Posted this in a different forum, but did not get any response. Thought I would try it here also. I am looking to get a ro filter for my brewing water only. Not sure where to start. Would like some input from those of you that have one. Pros/cons of brands, and availability of replacement filters. Would like to keep the cost down if possible.
Help choosing a ro system
- Thread starter jigtwins
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Surprised you haven't gotten any responses yet!
Myself, and I would wager many others, would recommend the iSpring RO systems:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XELTTG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I'll let you do your own research, but they are hard to beat for my money. I have one, so feel free to ask any questions.
Myself, and I would wager many others, would recommend the iSpring RO systems:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XELTTG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I'll let you do your own research, but they are hard to beat for my money. I have one, so feel free to ask any questions.
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I have a 5 stage from bulkreefsupply.com and LOVE it.
That would be a full Di system wouldn't it? Do you buy your chemical additives in bulk?
I use a Kent 4 stage and pull my water prior to the DI resin
To the OP : filters are filters, they're 10 a penny ($50+) on lots of Saltwater Fish/Reef forums.
Cartridges are generally standard sizes and 99% interchangeable.
IMO, you do not need the DI addition so could go with 10u, 5u, 1u+carbon, RO Membrane
I have the 4 stage RO from bulkreefsupply- and it's been great. I still haven't even needed to change the filters and I've had it a couple of years.
It would depend on your water, of course, but mine is high in bicarb and it takes care of that with a 75 gpd rating. I can fill my HLT in about 6 hours (14 gallons).
I paid $119 a couple of years ago, and I think it's more like $139 now on their site.
It would depend on your water, of course, but mine is high in bicarb and it takes care of that with a 75 gpd rating. I can fill my HLT in about 6 hours (14 gallons).
I paid $119 a couple of years ago, and I think it's more like $139 now on their site.
Not to hijack the Ops thread but with RO systems you end up with large volumes of waste water, correct?
Do you repropose this water or do you have large water bills?
Do you repropose this water or do you have large water bills?
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Bilsch
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I have a Hydrologics Evolution system typically sold for hydroponics.
Its a reasonably priced system and you cant argue with the Wardlabs report. And this was with 2 year old membranes.
pH 6.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 8
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.01
Cations / Anions, me/L 0.1 / < 0.1
ppm
Sodium, Na 1
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 1
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 3
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S < 1
Chloride, Cl < 1
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 < 1
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 < 1
Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
Its a reasonably priced system and you cant argue with the Wardlabs report. And this was with 2 year old membranes.
pH 6.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 8
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.01
Cations / Anions, me/L 0.1 / < 0.1
ppm
Sodium, Na 1
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 1
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 3
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S < 1
Chloride, Cl < 1
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 < 1
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 < 1
Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
I sometimes put the waste water tubing into my washer, and then just add borax and washing soda to the detergent for washing clothes. Or, water plants with the waste water- they don't seem to mind.
There is a LOT of waste water- maybe 4 gallons to every one gallon of RO(?) so in an area with water restrictions or with water availability issues, I wouldn't do this.
Ah yes, RO membranes..., OP -> The RO membranes are interchangeable as well, they start at maybe 10gallons per day and up to 100gallons per day. With these, you will need a way to discharge "gray water". My water is good to start with so I only throw away about 1.5:1 gray to good water
Wrong as usual!
Yes, RO is a high-waste method of water filtration. However, when used to produce a high amount of filtered water at once (i.e. fill a 14 gal HLT), the waste is greatly minimized. The issue is when you have, say, a RO faucet near your sink that you fill single glasses from.
OP
OP
jigtwins
Well-Known Member
Thank you all for the quick response and wealth of information. I have been searching the web for a few hours today reading about,and comparing different systems. Good to know the filters are easy to get and not brand specific. I will have to check out reef supply too.
I've read the use of a permeable pump take a 4:1 waste ratio down to 1:1 and increases efficiency of the membrane as well.
Another $150 in Amex points and I will be buying this for the house for drinking water. This adds some minerals back which I've also heard to be good for us.
Home Master TMAFC-ERP Artesian Full Contact Undersink RO System with Permeate Pump
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N2941T2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Home Master TMAFC-ERP Artesian Full Contact Undersink RO System with Permeate Pump
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N2941T2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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I went simple and cheap.
