Help Me Build My First NEIPA (Hop Schedule, Specifically)

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Obese Chess

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Okay, my porter - my first-ever brew - is happily bubbling away in primary and I'm already thinking about my next one - some friends and I have been joking about different IPA names and I'd like to try to make one for the crew. I've got a copy of "Designing Great Beers" the IPA chapter of which has been hugely informative, but as it's a bit older there's nothing in there about NEIPAs. As a result I've been perusing recipes and putting something together that I think I'd like to try.

I promise I'll do the sensible thing and start making beginner-friendly SMaSH brews soon but I'm having too much fun making my own stuff right now.

So here's what I've got so far:

Yeast: Imperial A24 "Dry Hop" (A 50/50 blend of A20 Citrus and A04 Barbarian) fermented around 66 (temp range for Dry Hop is 64 - 74 per Imperial).

Grain Bill:
8lbs Maris Otter (I like the flavor and body of Maris Otter and it's only a tiny bit more expensive locally than 2-row)
2.5lbs Pilsner Malt (to balance out the Maris Otter, add head, and also because I see a lot of people using small amounts of this in NEIPAs)
1lb White Wheat (Same reasons)
1lb Flaked Oats for body, mouthfeel (I love beer with oats in it)
.5lb Honey Malt (just for fun)

Single infusion mash at 152, 75 minute boil.

Those parameters right now in Beersmith give me 1.071 OG, 6.1SRM, and 7.3% ABV - so this is a pretty Big beer.

So then there's the hops. I would like to use Cascade, Galaxy, and Amarillo hops. I have access to all of these in the form of pellets, loose leaf, and cryo hops at my LHBS.

I see a lot of stuff about getting the boil down to 160, then adding hops for 20 minutes before continuing to chill, then dry hopping in primary. That said, I am certainly not knowledgeable enough to know how much to add and when.

For water I'll be using braulosopher's simple RO water mods as displayed here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-146#post-8203827

As such, my questions are:
1. How does that grain bill look?
2. How would you schedule those hops - Amarillo, Galaxy, and Cascade - in a big NEIPA/DIPA?

Be gentle, this is my first "from-the-ground-up" recipe. :)
 
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Obese Chess

Obese Chess

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Okay so I've been playing around a little more looking at other recipes. I'm thinking:

.5oz Magnum at 60min

3oz Cascacde, 3oz Amarillo, 2oz Galaxy at 160 when chilling

Pitch at 66-68ish, ferment at same temp (A24's temp range is 64-74)

Dry hop w/ 3oz Cascacde, 3oz Amarillo, 2oz Galaxy after 2-3 Days

Slowly raise temp after Dry Hop

Do I cold crash?

Of course, the big problem is everyone is telling me not to bottle but to keg instead. So I guess that'll be its own adventure...
 

sicktght311

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I will recommend as others have.....wait until you can keg and have a proper method set up to avoid oxygen at all costs. Otherwise there’s a solid chance this might end up an overall waste of ingredients. Neipas are EXTREMELY sensitive to oxygen and Traditional homebrew bottling methods are most likely going to introduce some o2. Of course we all do what we want, and there is a chance of success, id just say do some more experimentation first with other styles, get some kegging gear together, research closed transfers, and then give it a shot
 

Maverick986

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I made a similar recipe (Galaxy and Amarillo) , all hops were added in whirlpool at 150,which I heald for 45min,then chilled to pitching temp. I did one dry hop around day 10. I bottled, and it came out great! However, after about a week the beer went downhill because of the oxidation. I'd suggest doing small batches if bottling, and drink asap once carbed.
 

ProblemChild

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First - run with the recipe. Looks like a good starting point. I would replace some M/O with more wheat (but that is me).

Second - Agree with above on the O2 issue.

I use corny kegs as bottling buckets. It seems to me that If I take it up to 10 PSI and release a few times, I have a good amount of co2 to protect the beer. Not perfect ,but better than nothing. I also use the "out" post to transfer the beer into the keg so the beer is introduced at the bottom. A key point is to introduce the priming sugar before the rudimentary purge. If I bottle from that, I force carb to a very low pressure - (about 5 psi) so when I bottle, there is foam coming off the beer and those bubbles popping and off gassing are co2. It is not a perfect technique, but it is easy and has proven very effective as I have had bottles last 4 months with no noticeable darkening or cardboard flavor.
 
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Obese Chess

Obese Chess

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Cool. I will wait until I have a kegging setup before giving this a shot, but I'm pretty pleased that the response to my first recipe isn't "you idiot. How could you call this beer. What are you doing." ;)
 

ProblemChild

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Cool. I will wait until I have a kegging setup before giving this a shot, but I'm pretty pleased that the response to my first recipe isn't "you idiot. How could you call this beer. What are you doing." ;)

yeast, barley, hops and malt are beer - regardless

Whether it meets any "style" is irrelevant as long as you like it

beer you like is good beer. Flawed or perfect makes no difference. If you like it, you done good.

Still, your recipe looks fine and don't wait until you get keg stuff to do it - have done it without keg and did OK. Only trick is to drink it in the first two months (not sure if that is actually necessary, but it is a good thing to do anyway :) )
 
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Obese Chess

Obese Chess

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So while we are all here - what is it about the NEIPAs that makes them so sensitive to oxidation that they can't be bottled? Is it the dry hopping? I'm thinking about making something a little bit simpler, like a SMaSH, but if dry hopped beers can't be bottled I will skip my potential dry hopping step.
 

Maverick986

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I have dry hopped some SMaSH brews and bottled with little impact on flavor. I think it's the amount of hops used in the NEIPAs. Check out the Hop and Brew school podcasts. I don't remember which episode it was covered in, but it might have been ep. 4, 5, or 10.
 
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