Help!! is it dead?

[Badgerballs]

I am puzzled! I used to make wine and beer 30 years ago like it went out of fashion and have just decided to get back into it in the form of cyder. I spent a day pushing my plethora of James Greave apples through my Kenwood juicer and finiished up with 5 1/2 to 6 gallons of juice. This is in a proper fermentation bin with an airlock in the top. I purchased Michael Pooley's book "Real Cidermaking" to get up and running. I added 1/4 teaspoon of metabisulphite to the juice to kill the wild yeasts, tested the OG which was 1005 and added 1/2 Kg icing sugar to bring it up a bit. Now here is where I may have made my mistake. I then added (straight after stirring in the sulphite) a 5g packet of cider yeast. Also the packet said pour the yeast onto the top and wait 15 mins then stir in, well I just poured it in a stirred it (must be an age thing). It is now day 3 and I cannot see any bubbles coming through the air lock. I must admit it does smell fermenty around the area of the bins airlock (plastic 6 spheres type) but I seem to remember that fermentation was fairly rapid after 3 days. Am I panicing unduly as I haven't lifted the lid to have a look or should I do something as I am worried of ruining all that juice and work.
regards
Greg

 

[Clann]

You should take a gravity reading to see if fermentation has started. Your bin may not have a good seal allowing Co2 to escape from under the lid instead of out of the air lock.

 

[Badgerballs]

You should take a gravity reading to see if fermentation has started. Your bin may not have a good seal allowing Co2 to escape from under the lid instead of out of the air lock.

Ah great. Can you give me some pointers as to what I would expect to read on my hydrometer. Stupidly I didn't take a reading after I added the sugar so I only know the pre sugar reading of 1005. Also if I take of the top will I run the risk of bacteria getting in and if not I take it I should see the top sort of foamy.
regards
Greg

 

[dinnerstick]

are you sure you don't mean 1050? 1005 is almost nothing; 1050 is in the normal range for apple juice. you can expect a final gravity at or just below 1000. it may or may not be foamy if fermenting, but my juicer ciders are almost always foamy. sulfite shouldn't kill off the pitched yeast, and as it does dissipate in time you could re-pitch now if you wanted to be certain. i have had ciders that take a few days to get going though. don't fear infecting it too much at this early stage, many ciders and wines are fermented in open vessels, once the yeast get going it will be fine, and you should of course be clean and careful after primary fermentation to prevent infection and oxidation.

 

[Pappers_]

. . . sulfite shouldn't kill off the pitched yeast, and as it does dissipate in time you could re-pitch now if you wanted to be certain . . . .

That's what I was thinking about, also, DS - if Badger added the metabisulfite and then immediately pitched the yeast. I've always waited 24 hours before pitching the yeast, and if Badger didn't, the metabisulfite would knock down the yeast perhaps.

If it were me, I'd pitch another packet of yeast now.

 

[Badgerballs]

are you sure you don't mean 1050? 1005 is almost nothing; 1050 is in the normal range for apple juice. you can expect a final gravity at or just below 1000. it may or may not be foamy if fermenting, but my juicer ciders are almost always foamy. sulfite shouldn't kill off the pitched yeast, and as it does dissipate in time you could re-pitch now if you wanted to be certain. i have had ciders that take a few days to get going though. don't fear infecting it too much at this early stage, many ciders and wines are fermented in open vessels, once the yeast get going it will be fine, and you should of course be clean and careful after primary fermentation to prevent infection and oxidation.

OOp's absolutely right it was 1050.
regards

 

[Badgerballs]

That's what I was thinking about, also, DS - if Badger added the metabisulfite and then immediately pitched the yeast. I've always waited 24 hours before pitching the yeast, and if Badger didn't, the metabisulfite would knock down the yeast perhaps.

If it were me, I'd pitch another packet of yeast now.

OK if I pitch another yeast now should do I run a risk of it tainting the taste of the cider?
I have a 5g packet of cider yeast and it says pour onto the top wait 15mins and then stir in. Is this correct?
I have just taken of the lid and there is a brown crust over the top with a small area in the center of whitish fizzy bubbles so that looks like it could be fermenting what do you reckon?

 

[TimsfamousCider]

Instead of pitching it directly, make a yeast starter. Basically the idea is that you get the yeast doing it's job before you drop it into your cider.

There are many variations but here is mine.

Take a small sterile bowl, add some Luke warm water or juice. Too hot and it will kill the yeast. Go for 90 degrees F not Celsius. Or if you don't have a way to measure make sure it is cooler than your body temperature. Much above 98F and it will kill the yeast.

Then add a couple of spoonfuls of sugar. Doesn't matter what kind, as long as it is fermentable.

Give a good stir and put it where it is warm covered with plastic wrap to keep junk out. I usually put it in the oven WITH THE OVEN OFF and turn on the oven light. The light will keep it about 85F which is good for starting yeast.

After 3 or 4 hours, you should have a good foamy starter ready to pitch.

Make sure you remove enough volume from your cider so that you can add the starter.

By the next morning you should see some fermentation.

As a side note I always use a starter, it just let's me know everything is working yeast wise before I pitch it.

 

[Accidic]

I use store-bought apple juice with a dash of dap for all my wine/cider starters and they do quite well. That said unless I misread it it seems moderately low gravity so unless your yeast weren't viable I would bet on just a slow start. Personally if I did repitch I would give it a few days then go with a different yeast in case your current one is having trouble with the sulfites.

 

[seabass07]

OK if I pitch another yeast now should do I run a risk of it tainting the taste of the cider?
I have a 5g packet of cider yeast and it says pour onto the top wait 15mins and then stir in. Is this correct?
I have just taken of the lid and there is a brown crust over the top with a small area in the center of whitish fizzy bubbles so that looks like it could be fermenting what do you reckon?

Sounds like you have fermentation to me. The brown crust is yeast and the bubbles are co2. You could still take a hydrometer reading. If it's fermenting, it will be lower than your starting gravity. Adding more yeast at this point wouldn't mess up the cider, but I don't think it's necessary.

 

[Badgerballs]

Well how weird is that? I took the screw top off and had a look screwed it back on and it is fermenting through the airlock like the clappers. It must have been leaking out of the lid even thought it was tight. I cannot see any other reason as I cannot see that letting air in would cause it. Still there we go all seems well now.
Thanks for the help.
Books are OK but there always seems to be a lack of info when things don't work as planned.
regards

 

[Pappers_]

Great! Glad the yeasties are getting down to work for you!