Aquatic Life RO Buddie Three Stage Reverse Osmosis, 50-Gallon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DOG63OY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I use a Lowe's bucket outfitted with a float valve to catch the filtered water. The float valve cuts the water off and I empty the bucket a couple of times into my kettle to collect it. I just run the waste line outside to water the plants.
Aquatic Life RO Buddie Three Stage Reverse Osmosis, 50-Gallon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DOG63OY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I use a Lowe's bucket outfitted with a float valve to catch the filtered water. The float valve cuts the water off and I empty the bucket a couple of times into my kettle to collect it. I just run the waste line outside to water the plants.
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dcrog
Well-Known Member
AquaFX Barracuda RO/DI Units
This is one brand I won't recommend. I bought the unit many years ago complete with pressure tank and faucet for kitchen sink. I worked great until the housing decided to split for no good reason. Good thing the wife was home or it would have flooded the entire house.
Shut the water off to it and let it hang in the utility room for several years and finally started home brewing. Went to use the other filters for a carbon filter and on first use another housing split.
I just use the bracket to hold a couple of filters I bought at home depot or lowes, I don't remember which right now, for a sediment and carbon filter.
This is one brand I won't recommend. I bought the unit many years ago complete with pressure tank and faucet for kitchen sink. I worked great until the housing decided to split for no good reason. Good thing the wife was home or it would have flooded the entire house.
Shut the water off to it and let it hang in the utility room for several years and finally started home brewing. Went to use the other filters for a carbon filter and on first use another housing split.
I just use the bracket to hold a couple of filters I bought at home depot or lowes, I don't remember which right now, for a sediment and carbon filter.
The wasting rate for household RO units is fairly high since they are designed to work with most water supplies. The type of ionic content and total content (TDS) of the raw water affect what that wasting rate needs to be to reduce scaling (clogging) of the membrane. While I have the modeling tools needed to evaluate how low the wasting rate can be reduced to based on the raw water quality, most would not. So most are stuck with the high wasting rate. But for those of you that feed your RO system with ion-exchange softened water, you could probably reduce the wasting rate quite a bit. For the industrial RO systems I design, accounting for the raw water quality and reducing the wasting rate to the degree possible, is important for efficiency.
For home systems, all you need is 3 stages: particulate filter, carbon filter, and RO membrane. Anything more than that is just fluff. Dual particulate filters (5 and 10 micron) are not necessary for most municipal water systems since the raw water probably has few particulates. The other good thing about particulate filters is that as they fill with sediment, they typically filter even better. The downside is that the pressure drop may become excessive. The home RO membranes do have a minimum supply pressure requirement and excessive head loss through the particulate filter may violate that. Its too bad that systems don't come with pressure gauges on each side of the particulate filter to give an indication when the filter is too clogged.
Carbon filters are necessary to remove chlorine compounds from municipal water supplies. If you are on a well, you don't really need a carbon filter unless there are organic tastes or odors in the well water. Carbon is actually consumed when chlorine compounds contact the carbon. So there is a stoichiometric relationship to how quickly your carbon filter is used up, but there are too many variables to quantify that. So we are pretty much left with testing the water after its gone through the carbon filter to assure that its still removing the chlorine compounds. Its too bad that home systems don't come with a sample tap on the line between the carbon filter and the RO membrane so that we could collect a sample for Total Chlorine testing.
Enough! That summary gives you an idea of the basic needs for a RO system. I don't know about that AquaFX unit, but most units available today are constructed out of generic parts that everybody uses. If the AquaFX unit uses proprietary housings or filters, that may be a reason that it failed. There is no reason for the generic parts to fail since they tend to have the same specification. The one thing I do caution is to check your water supply pressure. There are plenty of places where the pressure can be over 100 psi. The general rule of thumb for water supplies into houses is that the pressure fall in the range of 60 to 80 psi. High pressure can crack housings.
For home systems, all you need is 3 stages: particulate filter, carbon filter, and RO membrane. Anything more than that is just fluff. Dual particulate filters (5 and 10 micron) are not necessary for most municipal water systems since the raw water probably has few particulates. The other good thing about particulate filters is that as they fill with sediment, they typically filter even better. The downside is that the pressure drop may become excessive. The home RO membranes do have a minimum supply pressure requirement and excessive head loss through the particulate filter may violate that. Its too bad that systems don't come with pressure gauges on each side of the particulate filter to give an indication when the filter is too clogged.
