgian yeast and adding it in, you actually blended instead. As in, you reserve more wort (maybe a gal or two) and actually ferment it separately and mix the two when ferments are complete.
The thinking would be a more successful spicy yeast flavor introduction. Plus, then you wouldn't have to worry about a really violent ferment since your containers would be oversized for the primary.
