Help identifying recurring off flavour?

[mattsearle]

I hate reading these types of posts as I figure it's hard to describe a flavour, but here goes....

Out of 10 or so brews now, most have been pretty good. Two, however, have had a certain taste that spoil them somewhat. It a kind of sweetness, but one that kind of hits you with a tang at the end of the flavour profile. In both brews my final gravity has been hit, so I don't think it's to do with under attenuation. In both brews, also, the finished colour has been quite a bit darker than beersmith had predicted, so I don't know if perhaps this sweetness is a result if using too much crystal malt for the pale malt ratio perhaps, & that for some reason beersmith is predicting differently to what I am achieving?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, as sadly both of these brews have been ones I've been really optimistic about!

 

[friarsmith]

Check out this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=283704

Possible solutions (not sure of your situation)
1. Add only half of your malt extract at the beginning of the boil. Add the rest later in the boil. This will help w/ hops utilization too
2. Do a full wort boil rather than boiling a few gallons and adding water in the fermenter.
3. Reassess your water. See Martin's suggestion in the link above.

 

[mattsearle]

Check out this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=283704

Possible solutions (not sure of your situation)
1. Add only half of your malt extract at the beginning of the boil. Add the rest later in the boil. This will help w/ hops utilization too
2. Do a full wort boil rather than boiling a few gallons and adding water in the fermenter.
3. Reassess your water. See Martin's suggestion in the link above.

Apologies I should have said, this is all grain.

 

[BrewSRQ]

What yeast? Any sort of temp control?

 

[slym2none]

I hate reading these types of posts as I figure it's hard to describe a flavour, but here goes....

Out of 10 or so brews now, most have been pretty good. Two, however, have had a certain taste that spoil them somewhat. It a kind of sweetness, but one that kind of hits you with a tang at the end of the flavour profile. In both brews my final gravity has been hit, so I don't think it's to do with under attenuation. In both brews, also, the finished colour has been quite a bit darker than beersmith had predicted, so I don't know if perhaps this sweetness is a result if using too much crystal malt for the pale malt ratio perhaps, & that for some reason beersmith is predicting differently to what I am achieving?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, as sadly both of these brews have been ones I've been really optimistic about!

For me, that kind of gave it away that this was an AG brew.

 

[mattsearle]

What yeast? Any sort of temp control?

One brew was us-05, the other was saflager w-34-70.
I'm wondering now if perhaps brewing a small batch, say 1 gallon, of a very pale, quite dry beer and blending it would correct the sweet flavour & also the colour somewhat?after tasting some more, it's kind of like the back end sweetness of a tripel or something m, but obviously way out of character for the lager that my most recent brew is, or a pale that my first one was? It still has a few weeks of lagering to go, but the last brew that had this flavour still had it when I tried one a year later so I can't imagine lagering will correct it.

 

[McKnuckle]

You didn't answer the temp control question. Could the sweetness be fruitiness due to unwanted yeast esters, causes by temp swings or too high/low fermentation during the first couple days of primary?

 

[bransona]

Yeast can definitely create their own "sweetness" (see also: fermentis s-33), especially when temp controls are used or misused in certain ways. Also, how is your mash ph? I've found that I can't get mine in the right area (gotta get some salts to fix this) and it leaves me with a fairly sweet backend on some brews, particularly ipas from the lack of roasted malts.

 

[mattsearle]

You didn't answer the temp control question. Could the sweetness by fruitiness due to unwanted yeast esters, causes by temp swings or too high/low fermentation during the first couple days of primary?

Apologies, the first brew (the pale) was a long time ago before I had any temp control, but this latest one, the lager, was in a ferm fridge at 53 deg for 2 weeks, followed by a diacytel rest.

 

[mattsearle]

Yeast can definitely create their own "sweetness" (see also: fermentis s-33), especially when temp controls are used or misused in certain ways. Also, how is your mash ph? I've found that I can't get mine in the right area (gotta get some salts to fix this) and it leaves me with a fairly sweet backend on some brews, particularly ipas from the lack of roasted malts.

Mash PH is something that I've not yet started looking at in my brews, but perhaps I should be?

 

[bransona]

Mash PH is something that I've not yet started looking at in my brews, but perhaps I should be?

http://beersmith.com/blog/2015/05/07/mash-ph-and-why-it-matters-for-all-grain-beer-brewing/

I do biab, so it's a fairly loose mash. I think I'm gonna switch my mashing method to one that can be stiffer. I'll put the bag in my fermenting bucket and mash in there. That will allow a stiffer mash than my original one vessel single infusion, then I can just do an actual mashout instead of batch sparging. The stiffer mash should significantly lower the pH. If it doesn't fix it, I'll get salts (calcium, I think). Maybe this is your problem as well?

 

[McKnuckle]

A high mash pH, which is easy to suffer from when brewing light colored beers with many water sources, can result in some unpleasant flavors. Astringent, bitter (not hoppy), soapy, and tang are some useful descriptors.