Carbon filters are necessary to remove chlorine compounds from municipal water supplies. If you are on a well, you don't really need a carbon filter unless there are organic tastes or odors in the well water. Carbon is actually consumed when chlorine compounds contact the carbon. So there is a stoichiometric relationship to how quickly your carbon filter is used up, but there are too many variables to quantify that. So we are pretty much left with testing the water after its gone through the carbon filter to assure that its still removing the chlorine compounds. Its too bad that home systems don't come with a sample tap on the line between the carbon filter and the RO membrane so that we could collect a sample for Total Chlorine testing.
Enough! That summary gives you an idea of the basic needs for a RO system. I don't know about that AquaFX unit, but most units available today are constructed out of generic parts that everybody uses. If the AquaFX unit uses proprietary housings or filters, that may be a reason that it failed. There is no reason for the generic parts to fail since they tend to have the same specification. The one thing I do caution is to check your water supply pressure. There are plenty of places where the pressure can be over 100 psi. The general rule of thumb for water supplies into houses is that the pressure fall in the range of 60 to 80 psi. High pressure can crack housings.
If you have enough pressure you can hook up the drain of the ro membrane into the input of a second ro membrane. This essentially doubles the output while cutting waste water drastically.
I decided to go with the SpectraPure CSP-90-AF unit for my brew room. The unit discharges about a gallon of waste water for every gallon of RO water it makes and after a year of use the sediment filter is still a clean as the first day I used it. I like it and use it a lot for making drinking and brewing water, for both coffee and beer.
FWIW, some of the units for salt water aren't certified for drinking water.
Bryggeri
Well-Known Member
+1 for bulk reef supply. Added the 150 gallon upgraded, which is a second RO on the output of the first, I get my 26 gallon in a few hours, rejection rate in the 1.25:1 range. The waste goes in a rain collection barrel, which is then run through counter flow chiller first pass at ambient, back to rain barrel, then second through immersion in ice bath and out to plants. Being in So Cal with our water restriction , we need to be creative with water reuse.
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Honestly, I've never timed it. I just start collecting water a couple days beforehand. Turn it on when I get home from work, collect a buckets worth, turn it off before going to bed, repeat the the next. If I were to guess it'd be around 2 gallons an hour or so. Takes a couple evenings to get enough for my 6 gallon batches.
A system with those small filters is not really a good idea. That low price is a false economy. Find a similar system with the larger 10-inch filter cartridges and it will pay off in the long run.
dcrog
Well-Known Member
My water supply remains about 60 to 65 PSI, if I remember correctly. The AquaFX unit uses the standard cartridges for the sediment/carbon filters but I believe their housings are proprietary. Both cracked right around the O ring portion.
As I said the first one was hanging in the utility room behind the dryer so it was next to impossible for it to be bumped or smacked. When I finally got into home brewing I unhooked the RO filter and was just going from particulate to carbon. Before I could get my first batch filtered another housing broke. This time hanging on the garage wall with an RV hose feeding it and the output wide open on the 1/4" line. So I can't believe the pressure was too great.
I bought this system back when I kept Reef Tanks. It worked great, until it didn't. It's just the sudden didn't part that bothered me.
As I said the first one was hanging in the utility room behind the dryer so it was next to impossible for it to be bumped or smacked. When I finally got into home brewing I unhooked the RO filter and was just going from particulate to carbon. Before I could get my first batch filtered another housing broke. This time hanging on the garage wall with an RV hose feeding it and the output wide open on the 1/4" line. So I can't believe the pressure was too great.
I bought this system back when I kept Reef Tanks. It worked great, until it didn't. It's just the sudden didn't part that bothered me.
dcrog
Well-Known Member
If you do the math, which won't be 100% accurate, the fifty gallon per day comes out to about 2 gallons per hour.
http://www.homebrewfilters.com/brew-water-filters.html
What are the opinion on the ones these people sell???
I'm building a 1 barrel electric system and don't want to use the tap water plus economically can't afford to use bottled drinking water by the gallon anymore.
Mabrungard ....... your thoughts on them?
Got any links to what you consider decent for somebody needing 35 gallons at a time ( starting the thing a day or 2 ahead of time isn't an issue)
What are the opinion on the ones these people sell???
I'm building a 1 barrel electric system and don't want to use the tap water plus economically can't afford to use bottled drinking water by the gallon anymore.
Mabrungard ....... your thoughts on them?
Got any links to what you consider decent for somebody needing 35 gallons at a time ( starting the thing a day or 2 ahead of time isn't an issue)
